Daenerys and Cersei: real bisexuals or just lonely women?

[Rrachel]

As we know, there are several openly bisexual characters on the books, as Oberyn and Ellaria, but there are others with bisexual attitudes on specific moments and I would love reading your thoughts on the matter respecting Dany and Cersei.

We know that Daenerys has had some really close experiences with her handmaids, Doreah and Irri mostly, having the last of the two touch her at nights and masturbating her until climax while Doreah thought Dany about the arts of love.

“the handmaid put a hand on her breast, then bent to take a nipple in her mouth. Her other hand drifted down across the soft curve of belly, through the mound of fine silvery-gold hair, and went to work between Dany’s thighs. It was no more than a few moments until her legs twisted and her breasts heaved and her whole body shuddered. She screamed then. Or perhaps that was Drogon. Irri never said a thing, only curled back up and went back to sleep the instant the thing was done.” (324-325)

“That night she could not sleep but turned and twisted restlessly in her bed. She even went so far as to summon Irri, hoping her caresses might help ease her way to rest, but after a short while she pushed the Dothraki girl away. Irri was sweet and soft and willing, but she was not Daario.” (305)

In the case of Cersei, Taena comes as a companion that she starts to desire... watching her naked body, exotic as she say, and also ends up enjoying and using it for her own.

"Not lightly on the cheek, as was common courtesy amongst ladies of high birth, but full upon the lips. Taena’s lips were very full. She wondered what it would feel like to suckle on those breasts, to lay the Myrish woman on her back and push her legs apart and use her as a man would use her…." (685)

“‘Do what you will.’ Taena’s hair was as black as Robert’s, even down there between her legs, and when Cersei touched her there she found her hair all sopping wet…. ‘Please,’ the Myrish woman said, ‘go on, my queen. Do as you will with me. I’m yours.’

But it was no good. She could not feel it, whatever Robert felt on the nights he took her. There was no pleasure in it, not for her. For Taena, yes…. The queen slid a finger into that Myrish swamp, then another, moving them in and out…. She wanted to see if it would be as easy with a woman as it had always been with Robert…, she thought, slipping a third finger into Myr. She gasped some words in a foreign tongue, then shuddered again and arched her back and screamed. She sounds as if she is being gored, the queen thought. For a moment she let herself imagine that her fingers were a boar’s tusks, ripping the Myrish woman apart from groin to throat.

It was still no good.” (692-693)

But this kind of situations, while they do show pleasure, they also show some kind of unsatisfaction (usually after the sexual act is over). Which gives me the question... is this because they don't accept the bisexuallity on them and they feel odd after or it's because it's actually a thing that they don't enjoy?

Both women are away of their lovers at those times... Dany, with Daario and Cersei with Jaime... could have loneliness carry them to look for pleasure on other women?

Thoughts?

[aryagonnakill#2]

I don't think either is bisexual. Cersei could very well have some complicated stuff going on. She seems to wish she were a man, but perhaps that is only because all she really cares about is power and control. Dany was just a horny teenager.

[Viserys - The last dragon]

Hmhm.. No.. I do not believe that neither of them, Cersei nor Dany, is "real" bisexuals. Some might have certain "experiences" without being a bisexual. Like experimenting during college- which is suppose to be a big thing in the US, haha :) :cheers: (or at least that is what I've learned from movies :eek: )

[aryagonnakill#2]

^Girls experiment in Highschool, its the guys who experiment in college, girls mature quicker after all.

[Northernmonkey]

It could just be a power thing. If you're a queen and your handmaids will happily have sex with you then you're bound to give it a go once or twice.

[SeanF]

In the book, as opposed to the show, Dany doesn't experiment sexually with Doreah. They have a discussion about the "arts of love" over dinner. She never really views Irri as a lover, more as someone who's there to relieve stress.

Cersei's sexual encounter with Taena is unsatisfactory for Cersei, yet she does seem to be infatuated with her. She's always thinking how sexy and gorgeous she is (while still viewing her as a whore). It's probably down to the fact that Taena is constantly flattering her. I don't doubt Taena is playing her for a fool.

[Guess who's back]

^Girls experiment in Highschool, its the guys who experiment in college, girls mature quicker after all.

wtf. You are not straight if you feel any need to experiment with your own gender. At least that counts for guys.

[aryagonnakill#2]

^Lol, you just opened up a whole can of worms. Whether your statement is wrong and why I will leave to others, but I am unsure as to why you even commented on my post, as I said nothing about straight or gay. I said girls experiment in highschool, and guys in college.

[Viserys - The last dragon]

^Girls experiment in Highschool, its the guys who experiment in college, girls mature quicker after all.

Well.. okay? Trying to turn this into a girl-vs-boys argument? However stating that women mature faster than men is incorrect-> at least I believe so. How they mature, either as a boy or a girl, is individual and does not have anything to do with gender. And if you seriously believe that.. just look at all the "fangirls" when it comes to One Direction and Justin Bieber who faint and cry out.. I do believe this illustrates that so many teen girls have a behavior which is not in accordance with being mature (when you compare it to the boys in the same age group). But like I said, I do believe girls and boys mature in the same paste.

And what you are saying here really annoys me. Stating that if you experiment late in life that means that you're immature? Seriously? So a man or a woman who discoveries later in life that they homosexuals are.... late in development?

