Any knight can make a knight?

[Salafi Stannis]

Seriously, what's up with that shit? A knight can make some peasants baby a knight for the lols? Then how do you know if someone's not lying about being a knight? Some starving flea bottom peasant can just tell some BS story about how Ser Dave knighted him one day, and just like that he's started a knightly house? Then this guy can knight his buddy Steve from the ale house then everybody in towns a knight? Or a real knight knights someone who then knights everybody in town? Becoming a knight should be the easiest thing in Westeros, the laws are simply too lax.

[Trigger Warning]

Because if they don't have a horse, armour and weapons it doesn't mean much.

[Salafi Stannis]

Because if they don't have a horse, armour and weapons it doesn't mean much.

A real knight could lose his stuff.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

That's exactly what Dunk has done. He's not knight. He was kinda desperate, though.

And FYI, any catholic can baptise, confess or absolve to another men in a emergency. Like, if a man is dying and he wants to be absolved, I could go and ask him if he repents. With that, I can absolve him (in name of God) and if as though a priest had done it. Knighting is kinda the same.

Also, you need more than being a knight to have a House. There is no House Duckfield (...yet).

[cocoalover1956]

The Dunk and Egg novellas imply that there should be witnesses to the knighting that can be called upon to verify of someone was really knighted. If nobody vouches for or takes the new knight seriously, it doesn't mean much.

[Salafi Stannis]

That's exactly what Dunk has done. He's not knight. He was kinda desperate, though.

And FYI, any catholic can baptise, confess or absolve to another men in a emergency. Like, if a man is dying and he wants to be absolved, I could go and ask him if he repents. With that, I can absolve him (in name of God) and if as though a priest had done it. Knighting is kinda the same.

Also, you need more than being a knight to have a House. There is no House Duckfield (...yet).

Wish it were that easy in my religion.

[Salafi Stannis]

Double post. Goddamn you Tapatalk!

[mediterraneo]

Well, that's the way it is.

Knights seem to take the thing seriously enough no to play with it. It's not important if they do out of respect for the institution or for self-interest, as knighting "for the lol" would rest importance to a social divide benefitting them.

But being a knight, per se, doesn't mean much. If you are a knight and you are good enough with arms, you'll probably find a better job position in the security market. If you are able to offer good enough services.

Knighthood doesn't guarantee any rent or land: there is a difference between a Household and landed knights. Household knights depending on the person they are sworn too. See Brienne and Catelyn mutual vows, in Clash of Kings. Catelyn promises not to tarnish Brienne's honor and to always give her a roof and a meal. Landed knights can range from the small gentry to the lords whose heirs are considered presentable enough ti be offered in marriage to a Great House's female her: the sons of the Knight of the Lemonwood to Arianne Martell. There are two or three families of some strange hereditary knightly titles in Dorne the Dalt being one example.

Dunk had nothing of those when he cheated himself into knighthood. He had size, weapons and behaviour on his side, so nobody thought of challenging his claims on knighthood, expecially after the facts of his first novella, which involved very high profile support to his claim. That allowed him to be called Ser Duncan the Tall while he rented his security services around not to starve. Losing his weapons in his first tourney would have meant that he would have effectively stopped being a knight.

[Universal Sword Donor]

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1045/

Yet if every knight can create a knight as we have seen in "The Hedge Knight", what prevents a widespread misuse by unscrupulous hedge knights such as Ser Osmynd Kettleblack or the cynical Great Houses?

Social pressure. A knight's peers would look with a certain amount of disfavor on anyone who did this. They might gain money, but they would lose honor. And honor is still very important in this culture.

[Meekylarsson]

Try telling that to ser barristan!!! :)

[still bill]

Doesn't making someone a landed knight mean giving them land tho? Or am I pulling that out my ass?

[serdog]

Knighthood is more or less rank in terms of repect

Hedge Knight which comes in two type The sellsword and much rarer Knight Erent typer

Household Knight who is seves to a Lord or more powerful Knight(Ser Kevin has a large number of household knight eventhough he really is Tywin household Knight)

Landed Knight has Lands, a Keep and a can pass the title on (these can vary from small and new house like Celgene to powerful and old houses like Templeton of Ninestars or Fossaway) the more powerful of these house are Lords in all but name (Fossaway have married Tyrell's and Hightowers for exsample)

At the end of the day having a Ser means nothing without the service or lands to back it without horse, arms or armor really a Knight is nothing

[TallTyrion]

Someone doing what you propose runs counter to their entire culture and the honour based nature of a martial society. We also know duels are quite common so if word got out they you are abusing your powers someone is probably gonna come along and kill you.

