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You Know Stabbing, Jon Snow


George W. Lannister

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There is a theory that Alistair Thorne is behind Jons stabbing. That he killed or convinced the men he was ranging with to abandoned the mission. He is hiding out some where waiting to take command. I would not be surprised if Alistair pulled an Euron. Come riding up to the wall the day after Jon is stabbed and they make him temporary LC.


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I keep having this recurring nightmare that GRRM's 30+ year-old word processor goes tits up and loses all progress on Winds of Winter. Seriously, it's time to upgrade to a new word processor and start schlepping a laptop around on all these trips he takes. If TWoW doesn't appear this year, there is no way he's finishing the books before the TV show. I think most people's impatience at this point stems from the ever-increasing likelihood that we'll be seeing a heavily abridged ending on TV rather than reading it in detail in a book. If GOT had never existed, or had started years later, the fan agitation would be a bit less.

You do realise that his publisher will require him to create backups of that material he has written or is writing at the the moment. No way they'll allow him to write with old computer like that without creating backups. GRRM doesn't write while he's travelling but on the other hand he has cut his traveling signicantly past 2 years.

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  • 3 months later...

You do realise that his publisher will require him to create backups of that material he has written or is writing at the the moment. No way they'll allow him to write with old computer like that without creating backups. GRRM doesn't write while he's travelling but on the other hand he has cut his traveling signicantly past 2 years.

That was to give GRRM more time to produce other TV shows.

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  • 2 weeks later...

it has been discussed so many times that jon is still alive, i now am really scared for jon, martin might just kill him, i know he said he doesnt change story because ppl have guessed something but i refused to fully believe it, first he takes so long that all major scenarios are discussed by fans and the really major ones might get changed a bit because martin wants to "shock" us.



We all know he is a bist sadist :D so right now i dont believe there are good chance for jon to be alive and we as fans are our own enemies, our obsession with this fact that jon cant be dead might just do it and the kind of person Martin is, i have this feeling he might just kill jon.



I believe scenario 3 is more likely.

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This.

I just hope GRRM doesn't drag out Jon's reappearance/resurrection into like the 20th chapter and whatnot.

D&D Said that Jon won't appear in S6, so we might see him in S7 or at the end of S6 as a cliffhanger.

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Oh, I don't believe for a second that Jon's really, truly dead. I think he's most likely warged into Ghost, and I think his physical body will be put on ice (most likely in the cells in the Wall) and he'll get resurrected somehow - maybe with Mel's help. I hope not, 'cause Mel is corrupt, imo, but...anyway, I can't see Jon dying.



I think he's gonna be really pissed when he comes out of it. The Watch is fucked no matter what happens.


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three fires must you light… one for life and one for death and one to love… three mounts must you ride… one to bed and one to dread and one to love… three treasons will you know… once for blood and once for gold and once for love…



I think your right about the fact Jon will be put in a ice cell. It could be possible that the fire Dany must light will awake Jon, though since she's only realisticaly gonna move for Westeros and I believe The North at the end of Winds that is gonna be a long an arduous wait. If she moves to Westeros in her third or fourth chapter and GRRM does a time skip like in ADWD then ita possible that they could meet mid book but it would need to be a bloody massive book.


The problem with that is while the fans might be glad for it and GRRM would be capable for some reason the publishing Houses refuse any book beyon 1500 manuscript pages so he often needs to cull the manuscript which leads to the constant re-edits and delays. If I recall that was the reason for Feast being halved and Dance having several chapters removed.


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  • 3 weeks later...

Gotcha. Still, while they might not be evil in the "demons from the 7 hells" sense, they probably are still the "kill everything sentient that's not us" evil.

so basically no different than Humans? The problem with all our speculation is that we don't know "why" the Others are moving South, or even " Who" they are.

Pretty sure BloodRaven will tell us in the next book though.
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Was just thinking about Jon's experience with pointy ends, and am trying to think of the different scenarios that follow. Honestly, before now I had only thought about what happens to Jon, but not about the plot in general.

 

Here are a couple of thoughts about what is born out of Jonny-goes-dead-dead:

  • SCENARIO 1: Bowen Marsh and his coalition take over.  Tormund and his men either fight to the death or retreat (south of the Wall, of course) to regroup.  The Queen's Men are killed or captured...with Marsh doing some of the deed.  Always a doubter of Jon and Stannis, he decides to honor the letter's requests and sends Selyse/Shireen/Mance's babe (actually Gilly's babe) down towards Winterfell. 

 

 

This more or less.

Tormund and the wildlings will not fight for Jon Snow.  Yes, they owe him a big one, but

a) he is dead, for now;

b) the internal dynamics of 'crows' is not their problem,

c) they are no 'kneelers', then why fight for a party?,

d) they are already south of the wall, they just have to keep their distance from Castle Black.