And it also annoys me that its possible to say stuff like that (negative) about one side- and not the other one. If you state that girls are superior to boys that is fine and well accepted.. But if you find statistic that illustrates in one instance that boys (in general) are better than girls you get called all kind of names.. Neither should be OK or accepted. We are all individuals and should not be defined in skill, mature level and so on just based upon our gender.

I'll have to excuse for my english here. Wrote fast, and English is deff not my 1th language

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

I dunno, I count myself as straight and I definitely sexually experimented with other girls in my youth. I was just trying to figure out my own sexuality. I figured most people do it to some extent, male and female. Certainly from the frank open discussions I've had as an adult it seems about 60% or so of my friends of both genders did.

[kimim]

I define bisexuality as being able to fall in love with a person of either gender. Dany enjoys sex with a woman, but the people she falls for are men, so she's pretty hetero.

Whatever Cersei is doing to Taena, it's not sex. She's experimenting, and she's not involved sexually. I think Cersei is only capable of enjoying sex with Jaime. She thinks of Jaime as a part of herself. She's egosexual, if there's such a thing.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

Snip

Sorry to butt it, but I *think* you simply misunderstood a turn of phrase.

Girls mature earlier than boys, generally isn't referring to emotional maturation but rather sexual maturation. Girls do indeed begin puberty younger than boys do, so their sexual maturation generally happens at a younger age to men's.

Most girls begin puberty age 8-14 and have completed it within 4 years. Boys begin between 9-14 and develop more slowly than girls do. So MOST boys reach sexual maturation older than MOST girls.

I don't think ARRYAGONNAKILL#2 was making out boys are not as "good" or "cool" as girls, but rather simply sighting this well understood phenomenon. That girls mature sexually on a whole younger than boys do. There fore most girls will begin sexually experimenting at younger ages than most boys.

Its not a big difference but it accounts for the generalisation of girls at secondary school to tend to date slightly older boys.

I doubt she was attempting to diss men with her off hand jest.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Everyone is a little gay.

Kinsey Scale

[Good Guy Garlan]

I don't think they're bisexual. Dany used Irri as her own Dothraki-brand vibrator, and Cersei just wanted to impersonate Robert, as part of her penis envy. Plus, Cersei admits she didn't like it, and Dany too thinks it's not the same with Irri than with Drogo (I know, no shit, Sherlock, but still)

[Lady Meliora]

I think the idea of Cersei as egosexual is pretty on-point. From a psychoanalytic viewpoint, narcissism is sexual desire for one's mirror image, rather than oneself. We're told again and again how much Cersei and Jaime look like, and I feel like (for Cersei, at least) that's the biggest turn on. She can have sex with Jaime and see herself in him.

On the main topic, I don't think that Dany or Cersei experienced any real attraction or desire for women. The sexual act was primarily a means to an end (orgasm for Dany, domination for Cersei). I do think that Taena is bisexual, however, as she seemed fairly smitten with Cersei.

[PatrickStormborn]

I don't think they're bisexual. Dany used Irri as her own Dothraki-brand vibrator, and Cersei just wanted to impersonate Robert, as part of her penis envy. Plus, Cersei admits she didn't like it, and Dany too thinks it's not the same with Irri than with Drogo (I know, no shit, Sherlock, but still)

Well, that's not really true. Dany actually thinks that she doesn't like it with Irri because her kisses "tasted of duty", indicating that she wants a willing and active sexual partner rather than a "Dothraki-brand vibrator" who isn't attracted to her. She doesn't enjoy sex with Hizdahr either - does that mean she isn't attracted to men?

GRRM would probably say that Dany is straight. But I'm gonna invoke death of the author and argue that there's no evidence Dany isn't attracted to women.

[Vikingkingq]

I think the best way to settle this is to contrast Dany and Cersei with Ellaria Sand, the Fowler twins, etc.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I think the best way to settle this is to contrast Dany and Cersei with Ellaria Sand, the Fowler twins, etc.

Ellaria isn't bisexual either. Not that we know about it. Lusting after someone (who is considered the most beautiful woman) doesn't mean you're bisexual. And she just probably wanted to spice up their sex life.

[Monctonvike]

With Dany she is just sort of experimenting/ exercising her queenly duties.

Cersei is a whole other matter, there was a build up to it. She knew the lady was flattering her she was envious of her beauty and she was hitting the drinks harder and harder. She was sort of reliving her life with king Rob and, sort of channeled her own inner Rob if you will. In the begining it seemed sort of empowering, and in the end she learned how hollow it could be too. It was not as much for pleasure for Cersei. I think it was to exert dominance, and to some extent to see what it was like. Also she is very bitter about the roles society in that world contrict women her whole life.

[Vikingkingq]

Ellaria isn't bisexual either. Not that we know about it. Lusting after someone (who is considered the most beautiful woman) doesn't mean you're bisexual. And she just probably wanted to spice up their sex life.

Being sexually attracted to both men and women is kind of the definition of bisexuality; I guess you can argue she's pansexual or polysexual, but she's definitely attracted to women. The phrase "we share too much" suggests a customary practice as opposed to a once-off. And Ellaria isn't just interested in Cersei, she's interested in sleeping with blonde women in general.