INCBlackbird Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Lol, that was what I posted but then edited to nevermind. A troll is an obvious troll. "this person doesn't agree with me, they must be a troll" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelborn Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 "this person doesn't agree with me, they must be a troll" You clearly haven't seen his other threads, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Meliora Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 "this person doesn't agree with me, they must be a troll" Isn't that how life works? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelborn Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Even on this subforum you can see me disagreeing with people without calling them trolls (and who said I disagree with his first statements?), but anyway, I guess ignoring is always the best solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Obama Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share Posted January 20, 2015 "this person doesn't agree with me, they must be a troll"It's funny because I explained why I posted that comment lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roose is Azor Ahai Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 And there's this one thing everyone gets wrong: People hate Theon because he betrayed his King for his family. Robb betrayed his King (Joffrey) for his family, who was helt hostage for treason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWanderer Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 "this person doesn't agree with me, they must be a troll" I don't think he's a troll because he holds an opinion contradictory to mine, I think he's a troll because he holds an opinion contradictory to itself. If he actually, genuinely believed that Theon wasn't arrogant then I would disagree with him, I would debate him but I wouldn't call him a troll. I didn't call him a troll in fact, until he posted a contradictory argument. I'll lay it out for you: First he starts a thread entitled (in part): Theon's actions are not arrogant. The opening post includes this line: · My only qualm with Theon was that he didn’t leave Winterfell when he had the chance. That was his only stupid decision. He then comes back a few days later with this: I'm sick of people calling Theon stupid because he wasn't. Him staying in Winterfell was not because he was stupid. Theon was just arrogant and didn't want to leave because his sister embarrassed him. Which manages to not only contradict his earlier post ("people calling Theon stupid" including himself in the OP) but also the purpose of the thread to demonstrate that Theon is not arrogant. He is now clearly taking contrary positions to people just to get them to keep arguing. That is decidedly troll-like behaviour, and given his history of troll-like behaviour I'm going to need a better response then: That was his one arrogant move, but the totality wasn't... I was specially talking about him not leaving Winterfell. I'm sorry but im not trolling. Whatever that's supposed to mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultraseamus Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Oh no, his downfall was not leaving when his sister warned him. His downfall was his pride. He disobeyed orders to capture Winterfell. And, it served no purpose except to stroke his ego. he wanted to show everyone he grew up with that he was someone who deserved their respect. The attack itself was foolish because there was nothing to gain. Like you admitted, he should have run from Winterfell with his sister immediately after taking it. They never had a chance of holding Winterfell. And they got nothing of value from taking it; except to piss off the North and give the Bolton's a shot at taking over. Theon was a confused, conflicted young-man. He knew the whole time that it was wrong to betray the Starks, but his pride told him that he deserved to rule. Once he realized that his loyalty was seen as a weakness by his father (whose good side he needed to be on) he abandoned what he believed was the right thing to do, and set.out to become like / impress his dad. The way he took Winterfell was smart, but actually attacking Winterfell (for no strategic reason) was dumb. Being willing to commit to such an attack. Carrying out the attack and thinking he could hold the fort was arrogant. The two are not mutually exclusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cladinator Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Not to go off topic, but what happened to the other troll-thread about Ned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nothingEvil Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I'm sorry but what? he was LUCKY to be taken away from his family at the age of 9 by the people who killed his brothers (whom he did look up to even though they were assholes to him) to grow up in this strange place filled with people who judge him because of his last name knowing he could be killed any day and had no control over it whatsoever (and on top of that having to watch executions knowing it could be him on the block next time). yeah he was really lucky! The Starks weren't bad to him, but then again he was a high born hostage, they treated him exactly like high born hostages are supposed to be treated and most other lords in Westeros would have treated him the same way! newsflash: the starks aren't saints. Newsflash: It wasn't the Starks who killed Theons brothers. Why do people pretend they did over and over again? And, as others have pointed out, the way the Starks treated Theon is not the way most other lords in Westeros would have treated him. COME ON! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagewich Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Theon had a rather good life at Winterfell as a hostage. He was trained as the Starks boys were. From the very beginning he was a bore and braggart. I am sure Caitlyn treated him rudely, but he and the rest seemed to get along fairly well. I think Bran had him pegged. Theon was with the Starks because HIS father rebelled. It could have been much worse. He should have blamed his father for his fostering/hostage, not the Starks. Theon's tragedy was he forgot his Ironborn legacy. His hubris is devastating. To return as he did and make such demands, without scouting out the situation and lay of the land was sheer stupidity. The gross fondling of his sister (not his fault) and boasting, gave her much ammunition to taunt him with. Taking Winterfell was not brilliant. He could not hold it. Even if he had the men, Winterfell would never had bent the knee. Further, he was too far from the sea to be resupplied with food and men, even if Asha or her father desired to do so. He just did not think it through? The idea to kill the miller's sons and proclaim they were Rickon and Bran was horrific. I do think he has paid for his sins more than any other character. Why Martin has singled Theon out for such brutal punishment, when others get off with fairly clean (if unfair) death, troubles me. I feel sorry for him at times. And then I remember his wretched treatment of the Winterfell folks. I do realize he did not sack Winterfell. But had he not "taken" it in the first place, Winterfell would not had been ready for the plucking. He made a young, untried man's mistakes. I believe the butchery visited on Theon does show Martin is Stark fan (I hope). Theon must pay with many parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninerings Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Sagewitch, Just putting it out there that no matter what you write, I can't get past that awesomely cute kid's avatar pic! Nine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damp Hair - The Prophet Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Taking Winterfell from 2 kids and the few left behind when he had a working knowledge of the place was sneaky and cowardly. Committing suicide rather than being teased and tortured , used and abused would have been braver than going on. Theon is a loser coward for the times and mythos of the situation set out in the book The place was empty because of the clever TorrensSqaure ruse he engineered. It's called tactics (strategically he stayed too long and it didn't work out as he intended). Taking the heart of the north with 20 men is a feat no matter how you try to rationalize it otherwise. That you think a quick act of suicide is braver than living and enduring a year (or however long) in the worst torture dungeon in the realm with a renowned psychopath is very telling &, frankly, ignorant. Has nothing dreadful ever happened to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Newsflash: It wasn't the Starks who killed Theons brothers. Why do people pretend they did over and over again? And, as others have pointed out, the way the Starks treated Theon is not the way most other lords in Westeros would have treated him. COME ON! Yes it is. George said so himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Hostage raised by other families is commonplace in the books so it does not excuse his actions especially as he has by all accounts bee treat well. To me Theon comes across a lost boy not belonging anywhere. I Think GRRM has had fun writing him as a pathetic character who can do no right.To say he is brave is wide of the mark, if he were brave he would have killed himself long ago after the tortures began. Handpicked by the Blackfish as an outrider, part of Robbs guard where the "fighting was thickest", downed Ravens at the Twins and Whispering wood, one of the first people to charge in the whispering wood, took Winterfell with 20 men... yup. He's certainly not brave, completely pathetic and can do no right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shpati Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Handpicked by the Blackfish as an outrider, part of Robbs guard where the "fighting was thickest", downed Ravens at the Twins and Whispering wood, one of the first people to charge in the whispering wood, took Winterfell with 20 men... yup. He's certainly not brave, completely pathetic and can do no right. He's an interesting character. Braves in some aspects and cowardly in others. He's brave when things go according to plan. But he seems like a coward when the odds are against him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INCBlackbird Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 He's an interesting character. Braves in some aspects and cowardly in others. He's brave when things go according to plan. But he seems like a coward when the odds are against him. when is he cowardly when the odds are stacked against him? when he decided to die with Winterfell rather than flee, when he gave his men a choice in dying with him or fleeing, with the possibility of being left all alone? (which is btw more than anyone else ever did... the high lords all expect their men to fight for them no matter what... Theon is the only one who doesn't) Really... you can say a lot about Theon but he wasn't at coward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 He's an interesting character. Braves in some aspects and cowardly in others. He's brave when things go according to plan. But he seems like a coward when the odds are against him. He was willing to fight to the death against the Northmen at Winterfell, knowing he'd die and it took effort to go against Ramsay. In the end, I'm with Dagmer. "It was me who put your first sword in hand. I know you are no craven." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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