Who controlled Dragonstone, Driftmark and Claw Island before the Valyrians?

[Ratmancampidori]

Who controlled the Targaryen Islands before the Targaryens? It is said that the Valyrians raised a Citadel on Dragonstone 600 years ago, with little resistance from the local lords. The Andals crossed the Narrow Sea in Longships and landed all along the coasts of Westeros. Did the Andals colonize these islands, they could be useful. Dragonstone seems to be one of the few places in Westeros where you can get Obsidian and fishermen are mentioned in the Dragonstone chapters. So any ideas on who ruled Dragonstone before the Valyrians, who do you think would control the islands?

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

Dragonstone was build by the Targs, it was probably some wild place, a lot of places in the Blackwater rush was just spotted with some fisher villages.

[Bironic]

Perhaps there were some small andal settlements there. A few fishers.

[Jaak]

Yes, but Driftmark was bigger.

This was after Storm Kings conquered Riverlands from Teagues, right?

[joluoto2]

Probably some Andal/ First Men fishing villages.

[Ramsay's Penguins]

Crabbs had Crab Isle perhaps?

[Skinner]

From the Wiki:

"The Velaryons traveled to Westeros before the Targaryens, having settled in the island of Driftmark and they claimed that they received the Driftwood Throne from the Merling King to conclude a pact."

Perhaps Deep Ones or Squishers inhabited the islands. They are near Crackclaw Point after all.

[Fire Eater]

The islands were likely ruled by whichever ruled the riverlands. There could have been local lords who were dispossessed given we've seen every island in Westeros being ruled by its own lord who had his seat on the isle.

[Ramsay's Penguins]

Ok so Velaryons had Driftmark quite early. Mootons, Darklyns had towns and ships, so maybe Islands to. Bar Emmons perhaps. Crabbs of Crackclaw for Crab Isle is still say. The Whispers is close, and that is their old seat.

[jet199]

From the Wiki:

"The Velaryons traveled to Westeros before the Targaryens, having settled in the island of Driftmark and they claimed that they received the Driftwood Throne from the Merling King to conclude a pact."

Perhaps Deep Ones or Squishers inhabited the islands. They are near Crackclaw Point after all.

There seem to be a lot of potential Deep One descendants. It wouldn't surprise me if the series ended with some kind of Baratheon/Greyjoy marriage to link these back together.

Vela is latin for a ship's sails so I guess that the Velaryons were always seafarers even before they settled on Driftmark rather than being volcano dwellers like the dragonriding Valyrian families. If so they could well have had family/marriage connections in Westeros which meant they could move in without much fuss especially as they seem to have shared something quite similar to that weird sea religion with the east coast types.

[RumHam]

Dragonstone was build by the Targs

It was built by non-Targaryen Valyrians almost two-hundred years before the Targaryens moved there.

[Archmaester Drew]

There seem to be a lot of potential Deep One descendants. It wouldn't surprise me if the series ended with some kind of Baratheon/Greyjoy marriage to link these back together.

Vela is latin for a ship's sails so I guess that the Velaryons were always seafarers even before they settled on Driftmark rather than being volcano dwellers like the dragonriding Valyrian families. If so they could well have had family/marriage connections in Westeros which meant they could move in without much fuss especially as they seem to have shared something quite similar to that weird sea religion with the east coast types.

House Velaryon are Valyrians that colonized Driftmark -- likely in the last 1000 years, when the Valyrian Freehold established their control of western Essos. The Targaryens came to Dragonstone later (ca. 400 AC). The Islands were likely inhabited by fisherfolk of First Men and Andal descent. :)

[Skinner]

House Velaryon are Valyrians that colonized Driftmark -- likely in the last 1000 years, when the Valyrian Freehold established their control of western Essos. The Targaryens came to Dragonstone later (ca. 400 AC). The Islands were likely inhabited by fisherfolk of First Men and Andal descent. :)

But, as we have already established in the quote from WOIAF, the Velaryons supposedly got their Driftwood Throne from the " Merling King". Merlings->Squishers->Deep Ones. Of course this is a conjecture, but the amount of sightings and evidence (the Three Sisters, Crackclaw Point) is enough to raise a few eyebrows

[Archmaester Drew]

But, as we have already established in the quote from WOIAF, the Velaryons supposedly got their Driftwood Throne from the " Merling King". Merlings->Squishers->Deep Ones. Of course this is a conjecture, but the amount of sightings and evidence (the Three Sisters, Crackclaw Point) is enough to raise a few eyebrows

I suspect the "Merling King" was a local despot, not an actual merling (although, as you note, perhaps with squisher ancestry somewhere in the deep past). The Valyrians did not reach the Narrow Sea until about 1000 years ago after they defeated the Rhoynar. :)

[Skinner]

I suspect the "Merling King" was a local despot, not an actual merling (although, as you note, perhaps with squisher ancestry somewhere in the deep past). The Valyrians did not reach the Narrow Sea until about 1000 years ago after they defeated the Rhoynar. :)

The only reason I believe Squishers or Deep Ones may have live there is the islands closeness to Crackclaw Point, the source of the Squisher legend.

