Diplomacy: The North discussion topic

[Leonardo]

Yeah it got sent to me the other night but I couldn't save it

[Leonardo]

Example Turn,and turn orders:

Turn 1

Robert Umber

Prestige: 7 (The mightiest fighters the North has to offer, these men often have fierce reputations which command respect, though is not always given by the haughtiest of Northern lords due to rumors of barbaric activities)

Legitimacy: 10 (The Umbers and their vassals keep the old ways such as First Night and blood sacrifice. By allowing them to hold to these traditions you command their undying loyalty, though it causes some in the realm to shun you)

Population: 340,000 / 2000 foot, 1000 men with garrons, 400 mounted

Income and coffers: Low / 120,000 GD

Resources: Lumber, Weirwood, Gold?*, precious resources?*, secrets?*

Traits and Notes:

Wildling raids - The Umbers suffer from raiding wildlings due to the lack of natural cover the mountain clans can boast, and some say they use passages and ways now lost to the North to pillage

Cave Systems - Underneath the North and extending even beyond the wall are vast caves of unknown origin; though some return with fables of riches untold waiting to be mined or secret passages with secrets, more return with tales of monsters and demons, or not at all

Weirwood Grove - The Umbers possess the largest natural grove of weirwoods south of the wall, rivalling Winterfell's godswood. The Umbers swear by its power and make regular prayer here, which they say explains their harvests which seem larger than should be possible...

STATE OF AFFAIRS:

-News is dire as your own daughter has been hauled off by the wildlings! Witnesses report them heading to one of the cave system's entrances, and your vassals urge you to march into the depths to retrieve her before the window is shut forever. If you do not act, some of your vassals may regard you as craven and cause them to lose respect. However to brave the deeps may have its own consequences...

-One of your patrols recently dissappeared while near the border of the Karstark lands; they were carrying tribute from one of your vassals and your advisors push for recompense from the Karstark's or an investigation into the matter at the least.

-A band of wildlings was caught and apprehended alive; while the zealots among you urge you to make a sacrifice to the old gods of them, your less devout say they may yield information about how the raiders are entering your lands.

EXAMPLE ORDERS:

-House Umber decides to establish a standing force of 500 men to help prevent and respond to wildling raids

-Send Arnolf 'The Quiet' Umber into the caves with 50 good men and light provisions. Tell him to bring charred wood to mark their ways through the caves and establish an outpost before venturing deep into the caves. Also send some of my best hounds and one of the raiders you caught, while the rest are sacrificed to the old gods.

-Dispatch a raven to Karhold inquiring as to the dissappearance of your men and this vassal tribute while simultaneously dispatching a small force to the vassal himself and another where the men supposedly vanished

As the game moves on, situations will become more complex and player to player interaction will begin to take the place of random events. Through this more subjective approach I will be able to cater more to the individual gameplay of players and more ably ensure a fun game

[Leonardo]

In light of comments I've gotten since wanting to start a new round as well as looking at some other games, I've decided the game needs to worry less about exact numbers and data, and focus more on fun. The result is a more subjective experience on the part of the gamemaster, and reducing the role of inter-player conflict a bit in favor of issues of statecraft and practicalities of ruling a fiefdom. Orders are much more free form as well as opening up whole new avenues for intrigue and subterfuge by hiding some of the mechanics of the game from the players, and instead having them focus on the state of affairs with less number crunching in mind. The events of the game and crises of players will be randomly selected, dependant on variables such as legitimacy and prestige. A high prestige makes NPC factions such as the Iron Bank of Braavos more likely to accept your dealings, while keeping a high legitimacy will reduce likelihood of revolts from vassals and smallfolk, as well as making any new policies more easily bearable by your subjects. If you remove the right of first night for example, you need to find some other way to appease your lords such as pillaging a neighboring kingdom; if you accept trade or settling from wildlings you may need to afford your vassals a greater degree of autonomy in dealing with their own borders. Player to player negotiation is also an important part of the game, possibly moreso now, as it is less about beating people out of the game and more about exploiting and manipulating them for your favor.

Not all factions will be equal or even equatable, and each essentially has different goals. The victor of this game will be determined through a number of factors, number one being surviving the game, and the next most important factors being overarching prestige and legitimacy throughout the game, and level of power in the North compared to starting position and resources. The new system enables much greater freedom in combat, intrigue, and diplomacy, though there is on important factor to keep in mind: you must act within character of your faction. You cannot deliberately sabotage your own success or act out of character in a way that is unjustifiable. I.E. while a Bolton may accept a Stark holding reign over the North, they would never miss a chance to usurp them if the conditions were ripe without very good cause. However, we are also not here to just repeat events of the series so these interventions will hopefully be minimal or non-existent, as the most important thing is to have fun; if you can present a credible argument why what you're doing makes sense, then all is green to go. While we can run with half this number, I have established a number of factions for the game and detailed them below. I'm debating on letting people rename the houses, though of course they will have full customization over the members with the new house creation system. You may have a maximum of 12 house members, though you will see why keeping numbers low can also be very important, and of course as previous one of these characters is the head of the faction.

Combat is much more freeform, enabling you to develop plans (within character of course, Tormund Giantsbane can't create strategies to rival Stannis Baratheon), exploit weaknesses and strengths(the cavalry of the rills is unparalleled, while no one is more loyal than the ground troops of the Starks, and none better outfitted than the men of White Harbour), and use your own generals and numbers to best effect. Who you put in charge of certain endeavors, not just combat, has great impact.

Prestige: The respect of the realm towards you

Legitimacy: The respect of your vassals towards you

Population: The amount of people in your lands / The amount of armies able to be summoned at game start

Income and coffers: The income and current funds of your regime

Resources: The resources available to your faction

Traits and Notes: Any special rules or notes about your faction

1. Winterfell

Prestige: 9 (Held in high regard by all but their envious rivals)

Legitimacy: 9 (The Stark's bloodline dates back beyond memory and their works and triumphs are known throughout the North; however with the recent trade blockade of the Boltons this is beginning to be questioned)

Population: 420,000 / 3,200 foot, 1000 mounted

Income and coffers: Medium / 250,000 GD

Resources: Furs, Lumber

Traits and Notes:

The Starks of Winterfell - Inspires great loyalty, great troop morale, and has inherent magic, as well as being the rightful rulers of the North.

The Library of Winterfell - Aside from Castle Black and White Harbor, the only notable area encouraging study is the library of Winterfell, where many an ancient tome are kept

2. The Neck

Prestige: 2 (Feared, but generally looked down on)

Legitimacy: 8 (The Reed's have ruled the neck for a long while, but with the lack of formality and legalism comes its own risks, meaning lords are more flighty in decision making)

Population: 70,000 / 1,400 crannogmen

Income and coffers: Low to None / 20,000 GD (The treasures of your people and whatever plunder is gleaned from disrupted trade)

Resources: Peat (Heating in winter is not a problem due to the abundant sources of peat)

Traits and Notes:

Bog Devils - The infamy of the bog devils is well known; they are impossible to subjugate(supposedly) and their tactics are no less formidable for being known throughout the realm.

Warrior Culture - A substantial more amount of fighting folk can be raised than would usually be possible with such a small population due to the warrior culture of the Neck

The Neck - The Crannogmen control the only land route north, which is their only real source of income as well. Allow too many foreigners in however, and you will upset your bannermen

3. White Harbor

Prestige: 5 (The fact that the Manderly's worship the seven hampers their credibility, though makes the port a much more tolerant atmosphere for traders worldwide, increasing trade revenue)

Legitimacy: 6 (The wealth of House Manderly keeps many of the more outspoken zealots quiet, but there are those of your vassals who wish for a return to the old gods)

Population: 650,000 / 5,000 foot, 1,500 mounted

Income and coffers: High / 800,000 GD

Resources: Silver, Luxury Resource - Ale

Traits and Notes:

White Knife: One of the best trade routes in the North, this is vital to trade and whoever controls it recieves extensive benefits

