Barristan Selmy's flaws

[Beanis Buttershield]

I, like some, think Barristan Selmy is the original bad-ass 'white knight'.

In respect to the books one can assume this means that GRRM has already lured me into his trap. Can you think of some flaws this character has that could ultimately lead to an unnecessary death/failure of some kind?

I need to break my attachment from this character before he dies of the flux.

[Lord Lannister]

By his own admission bending the knee to Robert and serving him was his biggest failure. He also hints that something might have happened between him and Ashara Dayne back in the day.

[sifth]

I love the old man too, but I honestly had no idea if or how George is going to kill him. I mean naturally I would prefer him not to die, but it's almost impossible to say if he will. I know he and Vic stand a very good chance of being killed in the up coming battle though.

Saving Aerys turned out to be a flaw in the long run, since it led to a civil war.

[John Doe]

By his own admission bending the knee to Robert and serving him was his biggest failure. He also hints that something might have happened between him and Ashara Dayne back in the day.

And afterwards abandoning Robert's dynasty... he changes kings like I change clothes.

[Lowborn]

He put his Kingsguard vows before his knightly vows. As far as we know he never considered going against Aerys until Robert had already won, unlike Jaime who broke his vows and probably saved more people than any single other person in the world of Westeros. Barristan is very loyal, but blind loyalty is not good. Loyalty should be earned, and lost in Aerys's case.

[DavosBolton]

I hope he makes a lot of babies with Ashara Dayne (whom I hope is still alive)

[Hound_Reborn]

Blind loyalty, even to those whom he knows are doing things wrong.

[Bustard]

Barristan is loyal/dutiful to a fault. Basically the antithesis of Jaime. He's a good man at heart but holy shit, learn to think for yourself! The Holocaust wouldn't have happened if not for the Barristans of the world.

[Blackfish Tully]

And afterwards abandoning Robert's dynasty... he changes kings like I change clothes.

He bent the knee to Robert after every Lord in the Seven kingdoms had declared him King and after fighting for Aerys like a madman on the Trident and being saved by Robert's Maester. What was he supposed to do ? go serve Viserys who he saw had the same taint as Aerys.

Then after Joffrey had cast him aside he went to serve Dany. Once again , what was he supposed to do ? just go home and wait to die?

[Blackfish Tully]

Barristan is loyal/dutiful to a fault. Basically the antithesis of Jaime. He's a good man at heart but holy shit, learn to think for yourself! The Holocaust wouldn't have happened if not for the Barristans of the world.

Jaimie was serving Aerys just the same as every other member of the Kingsguard. It wasn't until Aerys plot was going to kill Jaimie and his father plus 500,000 other people that he decided to act. Every member of the Kingsguard would have acted the same way instead they would have captured Aerys instead of killing him and they would have tried to save Rhaegar's family which Jaimie forgot about.

[John Doe]

He bent the knee to Robert after every Lord in the Seven kingdoms had declared him King and after fighting for Aerys like a madman on the Trident and being saved by Robert's Maester. What was he supposed to do ? go serve Viserys who he saw had the same taint as Aerys.

Then after Joffrey had cast him aside he went to serve Dany. Once again , what was he supposed to do ? just go home and wait to die?

1. Yes, if he was all about duty. No, if he was all about his own benefit.

2. Yes. Normally, if a king dismisses you, you don't support his rival.

[Blackfish Tully]

1. Yes, if he was all about duty. No, if he was all about his own benefit.

2. Yes. Normally, if a king dismisses you, you don't support his rival.

1. So Barristan gets criticized because he does not think for himself but now your saying he's a bad guy because he did think for himself and decide to follow Robert instead of Viserys.

2. Why the hell not? Joffrey would be a horrible king , why not support his rival?

[JonCon's Red Beard]

The vows of a Knight are related to their religion. Also does to vow to protect the King. While men like Barristan aren't exactly men of faith, they do believe in their gods. So, it's not like they can say "oh, I will stop believing in what I believe". They are meant to serve the King because that's what the gods want from them.

Also, they serve the institution of a King. Like every priest obeys the Pope. No priest says "well, I'm out because I don't like this pope". They serve the King, whoever the King is.

[Bustard]

Every member of the Kingsguard would have acted the same way instead they would have captured Aerys instead of killing him and they would have tried to save Rhaegar's family which Jaimie forgot about.

Jaime had his own flaws but I totally disagree. Barristan would serve Aerys until death.

[John Doe]

Also, they serve the institution of a King. Like every priest obeys the Pope. No priest says "well, I'm out because I don't like this pope". They serve the King, whoever the King is.

If popes would inherit dynastically, I'd agree. But this is not the case. The likes of Arthur Dayne didn't forsake the royal family either. The institution of the kingsguard is rather pointless if you can kill the guy they are sworn to protect and they serve you afterwards.

[Blackfish Tully]

Jaime had his own flaws but I totally disagree. Barristan would serve Aerys until death.

he would serve Aerys till death and nearly did on the Trident but he would not let Aerys burn Kings Landing to the ground killing 500,000 people including Aerys himself and Rhaegar's family . If you believe he would just stand by and let that happen then we will have to agree to disagree because there is no way that the Barristan i read about would do that.

[John Doe]

1. So Barristan gets criticized because he does not think for himself but now your saying he's a bad guy because he did think for himself and decide to follow Robert instead of Viserys.

2. Why the hell not? Joffrey would be a horrible king , why not support his rival?

I'm not saying he's a bad guy, but he's a hypcrite because he is all about being honorable and keeping his vows and he forsake the king's family when they actually needed him.

He didn't support Joffrey's enemies because he would make a bad king, but because he dismissed him. He didn't have a problem with supporting Joff against Ned a short time before.

[Lord Sapna]

The vows of a Knight are related to their religion. Also does to vow to protect the King. While men like Barristan aren't exactly men of faith, they do believe in their gods. So, it's not like they can say "oh, I will stop believing in what I believe". They are meant to serve the King because that's what the gods want from them.Also, they serve the institution of a King. Like every priest obeys the Pope. No priest says "well, I'm out because I don't like this pope". They serve the King, whoever the King is.

If popes start smacking each other in the chest with hammers. I'm gonna start going to church.

[Blackfish Tully]

I'm not saying he's a bad guy, but he's a hypcrite because he is all about being honorable and keeping his vows and he forsake the king's family when they actually needed him.

He didn't support Joffrey's enemies because he would make a bad king, but because he dismissed him. He didn't have a problem with supporting Joff against Ned a short time before.

He swore a vow to serve Aerys and he nearly died for him on the Trident. When he recovered from his wounds Aerys was dead and Robert was King on the Iron Throne. I have no problem with him bending the knee to Robert instead of looking for Viserys (someone who he knew to have the taint of insanity)

It's funny how Barristan is criticized for being to fanatical in his duty and now you are criticizing him for not being fanatical enough to join Viserys.

[John Doe]

He swore a vow to serve Aerys and he nearly died for him on the Trident. When he recovered from his wounds Aerys was dead and Robert was King on the Iron Throne. I have no problem with him bending the knee to Robert instead of looking for Viserys (someone who he knew to have the taint of insanity)

It's funny how Barristan is criticized for being to fanatical in his duty and now you are criticizing him for not being fanatical enough to join Viserys.

It has npthing to do with being fanatical. Viserys was the heir appearent, and we know the kingsguard is supposed to protect the royal family. If you want to argue he owed Viserys nothing because Robert, not Viserys, was the acknoleged king at the time, Barristan was not justified in flipping over to Dany. You can't have it both ways.

If he is justified in changing his kings based on how good Barristan thinks they are, Jaime is as well justified in killing Mad King Aerys and serving Robert instead, a deed of that as we all know Barristan does not approve.