Also, driftwood is a term used in association with two peoples, the Ironborn ( the Driftwood Crown ) and Velaryons ( the Driftwood Throne ). Both had water based origins, the Grey King and the Merling King.

In conclusion, really only want to believe this because I want to witness Targaryens clearing the islands of Deep Ones with dragonfire in the book Fire and Blood. Awesome 😎

[Crowfood's Daughter]

The only reason I believe Squishers or Deep Ones may have live there is the islands closeness to Crackclaw Point, the source of the Squisher legend.

Also, driftwood is a term used in association with two peoples, the Ironborn ( the Driftwood Crown ) and Velaryons ( the Driftwood Throne ). Both had water based origins, the Grey King and the Merling King.

In conclusion, really only want to believe this because I want to witness Targaryens clearing the islands of Deep Ones with dragonfire in the book Fire and Blood. Awesome

This is part of something that I am working on and I agree with you, here is some info from TWOIAF:

"High Tide, to replace the damp, cramped castle Driftmark and house the ancient Driftwood Throne— the high seat of the Velaryons , which legend claims was given to them by the Merling King to conclude a pact. So much trade came to flow to and from Driftmark that the towns of Hull and Spicetown sprang up, becoming the chief ports of trade in Blackwater Bay for a time, surpassing even King’s Landing."

"the salt kings and reavers who made the Sunset Sea their own, men as wild and cruel and fearless as any who have ever lived. Thus we hear of the likes of Torgon the Terrible, Jorl the Whale, Dagon Drumm the necromancer, Hrothgar of Pyke and his kraken-summoning horn, and Ragged Ralf of Old Wyk. Most infamous of all was Balon Blackskin, who fought with an axe in his left hand and a hammer in his right. No weapon made of man could harm him, it was said; swords glanced off and left no mark, and axes shattered against his skin."

Apparently this ancient Kraken horn of the Ironborn has come into the posession of the Celtigars of Claw Island :leer: :

"When I die impoverished, my wives and concubines will curse you, Onion Lord. Lord Celtigar had many fine wines that now I am not tasting, a sea eagle he had trained to fly from the wrist, and a magic horn to summon krakens from the deep. Very useful such a horn would be, to pull down Tyroshi and other vexing creatures. But do I have this horn to blow? No, because the king made my old friend his Hand.” He slipped his arm through Davos’s and said, “The queen’s men love you not, old friend . I am hearing that a certain Hand has been making friends of his own. This is true, yes?”

[Skinner]

This is part of something that I am working on and I agree with you, here is some info from TWOIAF:

"High Tide, to replace the damp, cramped castle Driftmark and house the ancient Driftwood Throne the high seat of the Velaryons , which legend claims was given to them by the Merling King to conclude a pact. So much trade came to flow to and from Driftmark that the towns of Hull and Spicetown sprang up, becoming the chief ports of trade in Blackwater Bay for a time, surpassing even Kings Landing."

"the salt kings and reavers who made the Sunset Sea their own, men as wild and cruel and fearless as any who have ever lived. Thus we hear of the likes of Torgon the Terrible, Jorl the Whale, Dagon Drumm the necromancer, Hrothgar of Pyke and his kraken-summoning horn, and Ragged Ralf of Old Wyk. Most infamous of all was Balon Blackskin, who fought with an axe in his left hand and a hammer in his right. No weapon made of man could harm him, it was said; swords glanced off and left no mark, and axes shattered against his skin."

Apparently this ancient Kraken horn of the Ironborn has come into the posession for the Celtigars:

"When I die impoverished, my wives and concubines will curse you, Onion Lord. Lord Celtigar had many fine wines that now I am not tasting, a sea eagle he had trained to fly from the wrist, and a magic horn to summon krakens from the deep. Very useful such a horn would be, to pull down Tyroshi and other vexing creatures. But do I have this horn to blow? No, because the king made my old friend his Hand. He slipped his arm through Davoss and said, The queens men love you not, old friend . I am hearing that a certain Hand has been making friends of his own. This is true, yes?

You can compare the East Coast and West Coast of Westeros. The Sistermen and Ironborn were both raiders who worshipped foreign gods of the sea.

The Squishers, Sistermen, and Deep Ones of legend both are echoes of Shadows over Innsmouth. The Drowned God seems to have tentacles all over Westeros...

[Ratmancampidori]

Well this topic spiraled in to an interesting direction :D

[Skinner]

Well this topic spiraled in to an interesting direction :D

Just a big Lovecraft fan, the oily black stone piqued my interest.

[Ratmancampidori]

Just a big Lovecraft fan, the oily black stone piqued my interest.

Me too. I'm trying to figure what it all means and it's making my head hurt.