 

I may be the only one left on this boat...but I'm still holding on to the idea that there won't be any "Others Invasion".   

 

 

maybe the "others" will arrive to the wall, seal the passage to Castle Black, and be happy with it.  they just don't want to have humans around them anymore.

 

this would be in line with those that believe that the wall was built by the Others, and centuturies after it was taken over by the northmen.

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D&D Said that Jon won't appear in S6, so we might see him in S7 or at the end of S6 as a cliffhanger.

 

Yet he's been filming in Belfast last week, there are pictures supporting this. He's there but we don't know for how long or in what capacity, it could be a funeral or it could be a ressurectio.

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Yet he's been filming in Belfast last week, there are pictures supporting this. He's there but we don't know for how long or in what capacity, it could be a funeral or it could be a ressurectio.

Or a warging (With voice-acting, while in Ghost). Then D&D where right that Jon will not return in s6 (In Person). 

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I don't think John dies, hence I don't think he'll need Rhyllor resurrection spell. Stabbed 3 times with a dagger is fact, but unless GRRM shows a dead body (just a stabbing). IMO It's to expected for Mel to resurrect.

I don't the warging into Ghost either. Maybe it's just me, but characters having to live through animals the rest of there lives doesn't thrill me. If anything, it severely limits human interaction.

I'm kind of hoping Ghost bust down the door and wrecks bowen and Co. Then pulling JS to safety.
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Okay, I have a partial theory on what's next for Jon Snow. Feel free to correct any errors and disagree. 

 

Jon is obviously a worg, he just hasn't discovered his abilities yet. Now this isn't foolproof, but in GoT Bran began to have recurring wolf dreams. Now at this point he's been able to worg into Hodor on his own, and Bloodraven is teaching him to worg into crows, and into weirwood trees to see in the past, present, and future(?).

 

So given how Bran's abilities began to manifest themselves, and with Jon having many wolf dreams, and his extremely strong connection with Ghost all point to him being a worg. This isn't disputed. So after Jon is called a traitor and murdered by his brothers (ironic, right?) I don't believe Mel will be able to revive him straightaway. Meaning he will be dead for a time while Mel figures out how to bring him back. 

 

In Mel's first and only chapter so far, she looks into the flames and asks R'hllor to show her Stannis, but all she can see is Jon. To quote her chapter:

 

"The flames crackled softly, and in their crackling she heard the whispered name Jon Snow. His long face floated before her, limned in tongues of red and orange, appearing and disappearing again, a shadow half-seen behind a fluttering curtain. Now he was a man, now a wolf, now a man again. But the skulls were here as well, the skulls were all around him. Melisandre had seen his danger before, had tried to warn the boy of it. Enemies all around him, daggers in the dark. He would not listen." 

 

I believe "...limned in tongues of red and orange..." alludes to fire, what else in Castle Black is red and orange? "...appearing and disappearing again, a shadow half-seen behind a fluttering curtain." I think this hints at resurrection, with the shadow and the fluttering curtain being a metaphor for what some might call limbo or purgatory. "Now he was a man, now a wolf, now a man again." This part is the most important. Jon was a man, he was killed, and his consciousness worgs into Ghost, preserving his mind or soul or whatever you want to call it, then he is brought back and now a man again. And of course, finally the daggers in the dark foreshadows Jon betrayal. 

 

To me all of this means that Jon will worg into Ghost, (there is precedence for this: look at Varamyr Sixskins) Mel will burn Jon on a funeral pyre and he will be resurrected, and Jon's parentage (at least, half) will become clear that Jon is half Targaryen. There is also somewhat precedence for this: look at Dany at the end of GoT when her dragons are born. There's also these clues about Azor Ahai, taken from a theories page on the wiki:

  • Jon's wounds smoke while Bowen Marsh cries, providing the prophecised salt, and Ser Patrek's bloody, star laden heraldry is in the air above.[6]
  • When Melisandre looks into her fires for Azor Ahai, she sees only things to do with Jon or snow, which he thinks must just be ash but she sees a possible connection to Jon.[7]
  • Jon Snow has a dream where he fights the Others with a red sword burning in his hand.[8]
  • If having the Blood of the Dragon is a prerequisite, if Jon's father is truly Rhaegar, Jon would satisfy that prerequisite. He would be the grandson of Aerys and Rhaella and thus come from their line.
  • Jon chose his duty to the Night's Watch over his love for Ygritte. He indirectly caused her death by warning Castle Black of the incoming wildling raid. Similar to Azor Ahai sacrificing Nissa Nissa to complete Lightbringer.

 

To create Lightbringer, Mel will put Longclaw on top of Jon's body before setting it ablaze. 

 

Whew! That was a long one. Now that we're done with that, what will Jon do now?

 

With Jon having died, he is released from his Night's Watch vows. This will allow him to own lands, take a wife, father children, and wear a crown, and win glory. IMO the most important of these is being able to wear a crown. Part of me believes that Robb legitimized Jon in his will, and named him heir. But I won't go into that.

 

What's immediately next for Jon? This part of my theory is way less thought out, so once again, if you find something wrong, let me know! Personally I think that he will go south to The Gift, where the captive wildlings who swore to Stannis have gone, and possibly some of the 4,000 wildlings who were rescued. Or maybe Mel will bring Jon south to revive him, and with the wildlings witnessing this, they drop Stannis and swear allegiance to Jon. After all, they saw Jon grant "Mance" mercy with his bowmen, a lot of 'lings followed Tormund, and he is Jon's best wildling ally.

 

From here, I would think they return to Castle Black under the cover of night (fitting) and rescue the child hostages, then making their presence known. The Watch is very weak at this point, with 588 men total across Eastwatch-by-the-Sea, Castle Black, and the Shadow Tower. From here Jon will execute the brothers involved in his stabbing. 

 

After this, I have no idea. Let me know what you guys think: which parts do you agree with, and which do you disagree? Thank you in advance for your feedback.

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I may be the only one left on this boat...but I'm still holding on to the idea that there won't be any "Others Invasion".   

 

Everyone just assumes they are evil creatures that will attack for no reason.  Why would they attack?  What's their reasons?  What are they after?  Very little is known about them and their motives.  GRRM is not going to just make The Other's some sort of evil force that will invade for no reason and no motive.  He's a smarter writer than that, and has always said he does not believe in a "true good" and a "true evil".

 

History is not always what it is cracked up to be....and I think Samwell will uncover a lot of hidden historical knowledge at the Citadel that will show what a lot of people perceive is factual as actually being false.  Remember, there are texts that exist ONLY deep down in the heart of the Citadel  (the same texts that apparently Jagan Hagar is after also).

 

I may be completely wrong...but I gaurentee you that there is a twist with The Others somewhere.  It's just not GRRM's style to write a "pure evil force" with no back-story.  There is more to it that hasn't been explained yet.

 

The Others are already making their move. Slowly moving south with small raids and trimming the Wildling slackers. My guess is that the Others are not very numerous but they intend to build up their army of Whites from the slain before their full on invasion. It's a full proof plan in my opinion, building a cannon fodder army while staying safe at the rear is using their abilities to the fullest extent, every man they kill is added to their army.

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To me all of this means that Jon will worg into Ghost, (there is precedence for this: look at Varamyr Sixskins) Mel will burn Jon on a funeral pyre and he will be resurrected, and Jon's parentage (at least, half) will become clear that Jon is half Targaryen. There is also somewhat precedence for this: look at Dany at the end of GoT when her dragons are born. There's also these clues about Azor Ahai, taken from a theories page on the wiki:

  • Jon's wounds smoke while Bowen Marsh cries, providing the prophecised salt, and Ser Patrek's bloody, star laden heraldry is in the air above.[6]
  • When Melisandre looks into her fires for Azor Ahai, she sees only things to do with Jon or snow, which he thinks must just be ash but she sees a possible connection to Jon.[7]
  • Jon Snow has a dream where he fights the Others with a red sword burning in his hand.[8]
  • If having the Blood of the Dragon is a prerequisite, if Jon's father is truly Rhaegar, Jon would satisfy that prerequisite. He would be the grandson of Aerys and Rhaella and thus come from their line.
  • Jon chose his duty to the Night's Watch over his love for Ygritte. He indirectly caused her death by warning Castle Black of the incoming wildling raid. Similar to Azor Ahai sacrificing Nissa Nissa to complete Lightbringer.

 

To create Lightbringer, Mel will put Longclaw on top of Jon's body before setting it ablaze. 

 

Whew! That was a long one. Now that we're done with that, what will Jon do now?

 

With Jon having died, he is released from his Night's Watch vows. This will allow him to own lands, take a wife, father children, and wear a crown, and win glory. IMO the most important of these is being able to wear a crown. Part of me believes that Robb legitimized Jon in his will, and named him heir. But I won't go into that.

 

 

I can see most of this happening but I don't believe Jon would feel released from his NW vows if he dies and is reviwed. He's just too honourable to use a technicality to get away from his duties. If he's alive again, his vows are still valid. IMO the only way he's leaving the Night's Watch is if it ceases to exist and/or the Wall comes down. Although the ensuing chaos after the stabbing may just lead to that.

 

If he does climb down alive from a funeral pyre I can see two things happening, people will be very loyal to him and worship him (like the Dothraki after Dany appeared with her dragons), or they would chase him away as an abomination. Or a mixture, the NW throws him out, the wildlings follow him (and he stil acts as a man of the NW and eventually goes back to become their commander again.)

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