Aerys and Robb: Drawing the parallels

[Modelex]

1) Rejection of a politically expedient marriage to a loyal lord for poor reasons lead to their downfall

Aerys rejected a marriage of his son, Rhaegar to Cersei, the daughter of someone who served him faithfully and was integral to running the realm, just to slight Tywin. Robb did the same thing to Walder Frey. Both these occasions ended up being the deathblow to them and their reign

Their reasoning is even similar: they don't have the right pedigree

‘You are my most able servant, Tywin,’ the king said, ‘but a man does not marry his heir to his servant’s daughter.’

“The Westerlings are better blood than the Freys. They’re an ancient line, descended from the First Men. The Kings of the Rock sometimes wed Westerlings before the Conquest, and there was another Jeyne Westerling who was queen to King Maegor three hundred years ago.”

2) Arbitrary execution of Lords for "treason"

Aerys executes Brandon for what he considers to be treason, along with his retinue solely for accompanying him. Robb executes Lord Karstark along with his accomplices and one man who only accompanied Lord Rickard for what he considers to be treason. Both of these "treasons" are questioned heavily by multiple characters within the books, and leads to permanent tainting of relation between the Kings' houses and those houses, as well as outright rebellion/betrayal of loyalty

3) Results of their reign: loss of long-held dynastic legitimacy

Aerys is the one whose actions are responsible for the end of the Targaryen dynasty after nearly 300 years of rule, whilst Robb is the one whose actions are responsible for the end of the Stark dynasty after 8000 years. Both houses are replaced with others, and the children who remain and are powerless, must seek to win back their claims

[Bryanfury]

http://makeameme.org/media/created/Is-this-guy.jpg

[Good Guy Garlan]

This is such a big reach you might as well be a Tyrell

[Vikingkingq]

Robb's execution of Rickard Karstark was entirely justified. Karstark murdered a prisoner of Robb Stark's, against Robb's explicit orders - and far from claiming innocence, openly admitted to his actions. By contrast, neither Brandon nor Rickard nor any of their retainers had committed a crime, and were murdered without trial.

[QuickReviveGuy]

Robb married Jeyne because he took her virginity. That was just him justifying further.

[Theon {HUNGRY WOLF} Stark]

This poster is so obviously a TROLL. All he does is post an OP, ALWAYS BASHING THE STARKS, and then vanishes, so no use replying to his trollish posts.

[TallTyrion]

So murdering children isn't a problem for the OP?

[Bryanfury]

So murdering children isn't a problem for the OP?

Perfectly legit as long as you're slagging off a Stark while you do it

[Universal Sword Donor]

I think all you guys would have less room to comment if Robb hadn't burned all those people without trial. I won't even talk about him trying to hatch the dragons

[Modelex]

So murdering children isn't a problem for the OP?

Karstark wasn't executed because of the poor innocent children. He was killed because they were his prisoners hence his "honor" was besmirched by their deaths and because it was "treason"

[TallTyrion]

Karstark wasn't executed because of the poor innocent children. He was killed because they were his prisoners hence his "honor" was besmirched by their deaths and because it was "treason"

He was executed for murdering captives who were also children. Robb named it treason because it was a violation of his commands. What is arbitrary about that?

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I think all you guys would have less room to comment if Robb hadn't burned all those people without trial. I won't even talk about him trying to hatch the dragons

He also wanted to build a bigger Wall.

[WhitewolfStark]

Robb's execution of Rickard Karstark was entirely justified. Karstark murdered a prisoner of Robb Stark's, against Robb's explicit orders - and far from claiming innocence, openly admitted to his actions. By contrast, neither Brandon nor Rickard nor any of their retainers had committed a crime, and were murdered without trial.

Brandon threatened the life of a blood royal prince. Saying "come out and die" isn't exactly the thing that keeps your head.

Rickard--whether you believe the Southron Ambitions plot or not--however hadn't committed any crime.

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

Not even close .

[LordStoneheart]

Modelex reminds me of a conversation between two wives on some show:

"No matter how low we set the bar, they will still find a way to go under it?"

"Oh sweetie, you still think there's a bar?"

[Mladen]

Modelex reminds me of a conversation between two wives on some show:

"No matter how low we set the bar, they will still find a way to go under it?"

"Oh sweetie, you still think there's a bar?"

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: Apparently so... Needles to say, the opening post is :bs: . And I reserve that for very special occasions.

[James Arryn]

Brandon would have been condemned by almost any medieval ruler in history. The only thing arbitrary about it was the method.

[Vikingkingq]

Brandon threatened the life of a blood royal prince. Saying "come out and die" isn't exactly the thing that keeps your head.

Rickard--whether you believe the Southron Ambitions plot or not--however hadn't committed any crime.

Brandon was also a highborn who still has a right to trial by combat which was not honored. And as we've seen, in Westeros a lowly hedge knight can assault a prince and still get a trial by combat. So yes, a prosecutor could argue that Brandon threatened the life of the crown prince, which could be seen as treason, but a decent defense attorney could have argued that Brandon had offered a challenge to a duel, which would probably be legal under Westerosi law. Rhaegar was a belted knight himself, and obliged to answer such a challenge or be publicly dishonored.

And regardless, Brandon still had the right to demand his case be settled by trial by combat.

[Bronn Urgandy]

The Mad Wolf.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

I can no longer deny it, I love all your great hits. Hell, all your recent topics are hits, a quality few posters can brag about. We have: "In Defense of Rickard Karstark", "Ned or Tywin: Who was truly worse for their families?" (of course Ned), "Catelyn's toxic relationship with Edmure", "The Northern campaign in the Westerlands: assessing the damage and death toll" (spoiler alert: Robb is a mass murderer). I can't wait for the next one. No idea what it'll be about, only that it's going to be epic. :wub: