Salafi Stannis Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 So, I believe that Stannis is the rightful king because he is Roberts rightful heir and Robert won the throne from the Targaryens, who also derived their claim from right of conquest. So, I was arguing with a fellow poster, and they pointed out that, with this reasoning, I must also accept that the Boltons are the rightful Lords of Winterfell, having won it from the Starks by right of conquest, and I tried to find a fault with that reasoning, and lo and behold, I couldn't. Are the Boltons the rightful Lords of Winterfell? Or is "right to rule" a meaningless social construct? In which case the Starks still aren't the rightful Lords of Winterfell, if there is no right to rule. I want Stannis to be rightful king, and I also want the Starks to be the rightful Lords of Winterfell, but I can't think both, they are mutually exclusive. I still stick to my reasoning about how Stannis is the rightful king, so this would also mean that the Boltons are the rightful Lords of Winterfell, and that sucks.EDIT - However, it was pointed out to me that the Boltons were given Winterfell by the Lannisters, who are traitors and are not the rightful rulers, and have no right to give the Boltons Winterfell, so the Boltons are in fact NOT the rightful Lords of Winterfell, and that the Starks are, so crisis of conscience AVERTED! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robb_Warged Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Stannis' authority trumps Bolton's rise to power. if Stannis is the true king and means to put the Starks back as the leading house of the North, then that is a more important claim for the spot than Roose's power moves and royal acknowledgment as the head of the North from a false king Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolfswood Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 But the King has the right to name the Warden of the North, East, West etc....... (not Dorne) as Joffrey (actually Tywin) did to give the Boltons the role. If Stannis is indeed the true king they he names the warden and he doesn't want the Boltons. They did not win the north by conquest but through Joffrey granting them the role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrick Eddon Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 So, I believe that Stannis is the rightful king because he is Roberts rightful heir and Robert won the throne from the Targaryens, who also derived their claim from right of conquest. So, I was arguing with a fellow poster, and they pointed out that, with this reasoning, I must also accept that the Boltons are the rightful Lords of Winterfell, having won it from the Starks by right of conquest, and I tried to find a fault with that reasoning, and lo and behold, I couldn't. Are the Boltons the rightful Lords of Winterfell? Or is "right to rule" a meaningless social construct? I want Stannis to be rightful king, and I also want the Starks to be the rightful Lords of Winterfell, but I can't think both, they are mutually exclusive. I still stick to my reasoning about how Stannis is the rightful king, so this would also mean that the Boltons are the rightful Lords of Winterfell, and that sucks. Do you know what conquest means ???????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GallowsKnight Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Yes and no. It's still currently in dispute by the different forces.Stannis has the better legal claim to the throne. Just as the Starks have the best claim to Winterfell.But both need to support with might. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Eh, Renly had the right of it. Armies make kings. The rest is just justification after the fact. No one really believes Robert's claim to the throne was derived from some distant relationship to the Targaryens, it came from his hammer on the trident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Meh, DP.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Eh, Renly had the right of it. Armies make kings. The rest is just justification after the fact. No one really believes Robert's claim to the throne was derived from some distant relationship to the Targaryens, it came from his hammer on the trident. This. If the Boltons can hold it then they are the rightful rulers of the north. Something tells me they wont though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambi76 Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Eh, define "rightful". :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 The one that can hold the territory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard of the Rainking Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Since I believe that Stannis is the rightful king, that makes the Boltons nothing more than a bunch of pink barbaric phonies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salafi Stannis Posted December 28, 2014 Author Share Posted December 28, 2014 Since I believe that Stannis is the rightful king, that makes the Boltons nothing more than a bunch of pink barbaric phonies. Explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 No, the Boltons paid great care to claim Winterfell by marriage to a fStark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard of the Rainking Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Explain. The Lannisters are traitors and Joffrey/Tommen is not the true king, so they have no right to give the them such titles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salafi Stannis Posted December 28, 2014 Author Share Posted December 28, 2014 The Lannisters are traitors and Joffrey/Tommen is not the true king, so they have no right to give the them such titles. Oh yeah, I agree, I shall edit the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lux Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 If we use the feudal logic so no: They got their seat as a reward for treason. I am surprised the lords of the North did not rise up in a general rebellion after Tywin was assassinated... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibzit Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 fArya or no, if the Boltons defeat all opposition to their claim to the north, they are the rightfull lords of winterfell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lux Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Also, Targaryen legitimacy can only be counted from the king who converted to the Faith and made peace with the Andals. The first two Targaryen rulers were basically military occupants of a continental scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lux Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 fArya or no, if the Boltons defeat all opposition to their claim to the north, they are the rightfull lords of winterfell. Legitimacy and legality are not the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salafi Stannis Posted December 28, 2014 Author Share Posted December 28, 2014 Also, Targaryen legitimacy can only be counted from the king who converted to the Faith and made peace with the Andals. The first two Targaryen rulers were basically military occupants of a continental scale. Aegon still conquered the kingdoms and had the kings bend the knee to him. (Well, except Dorne). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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