On the (supposed) omissions/changes for season five. (Warning Book/Show Spoilers)

[A Mulligan Of Ice And Fire]

So I've been reading up on some season 5 news (as I'm sure a good chunk of you have also), such as casting, story decisions, and all that stuff. That said, I'm fond about some things, and not so fond of others.

For one I'm not happy at all about the exclusion of the Ironborn from this season. I know it's not the most popular of the story arcs, but I happen to be a fan of the whole Kingsmoot story line, as well as Victarion's and by association, Euron's. I especially like the Ironborn arc wayyyyy more than the Dorne arc, which I found to be boring up until the Oakheart/Hotah showdown. And don't get me wrong, I know there's only so much you can put into a television show, but what are they gonna do when the story calls for Victarion to be in Meereen? For Asha/Yara escaping to Deepwood Motte and getting overtaken by Stannis? Yes the story can be reworked (Euron going himself instead of Victarion, or Yara was still fighting her father's war and took DM at the time), but to just seemingly leave the entire chunk of the story out is a huge mistake in my opinion, especially with TWoW coming sooner or later. Hopefully it isn't cut for good, and might show up in Season 6 somehow.

The second thing I have an issue with is that Lady Stoneheart may be cut from the show entirely. Now this one I take with a grain of salt, cause I still think it's very possible that she may appear in season 5. If not though, then you might as well throw Brienne's story line in the garbage, because LS is by far the most interesting part of it. The best way to do this, in my opinion, would be to just have her make a cameo in the beginning of the season, or the very end. They honestly don't have to do anything other than that. If they choose to not do it this season though, then I'm curious about how much Lady Stark has decayed to the point of being unrecognizable. Also what was the point of introducing The BWB if not for her story? I guess to show that resurrection exists (for when a certain Lord Commander gets stabbed). To me that's just a waste of a fairly interesting plot point surely to become more developed in TWoW.

Another thing that really grinds my gears is the possible lack of characters that are supposed to be introduced. Where's Arianne? Quentyn? Griff and Young Griff? Yes I suppose it's possible that they are all there and haven't been announced yet, but what if that's not the case? For me, that may ruin the show. While I'm not crazy over Arianne, I did actually enjoy Quentyn (I know I know, most people didn't care for him, but by the 7, Meereen needs more players). And I probably don't have to stress how important the Griff and Young Griff story is (going by Peter Dinklage's set photos, it actually looks as though they might cut it).

The only thing I'm actually okay with so far is the decision to send Jaime to Dorne. This is, of course, as long as it doesn't interfere with his ending in ADWD. I found his "cleanup the land after the war" story to be a little lackluster, so sending him to Dorne to meet the SandSnakes, Doran, and Areo Hotah could be fun. It would also make for an easier transition for getting to know the Dornish characters. It looks as if Bronn will be going with him too (and more Bronn= more fun). I have a theory that Bronn is either going to play the role of either Arys Oakheart, in a new sort of way, or he'll continue to play Ilyn Payne's role like last season. We'll see though.

Again I understand there's only so much that can be included for TV, but to possibly cut that much from the books out really irks the crap out of me. What do you guys think though? I'm eager to hear how other people feel about this whole thing.

[Rrachel]

I totally agree with you.

I'm curious of how they will manage the story without important characters as Arianne and Quentyn, as a book reader I really wish they have casted them and are just hiding them from us haha, but either way, is true that the books get more complicated and showing all that richness on a TV show is almost impossible. I'm sure though, that the changes they've made will create great tv episodes for all the audience... and even if it gets really different compared to the book, I'm still anxious to watch it.

[Roose is Azor Ahai]

IRONBORN - House Greyjoy, King Euron the Third, Victarion, no Aeron

I think Euron will be properly introduced in Season 6, along with Victarion who just appears at Meereen, but they'll mention him in Season 5. Next season, they can have Yara return to Pyke, and someone telling him that Balon is dead and Euron rules now and has sent Victarion after the dragons. Yara escapes, knowing Euron would propably kill her and get's captured by STANNIS. I would like some Damphair, but they can cut him.

