Tywin Manderly Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 And that inbreed bastard demon Joffery that her and Jaime cursed the world with did not help matters. Indeed. He and his antics is the main reason why Jon Arryn started investigating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teemo Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 I don't see how you can justify handing people over to Qyburn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jon Targaryen I Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Well another thing that seemed to have caused the War of Five Kings was Lannister ambitions and influence, this is why the Blackfyre Rebellion seems similar to this war because it was a war caused over legitimacy. Daemon Blackfyre supporters hated the Dornish influence IE Martell influence at court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isobel Harper Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 I think Cersei's fear can be justified. What Cersei does with this fear is her own choice. She can even chose to judge Maggi's prophecy as true or not. But she seems to believe the prophecy to be true, all the more woe to make the prophecy come to light. Cersei is truly her worst enemy in more way than one, though she does not realize it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolf Lord's Daughter Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Yes, it does. The War of the Five Kings is basicly ia succession crisis caused by Cersei not giving Robert trueborn heirs. One child with black hair and blue eyes would have been sufficient to prevent the whole mess. Yep. Cersei and Jaime are the main cause for the Wot5K. Even Lysa and Petyr couldn't have done what they did if Cersei had just had Robert's children. So no, Cersei isn't justified in any of her actions. I mean, how can she justify sending that poor singer and Falyse Stokeworth to Qyburn or planning to kill the innocent Trystane Martell in front of his father. The only time I felt sorry for her was in the walk of Shame because of how disgustingly sexist it was and still wouldn't root for her in any situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acnologia Targaryen Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 No hell NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireAndBlood. Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Yes, it does. The War of the Five Kings is basicly ia succession crisis caused by Cersei not giving Robert trueborn heirs. One child with black hair and blue eyes would have been sufficient to prevent the whole mess. I'm pretty sure that Cersei not giving Robert any trueborn children is something that she and Jaime did together. So you've just proved my point that it doesn't rest on her shoulders. Sure, she has to take her share of blame, but so does Jaime, Ned, Catelyn, Lysa and Littlefinger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pod The Impaler Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Nope. Nothing. Can't think of one thing, and I'm actually trying to. Even the WoS resulted from something terrible she was trying to do to someone else, which backfired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Nope. The war of five kings rests of her shoulders. I think she had some help starting that war. Lysa and Littlefinger, Jaime throwing Bran out the window. Littlefinger lying about Tyrion, Ned & Cat over reacting before finding out the facts and Joff trying to have Bran killed after Cersei and Jaime failed the first try. What a flusterduck! You can't lay all of that on Cersei. Oh, Lysa telling Cat that the Lannisters killed Jon Arryn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 I'm pretty sure that Cersei not giving Robert any trueborn children is something that she and Jaime did together. So you've just proved my point that it doesn't rest on her shoulders. Sure, she has to take her share of blame, but so does Jaime, Ned, Catelyn, Lysa and Littlefinger. The conversation was about Cersei so I only mentioned Cersei. I'm all about assigning Jaime the blame too. Those two are the cause. I think she had some help starting that war. Lysa and Littlefinger, Jaime throwing Bran out the window. Littlefinger lying about Tyrion, Ned & Cat over reacting before finding out the facts and Joff trying to have Bran killed after Cersei and Jaime failed the first try. What a flusterduck! You can't lay all of that on Cersei. Oh, Lysa telling Cat that the Lannisters killed Jon Arryn. See TywinM and the Wolf Lord's Daughter's posts. No one else would have been able to manipulate things the way they did had Cersei just had kids with Robert. But no, she and Jaime very intentionally usurped Robert's throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 See TywinM and the Wolf Lord's Daughter's posts. No one else would have been able to manipulate things the way they did had Cersei just had kids with Robert. Actually it would've been pretty easy. Kill Robert, then Renly rebels with the Tyrells on his side. Lie to Ned that the Lannisters did the deed and he'd most likely rebel too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheezitguy Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Actually it would've been pretty easy. Kill Robert, then Renly rebels with the Tyrells on his side. Lie to Ned that the Lannisters did the deed and he'd most likely rebel too. Renly wouldn't have rebelled if he didn't feel the need to. If Cersei was a good wife and Robert died, then he wouldn't have rebelled. Part of the reason he rebelled was because he was threatened by Cersei. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 The conversation was about Cersei so I only mentioned Cersei. I'm all about assigning Jaime the blame too. Those two are the cause. See TywinM and the Wolf Lord's Daughter's posts. No one else would have been able to manipulate things the way they did had Cersei just had kids with Robert. But no, she and Jaime very intentionally usurped Robert's throne. I would not necessarily include Jaime. Yes I know it takes two to tango as it were, however, it was Cersei who conspired to make Jaime take the White so she could be near him. That ploy didn't work out at first. Jaime is only just now realizing just how much Cersei has controlled and manipulated him his entire life. She laughed at him and told him that she had lied to him a thousand times. Jaime stayed true to her and she cheated on him at every turn. She really wanted Rhaegar and even Jaime was a poor substitute for the Prince. She selfishly kept her life intact so she could continue to be the queen and her children could inherit the throne from Robert whilst keeping Jaime on a leash. She is the one that was so intrinsically evil that it was only her beauty and sex that could blind anyone to what she was really up to. She was a coldhearted killer from childhood. A sociopath. Her blind ambition was all she could see. She could not see past her vanity, her own needs and wants and what she wanted for her children. She blinded herself to Joffrey's cruelty and was afraid to admit that she was afraid of her own son and could wield no control over him. Whereas Jaime was basically a good person, Joff was born bad and under Cersei's tutelage and Robert's complete lack of responsibility, Joff was a monster that was created by both of his lousy parents. Jaime murdered Robert's children in her womb with moon tea and probably worse at some point. She thought nothing of it. Jaime loved her heart and soul, body and mind. Is he blameless? Of course not. It was Cersei that hatched the schemes and plots, many of which her brother knew nothing about. "She's been fucking Lancel and Kettleback and Moonboy for all I know." That cut him worse than Valyrian Steel ever could. Yes, their incest helped to start the war, but they had a lot of help. Littlefinger masterminded a great deal behind the scenes, and Joffrey blundered into it making a bad situation even worse. It was Cersei that murdered Robert. It always amazed me that Tyrion had the perfect chance to call her a Kingslayer and kinslayer and have her head on a spike and instead he stayed silent. Cersei took every opportunity to get Tyrion killed. I didn't read those other posts as yet. I respect other people's opinions, but I prefer to speak my piece even if I am placing both of my big feet into my big mouth. Lol. I cannot stand Cersei. Sorry.. or maybe not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xray the Enforcer Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 [mod] Please do not use gendered insults to describe characters. Also, do not derail this into a discussion of the nature of Robert and Cersei's marital relations. If you do, I will close the thread -- we've had enough of that topic (and the gross rape apologia that goes along with it) to last us until at least 2017. Thank you. [/mod] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Short answer: no.Long answer: lol, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7th-key Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Wot5K: I think she just provided a pretext, which doesn't equal cause.Although it's very entertaining to think that in a world where men make all the decisions, Cersei would be responsible for continental war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 I'm pretty sure that Cersei not giving Robert any trueborn children is something that she and Jaime did together. Not exactly. Cersei and Jaime having children together - yes, that's on both of them. Cersei not having children with Robert - her sole choice, she herself says it out loud and proudly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimJames Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 She doesn't care about the realm. She only cares about her own selfish interests, and the kingdom bled as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimim Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Carnahan Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 I did feel sorry for her during the WoS (as I would for any other person suffering such a humiliation), but IMO none of her actions or decisions can be justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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