Free Northman Reborn Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 So I was browsing through the wiki entry for the North, and I came across the surprisingly detailed description of Ironrath, the imposing seat of House Forrester in the depths of the Wolfswood.I discovered that the detailed information on House Forrester's 1500 year old history is based on the recent Telltale game that was released. It even goes into detail about their key economic resources - their control of the largest source of Ironwood in Westeros, which is used in the construction of many types of weapons, ships and buildings.Ironrath sounds like a very formidable castle - much more formidable, in fact, than the rather unimpressive earthen keep of their liege lords, the Glovers.House Forrester, which we hardly knew existed up to now, appear to in fact be a very strong third tier House. Certainly much more powerful than some of the previous "petty lords" we have been introduced to.So my question is, is this information canon?As an aside, the game apparently also introduces the Forrester's arch rivals, House Whitehill, who are vassals of the Boltons and are one of the few northern Houses who worship the Seven.Again, can we consider this as canon? If so, it contributes greatly to fleshing out the North, given the rather underdeveloped state of Martin's Map of the North, which is mostly empty, to be frank.If you have impressive castles like Ironrath in the depths of the Wolfswood, it means that there must be hundreds of similar castles (easily as large as Deepwood Motte) scattered all over the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teemo Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 no. there is a house called House Forrester, but that's all that's canon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted December 25, 2014 Author Share Posted December 25, 2014 How do you know this? Has Martin or someone in the know specifically stated that it is non-canon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teemo Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_Forrester All we've heard of them in the books is "Lady Sybelle Glover provides scouts from House Forrester to Stannis Baratheon for his march through the wolfswood from Deepwood Motte to Winterfell.[1]" If it's not in the books and not confirmed to be canon by GRRM, then I don't see why it would be considered canon. On top of that, it's backed by HBO. Edit: But yes, House Forrester is canon. We just don't know anything about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Drunkard Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 The game is based on the tv show, not the books. It's apparent if you play the thing, but as that isn't an option for everyone: Our game series is based on the world, characters and events seen in HBO's TV show, which in turn is based on George R. R. Martin's books (A Song of Ice and Fire). The events in our game series begin towards the end of Season Three of the TV show, and end right before the beginning of Season Five. http://www.telltalegames.com/blog/discussion/86265/your-story-begins-first-details-on-game-of-thrones-a-telltale-games-series/p1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLittleFinger Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 It's Showcannon and set in the Showniverse. DRUNKARD! I'll never forgive you for this slight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Drunkard Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 DRUNKARD! I'll never forgive you for this slight! http://i.imgur.com/6Ny4I9Z.gif :drunk: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted December 25, 2014 Author Share Posted December 25, 2014 My question isn't whether it is in the books or not. I am well aware what is in the books. But maybe my question should be rephrased into two parts:1. Was it officially endorsed by Martin?2. If not, could it be semi-canon in the way that we know the names of a bunch of Houses that have not yet appeared in the books. Meaning it is probably true but is yet to be officially confirmed by Martin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted December 25, 2014 Author Share Posted December 25, 2014 And the third option is it is purely Show Universe material. Which means it is rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teemo Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 My question isn't whether it is in the books or not. I am well aware what is in the books.But maybe my question should be rephrased into two parts:1. Was it officially endorsed by Martin?2. If not, could it be semi-canon in the way that we know the names of a bunch of Houses that have not yet appeared in the books? In other words, it is semi-canon, meaning it is probably true but is yet to be officially confirmed by Martin. 1) no 2) maybe, maybe not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLittleFinger Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 It was endorsed by HBO and if you play the game (I have and don't want to spoil it) then you will know that it can't be book cannon because these characters interact with characters we know in the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted December 25, 2014 Author Share Posted December 25, 2014 It was endorsed by HBO and if you play the game (I have and don't want to spoil it) then you will know that it can't be book cannon because these characters interact with characters we know in the book.Well, the storyline of the game need not be canon. That does not preclude the possibility that the setting - including historical, geographical and world related details are based on source material from Martin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gertrude Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 If Ironwood hasn't been mentioned in the books so far, despite being a valuable resource, I don't want it to be mentioned and inserted into book canon. That would mean Martin is altering his story from his original vision, even if it's in a minor way and even if it fits into this world. It wasn't his idea, so I don't want it. I guess we will have to wait and see. HBO can go ahead and insert the Forresters if they want, in fact it would probably be smart and develop a deeper connection to the show for fans who played the game and don't read the books. Show is show and book is book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLittleFinger Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 Well, the storyline of the game need not be canon. That does not preclude the possibility that the setting - including historical, geographical and world related details are based on source material from Martin. While I suppose it doesn't, I think we would have heard in the books about a certain death, or a certain raving lunatic warrior hanging around Dany, or this suspicious new recruit at the Night's Watch or that Marge's maid from the North never once interacts with the only other person from the North at court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Drunkard Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 Well, the storyline of the game need not be canon. That does not preclude the possibility that the setting - including historical, geographical and world related details are based on source material from Martin. "Unlike the earlier games from Cyanide, this is an HBO license, derived from the television series rather than the novels, so the characters will look like their TV incarnations, and in many cases will be voiced by the actors who play them on the show." "Nothing is "book canon" but the novels. Even the TV show is not canon in that sense.The game may be "HBO canon," but that's a different matter.Ty and the team at Telltale devised the story." http://grrm.livejournal.com/391456.html There's no reason at this point to think anything in the game is relevant to the books. House Forrester is just a minor clan that helps Stannis navigate the Wolfswood in the book world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted December 25, 2014 Author Share Posted December 25, 2014 "Unlike the earlier games from Cyanide, this is an HBO license, derived from the television series rather than the novels, so the characters will look like their TV incarnations, and in many cases will be voiced by the actors who play them on the show." "Nothing is "book canon" but the novels. Even the TV show is not canon in that sense.The game may be "HBO canon," but that's a different matter.Ty and the team at Telltale devised the story." http://grrm.livejournal.com/391456.html There's no reason at this point to think anything in the game is relevant to the books. House Forrester is just a minor clan that helps Stannis navigate the Wolfswood in the book world.That is the kind of quote I was looking for. Thanks for providing it.EditHaving said that, I just followed your link and read Martin's full comment, and he certainly does not ridicule or disavow the premise of the game. In fact, he calls the Forresters ideal candidates for this "sidestory", because very little has been said about them to date.It therefore seems that he does not view the existence of such a House with such a castle as unreasonable within the context of the North as he envisages it. He merely made sure that people don't view this sidestory as book canon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Drunkard Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 No worries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Hendrix of Rock Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 If anything it should be more like Standfast, the Osgrey keep. Small & sturdy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennis of the Brown Shield Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 If anything it should be more like Standfast, the Osgrey keep. Small & sturdy. Osgrey's keep was just a glorified watchtower. "Ironrath" doesn't look abnormally large on the pictures. It does look a bit funky however, but that can be said about many design choices HBO has made for the series. *cough* Kingsguard and Lannister soldiers *cough* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nittanian Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 If Ironwood hasn't been mentioned in the books so far, despite being a valuable resource, I don't want it to be mentioned and inserted into book canon.Ironwood is mentioned a few times in AGOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.