Or, they have already cast Euron this season and just keep it under wraps. Or more importantly, Euron is truly Daario :P

Conclusion: Euron and Vic in Season 6, both mentioned in S5, no Aeron

DORNE - House Martell, Prince Doran, Trystane - Myrcella soap opera, no Arianne nor Quentyn

I can't understand why they must include TRYSTANE and THREE Sand Snakes and that !@#$%^&* Malko, if they are not going to have :drool: Arianne :drool: Martell :drool: in it. While I understand that they can't cast all the characters, why cast Yezzan? He dies and is not very important, apart from slaving Tyrion. Why cast this new dude Malko, who's not even in the books? Only thing he has done in the books is to marry Myrcella. Arianne has many reasons why they should include her. They want to show sex, boobs, "strong" women, boobs, more female major players and boobs. Arianne is described as very very sexy woman and she has sex scenes. They should include her.

For me, Dorne was boring, except Doran's FIre and Blood revelation. Ser Arys was dull, Sand Snakes were exciting, but now that I've seen them on the show, they look nothing alike. Obara is supposed to be ugly and brutish, not beautiful. Why is Nymeria asian? Why is Tyene Ellaria's child, not septa's? And why are they all pale white? Doran, Oberyn and Ellaria at least looked like dornishmen.

Since they will turn Dorne into a even lamer than it was in the books, I doubt it will be good. Quentyn's only purpose was to free the dragons, which can be done other ways. Or they might reveal that Trystane in the show is secretly Aegon.

Conclusion: Trystane loves Myrcella and tries to make her queen and fails, Doran reveals his plans, Trystane is secretly fAegon, no Arianne or Quentyn

GRIFF - Aegon VI and JonCon under the wraps

I think they will make an appearance, but are kept under the wraps. If they don't, I will be furious, since doesn't that kinda reveal that he is not real (which we already doubt) and more importantly, not a major player in the end game?

Conclusion: Griffs are kept under the wraps or are cut

LADY STONEHEART - Brotherhood without Banners, Brienne and Jaime

No idea. :dunno:

[mdw4950]

i still think that well see stoneheart in the show. they could easily just have thoros give a quick explanation of whats been going on. well, theyd have to because at this point cat would be waaay too decayed to bring back if they did it in real time. theyd have to change brienne and jaimes arc pretty drastically if they dont bother with stoneheart. i know they needed to write the hound off but having brienne give him the injuries also plays right into her lie to jaime about needing his help to rescue sansa from sandor.

main thing that im starting to get worried about, and a lot of other people too, is that the show is giving away big plot points before theyre even shown or written. if the greyjoys, aegon and stoneheart do get completely excluded then its basically telling everyone they arent major players in the ending.

[0LordCommanderSnow0]

This is my first post ever so bear with me aha.

The more I read of season 5 the more I worry. As for the ironborn I personally love them but I realize they were mostly a hit or miss for A Feast For Crows readers. To me Victarion and Euron's story line and characters are incredibly interesting and seem very important for the next two books. I would say its possible to introduce them in season 6 but D&D plan on having 7 seasons. Would they place them into the story in the second to last season with so much more stories to focus on? If they are cut for season 5 which I think they are hopefully the last shot of the season or scene in the finale is Balon falling to his death (If that is what happened, I have my doubts aha). My hope before I heard they were being cut was for them to follow the novels story starting with the kingsmoot and ending with Victarion off to find Daenerys, but hey you don't always get what you want.

The dornish story I enjoy but not as much as the ironborn. It seems to me that there story will be very different. I hate the exclusion of Arianne not entirely because of her character but what she represents being a woman and the heir to Sunspear by dornish law. It's so different from what were used to and adds another layer to the show, I cant even think of why they cut her. I see introducing Quentyn in season 6 entirely plausible though with how it is in the books. Honestly I just think we all want to the fire and blood revelation sooo bad aha that was badass.

Griff and Young Griff I hope as well are just held secret right now and will be revealed in season 5. Introducing them in Tyrion's story line would be much better then just having them randomly show up in season 5 or 6.

Lady Stoneheart I do think will be in next season most likely the finale and just held under wraps, fingers crossed.

But most of all for season five I want them to at least mention some of the many prophecies of the books

[The Mountain That Flies]

A couple of things;

1. When you actually break it down, most of Victarion's stuff could be established pretty easily while he's en route to Mereen, as I believe someone stated above, so he could easily be brought in early in season 6. We could see the kingsmoot from Asha's eyes at any random point (which would help immediately establish Euron as a credible threat to show viewers) and be halfway through ADWD. While some very exciting things exist in the Iron islands plot, they can be condensed pretty easily.

2. Arianne being cut does seem extremely odd, but since her plot functions could be completely taken over by the Sand Snakes (who as Oberyn's daughters are going to come into the series with more viewer credibility anyway), you have to ask whether it's worth the time to just see her personal growth.