The Seven: Gives troops poor morale and causes friction in the city between the two factions of believers

Silver Mines: Though it takes more time than trade, you can pull your wealth directly out of the ground if need be by setting up subsidized work projects. Pulls directly from soldier pool however due to the hard labor

Trade Fleet: House Manderly possesses a large trade fleet and a few warships, with the ability to convert these for battle or expand this fleet

4. The Dreadfort

Prestige: 8 (Uncouth tactics have left a bitter taste in the mouth when uttering the name Bolton, but the fear the name inspires hushes most criticism)

Legitimacy: 10 (Fear has an iron grasp on your vassals, and with the new trade route having developed and in Bolton control, your lords applaud your every move)

Population: 400,000 / 3,000 foot, 1000 mounted

Income and coffers: Medium / 250,000 GD

Resources: Furs, Lumber, Fish

Traits and Notes:

Trade Route: The new road leading east to the sea has given the Boltons somewhat of a monopoly on the trade central to the North not flowing up the white knife, as few ships visit the eastern coast at all

The Flayed Man: House Bolton inspires great fear, giving solid morale(though not as good as some) and makes revolt very unlikely

5. Karhold

Prestige: 6 (House Karstark doesn't enjoy the same status as their namesake kin, though they are known as doughty fighters. Too rural and somewhat remote to be considered with the same reckoning as Stark or Bolton)

Legitimacy: 8 (Your vassals are humble, but enjoy staying at home and dislike your dealings with the Braavosi, who they claim have begun to settle some of your coastlines to enact their own small logging operations)

Population: 300,000 / 2,300 foot, 700 horse

Income and coffers: Low* / 100,000 GD

Resources: Lumber(See below), Fish

Traits and Notes:

Greatwood Trees - The trees if Karhold are both plentiful and one of a kind; the greatwood tree only takes root in great number here, and Braavosi shipmakers pay highly for this as well as lumber for firewood, representing most of the Karstark income

Rural Coasts - The coasts are broad and the fishing is here is some of the best in the North, though it begins to freeze during winter and are somewhat hard to police

Woodland - This confers a bonus while fighting on your land, while also taking more time to mobilize men as well as making it more difficult to keep them fed in one place

6. Mountain Clans

Prestige: 4 (Though never openly mocked in their hearing for fear of reprisal, it is well known the North generally looks down on the mountain clans as backwater folk only a rung above wildlings)

Legitimacy: 6 (House Liddle currently holds senior position among the clan chiefs, but due to the democratic and squabbling nature of the mountain clans, holding any central position of power requires constant maintenance and pleasing of chiefs)

Population: 200,000 / 3,000 fighting men each with their own garron and equipment, many with spares

Income and coffers: Low to none / 50,000 GD

Resources: Garrons, Goats

Traits and Notes:

True Northmen - Due to living in the rugged mountains, there are no troops more suited to cold conditions of true winter than the clansmen, and their garrons will last longer than any other northern mount, however they are not ridden into battle generally

Mountainous - Easy to defend the lands these folk no well, and they are difficult to subjugate, though it also is time consuming to mobilize forces

Warrior Culture - Instead of soaking up precious resources in winter, these folk prefer to die with steel in hand, and in general value combat highly, letting them levy more troops than other factions

7. The Rills

Prestige: 7 (House Ryswell is known far and wide for their horseflesh and command a sizable chunk of the North, though not capable of the shows of force House Stark or Bolton can muster)

Legitimacy: 8 (Your vassals are rich through the horse trade, though many also now push for ways to expand this revenue and find new sources of trade and land expand this monopoly)

Population: 280,000 / 1,800 foot and 1000 mounted

Income and coffers: Medium* / 500,000 GD

Resources: Horses

Traits and Notes:

Horsemen - The rills boast the swiftest and fastest horses of the north, as well as the best riders

Longships - A number of fishing boats are available as well as a few longships to House Ryswell to help protect its coasts

Irrigation - Due to the nature of the rills, farmland is abundant due to easy irrigation methods, though not fit for all crops