[Cubarey]

Remember, unless he has land or is a member of a family that does a Knight is just a glorified sellsword. And without a warhorse armor and weapons neither is worth much. At best a "knighthood" only gets you certain religous obligations and the ability to enter the stocks in small local jousting tournaments (and you have to have the horse armor and weapons).

[C.T. Phipps]

Seriously, what's up with that shit? A knight can make some peasants baby a knight for the lols? Then how do you know if someone's not lying about being a knight? Some starving flea bottom peasant can just tell some BS story about how Ser Dave knighted him one day, and just like that he's started a knightly house? Then this guy can knight his buddy Steve from the ale house then everybody in towns a knight? Or a real knight knights someone who then knights everybody in town? Becoming a knight should be the easiest thing in Westeros, the laws are simply too lax.

Alot of these questions are actually answered in the books.

1. Yes, he could do that. It's a blasphemous misuse of what's supposed to be a holy rite but in real-life, we had a Horse made Roman Consul.

2. You have to have witnesses who attest to it. Dunk gets away with it because of unique circumstances.

3. That is more or less Dunk's story in a nutshell, actually.

4. Quentyn Flowers is a literal whore's son who bargained his sister's maidenhead to get his knighthood.

5. Good luck getting anyone to recognize that but yes, theoretically, you could. I doubt women can be knighted, though, at least until Renly makes Brienne one of his Kingsguard.

On a serious note, though. the thing with knights is that Westeros is in constant need of new calvarymen to kill their enemies. So, yeah, anyone can become a knight if they get sponsored for doing so because Westeros is a warmongering place filled with hired killers. COUNTERPOINT, however, that knightly social status isn't something you're obligated to recognize either. Quentyn Flowers and Dunk are people who get all manner of **** due to their lowborn origins and being a Hedge Knight is only slightly better than being a sellsword like Bronn.

Westeros takes knighthood VERY seriously despite the above examples as random peasant knighted as a baby by a knight for **** and giggles but who doesn't know how to wield a sword, ride a horse, or have any useful skills is likely to get beaten at best for making such a pretenious claim. I wouldn't be surprised if, "Impersonating a knight" is a hanging offense in Westeros.

And at the very least if you ARE a Hedge knight, you better damn well know how to use a sword because you WILL be required to use it.

Knighting is a tradition and a serious one. You could theoretically use the holy eucharist as snackfood at a birthday party but most Catholics won't. Even so, we do have some knights make a mockery of the rite as Quentyn did.

[Bryanfury]

Well if your knighting amounts to you wandering around like a sellsword, most people are just gonna scoff and question your knight-ship. Most knights serve a household and gain recognition and wealth doing so. Look at where Dunks lies about being knighted nearly got him - hell, if it weren't for Baelors prior blessing Dunk would have been hanged for treason and not even given a trial despite calling himself a knight.

The way I see it, most people won't consider you a true knight unless youre in someones service

[C.T. Phipps]

Well if your knighting amounts to you wandering around like a sellsword, most people are just gonna scoff and question your knight-ship. Most knights serve a household and gain recognition and wealth doing so. Look at where Dunks lies about being knighted nearly got him - hell, if it weren't for Baelors prior blessing Dunk would have been hanged for treason and not even given a trial despite calling himself a knight.

The way I see it, most people won't consider you a true knight unless youre in someones service

To be fair, Duncan punched the crown prince.

In general, hedge knightery also lasts until you lose your armor or horse.

Which is common.

Knighthood isn't hereditary either.

[Faydra]

Why should a hedge knight be deprived of this right when we have the crown prince knighting Gregor? It's not as if the highborn are better suited to find reliable people.

[C.T. Phipps]

Why should a hedge knight be deprived of this right when we have the crown prince knighting Gregor? It's not as if the highborn are better suited to find reliable people.

On a basic level, saying it's on the honor-system seems to undermine it.

OTOH, knighthood and a bronze penny will buy you a hooker.

[Faydra]

On a basic level, saying it's on the honor-system seems to undermine it.

Undermine what? Sorry for asking this, but please elaborate because I did not understand :drunk:.