3. We have no idea what Young Griff's future holds in the books. While we are all imagining a Dance 2.0, the kid could die of a greyscale outbreak before Dany even makes it as far as Volantis. The text certainly hints at her burning away his lie, but it's also possible he's not her final fight, which may be all the show's schedule has time to set up. if D&D really are looking to have the whole thing wrapped up in 7 seasons, Aegon may be a necessary casualty.

I may be one of the few people who enjoyed the Damphair's chapters (the moment of his faith breaking in the kingsmoot is a highlight of AFFC for me), and I remain very intruiged by both Arianne and Jon Con's character arcs. That said, we're going to lose a lot more of the source before the show is finished, and since we don't know exactly where all the stories are going it's a bit hard to judge what is and is not a worthwhile cut.

[alcasinoroyale]

If they are keeping Arianne, Quentyn, Young Griff, Griff, Euron, Victarion, Aeron, Stoneheart and Wyman all under wraps, I will personally crush D&D's skulls mountain style. Not really, but they have to include at least one of those characters in Season 5. They have included all the POV character from the books so far, so I don't understand why they would find it necessary to not include these characters.

[Lord Hyrule]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/charles-dance-drops-hint-about-game-of-thrones-season-5/

I've always found this piece of information interesting. Could season five contain quite a bit of flashbacks?

I read somewhere else (sorry I don't have source) that GRRM said something along the lines of there being two really big battles..

What if they flashback to Roberts rebellion?

Either this season or the next, they have to omit things and take it slow. Book 7 might not come out for years, and since the show is an amazing show, I'm sure they want to milk it.

Maybe one season flashbacks, one season AFFC, then one season ADWD and so on.

[FreeParking]

They are doing seven seasons. They cannot wait for GRRM to finish the books, because he may never finish. He has already mentioned the possibility of an eighth book. One entire season of flashbooks is an awful idea for more reasons than I can count. One season each for AFFC and ADWD is almost as bad of an idea. The show will finish before the books. Period. The only question is when TWOW is released.

[ADanceWithCats]

It will be absolutely sweet once Season 5 finishes and the type of post that goes 'they have to delay the show to let the books catch up' disappears.

Wait. That will only happen once Season 6 finishes. But at least Season 5 will let the type of posts that go 'AFFC/ADWD will take two seasons' gently fall into the darkness.

[Holly of Harrenhal]

But if they leave all this out, what are we left with??

[Neidio]

But if they leave all this out, what are we left with??

Sex and violence. The viewers can't be confused with complicated relations, secrets and multi step plots.

[thomk121]

Jamie finds aegon in dorne with darkstar

[sj4iy]

Not judging until I see it...and then, it will only be on the terms of how it worked or didn't work in the show, and will have nothing to do with how much I liked or dislike it in the books. They are different media and require different approaches.

[ADanceWithCats]

But if they leave all this out, what are we left with??

A very good season that finishes its arcs?

Euron will probably be a player in Book/Season 6, so he'll be introduced then (when he attacks the Reach). The Brienne/Jaime/LSH arc has only just started in the books - my guess is, if they introduced it this season, it would be as slow as Bran's in S1-4, one arc spread over two seasons. Again, better pack it into one. Griff/Young Griff? They also really haven't done anything of note yet. Took a castle in the middle of nowhere. Big deal.

The show will kill off some characters, shift the position of others and... things will happen. If there's to be a new Dance of Dragons, the show will show it. If Jaime and Brienne are to meet again, the show will show it. If Oldtown/the Reach is to be destroyed, the show will show it. You're too impatient.

[yxalitis]

Sex and violence. The viewers can't be confused with complicated relations, secrets and multi step plots.

Don't be a book snob!

A TV series is one of the most difficult mediums to write for, and I would suggest without evidence that GoT attracts viewers of a more cerebral nature.

The show is rife with secrets, multiple plots, and complicated relations...seriously dude get over yourself!

And yes, I've read the damn books too.

[sj4iy]

Sex and violence. The viewers can't be confused with complicated relations, secrets and multi step plots.

Yeah, it's certainly strange how they didn't trust the viewers enough to actually show that it was Littlefinger who had Lysa poison Jon Arryn.

Or how they totally made it where it wasn't Littlefinger who had the necklace made, had an obscure person deliver it to Sansa and had Olenna drop it in Joffrey's wine. I mean, no tv viewer would have been smart enough to catch all that, so the show didn't even try.

Oh, wait...

[yxalitis]

On topic...I do not care one way or the other if the remove sections of the book.

The writers have proven countless times they know what they are doing.

If you disagree, you're in the wrong part of this forum

Greyjoys?

Why do we assume this was cut?

Far (FAR) more likely it's been recast with existing characters. we know Asha, they will use her far more than her scant appearances in the novels.

Balon hasn't even died in the TV shows...right?

The entirety of the Ironborn plot can be distilled down to a few key events.

And (controversial time now):

Victarion, Moqorro, Aeron, Euron?

Who?

No, stop for a second, explain to me why we need these 4 characters?

To what end?

What plot point? To send a fleet of ships to Mereen?

Why connect the ironborn to Mereen at all?

Oh, wait the Dragon Horn...right...

It's season 5,. no one has yet mentioned how to control dragons

To drop that into the story at this late stage is beyond ridiculous.

Lady Stoneheart?

Please, she was barely in the books, mentioned a few times, seen in POV maybe thrice?

We don't know what Brienne intended to do with Jamie in the books, that plotline is unresolved.

in any case, there are a million ways to achieve that result without casting a zombie character.

DORNE - House Martell, Prince Doran, Trystane - Myrcella soap opera, no Arianne nor Quentyn

Arienne! What is the love for this character?

Because she's overtly sexual, and described as beautiful?

Like, we don't have enough of them already in the show...

Quentyn...ugh, worst character in the\ book...!

Actually, he deserves his own thread in the book section!

How many pointless pages were written about this subplot to nowhere?

The whole premise is absurd...let some kid travel halfway across the planet to meet a fabled princess.

How, by pretending to be a wine merchant, then by pretending to join the Windblown intending to abandon them when they reach Mereen, only to be sent in as false turncloaks, only to in fact be false false turncloaks...to meet Dany, to repsent her a faded parchment about some arranged marriage between theor siblings, so let us marry instead...oh, no, sorry, that's a NO then..hmm, maybe if I release the dragons...oh, no, that didn't work...

GAH!!

GRIFF - Aegon VI and JonCon

Pass...what a pointless subplot to introduce in the 5th season..ANOTHER surviving Targaryen..really?

sigh...

[imaginepageant]

I think the Ironborn storyline will be heavily trimmed, with the Kingsmoot and Aeron cut, Euron taking over Victarion's role, but not until season 6. Asha will likely pop up once or twice in season 5, perhaps playing a larger part depending on how far Stannis's arc goes this season.

And I'm praying to the old gods and the new that the Aegon arc is just being postponed until season 6. It makes sense to wait; with a lot of Dornish characters and a Dornish storyline to be introduced, bringing Aegon and friends in at the same time would be too much, and there isn't much for them to do just yet, anyway—we don't need half a season of boating up the Rhoyne.

I'm disappointed with their cutting Arianne, though. I don't see the purpose of cutting a POV character and giving her role to a Sand Snake we saw once in the books. It makes no sense.

And Lady Stoneheart. I was really looking forward to watching the Unsullied's collective minds blown when she was revealed at the end of season 4, but now that's not going to happen since most of them were spoiled by all the articles about her absence that flew around after the finale, so I don't even care whether she shows up or not anymore.

[Razha]

I think when trying to predict the Greyjoys story in next 2 seasons we should look how they were dealt with in the previous seasons:

In Seasons 3 and 4 we were just reminded of the existence of Yara (S03/S04) and Balon (S03) with small scenes. So I they will continue in the same manner in Season 5: we will have just brief appearances of Asha and Balon, including mysterious death of Balon.

It would definitely make more sense to use death of Balon as the opportunity to introduce Euron. But look at Season 4 - After the Balon/Asha scene in Season 3 Finale (message in the box), we could have expected in Season 4 to be treated to an extended trip of Asha to the mainland, with possible (non-canon) meetings/interactions with other characters there, ending with some twist in the finale of S4, to put it shortly, they could have used the story of Asha as a link, as a way to introduce someone or something - but they did not go that way – instead we were given a random sequence in the middle of the season that in my humble opinion would actually make much more sense in the beginning or at the end of the season – leading to the reveal that Theon has been completely broken and Reek-ified. But the producers went the way they thought it would be more appropriate.

What I am trying to say, it could seem more logical to have death of Balon / introduction of Euron in the same season, but I think that it is possible that in Season 5 we will have just a brief scene in the stormy night of Balon discussing some plans with Yara, and afterwards he falls from the bridge in a small thriller scene… then Season 6 begins with announcement of death of Balon and arrival of Euron.