8. Barrowton

Prestige: 5 (In short, House Dustin is known for its mead, not for its famous victories in the field; however, despite being a younger house they have managed to grasp a sizable portion of land, a deal of it being the best farmland the North has to offer)

Legitimacy: 6 (With more food than is known what to do with, your lords press you to secure trade routes with which to expand revenue streams outside of the North and Saltspear. They also press you to continue colonizing land by issuing grants to their own vassals)

Population: 450,000 / 3,500 fighting men, 1000 mounted

Income and coffers: Medium / 400,000 GD

Resources: Mead, Honey, Dairy products

Traits and Notes:

Best Farmland - The lands beholden to Barrowton are both vast and fruitful; a great deal of the best land is already in full production, but much of the outliers such as Cape Kraken remain unsettled

Rapid Growth - Due to its location and bountiful harvests, Barrowton can experience a great deal of population growth and is a hotbed for refugess of war

9. Bear Island

Prestige: 3

Legitimacy: 9 (None question the rule of House Mormont but your coastal vassals, who provide nearly half your manpower)

Population: 170,000 / 1300 foot, 400 mounted

Income and coffers: Low / 75,000 GD

Resources: Fish, Exotic Furs

Traits and Notes:

Large Game - There are no better hunters than those of bear island, who tangle with the largest prey available south of the wall

South Coast - The South coast of Bear island remains fishable even in the deeps of winter, providing a steady though less consistent source of food, with the rest being free of ice the rest of the time

Skinchangers - House Mormont boasts a large number of skinchangers, rumors say

Fleet - The Bear has not forgotten the Kraken; House Mormont has the only sizable fleet this side of the North

10. Skaagos

Prestige: 5 (Fear is a paramount figure in this equation, causing many lords to shun the island all together, as they are known as slavers, cannibals, and worse)

Legitimacy: 9 (The Skaagosi are bloodthirsty people, who require raiding and plunder to sate them, as well as preservation of old customs such as first night. Give them this, and they are putty in your hands)

Population: 120,000

Income and coffers: Low to None, 10,000 GD

Resources: Fish, Slaves, Obsidian Mines, Unicorn Blood/Horn/Hair*

Traits and Notes:

Unicorns - These creatures reportedly have great magical properties; their hair is whispered to be unbreakable and unlike any other material found in the world, their blood is reputedly able to grant great gifts to its drinker at a price, and its horns are said to be able to heard across great distances, inspire men, and even contact the children of the forest

Wildling Trade - Along with having trade with the wildlings for what few luxury goods beyond the wall land has to offer, they also are saddled with many a wildling washing up on their coasts, who they enslave and take as thralls, even occassionally selling them to those from the free cities, though your lords do not appreciate dealings with foreigners

Obsidian Mines - The lands of Skaagos boast of the only obsidian mines in the north, though the profession and act of mining is mocked as low by all Skaagosi, fit work only for thralls

Cannibals - The Skaagosi have methods to avoid starvation and harsh winters that are not even considered, let alone spoken openly of; some say they even engage in it ritualistically

11. Last Hearth

Prestige: 7 (The mightiest fighters the North has to offer, these men often have fierce reputations which command respect, though is not always given by the haughtiest of Northern lords due to rumors of barbaric activities)

Legitimacy: 10 (The Umbers and their vassals keep the old ways such as First Night and blood sacrifice. By allowing them to hold to these traditions you command their undying loyalty, though it causes some in the realm to shun you)

Population: 340,000 / 2000 foot, 1000 men with garrons, 400 mounted

Income and coffers: Low / 120,000 GD

Resources: Lumber, Weirwood, Gold?*, precious resources?*, secrets?*

Traits and Notes:

Wildling raids - The Umbers suffer from raiding wildlings due to the lack of natural cover the mountain clans can boast, and some say they use passages and ways now lost to the North to pillage

Cave Systems - Underneath the North and extending even beyond the wall are vast caves of unknown origin; though some return with fables of riches untold waiting to be mined or secret passages with secrets, more return with tales of monsters and demons, or not at all

Weirwood Grove - The Umbers possess the largest natural grove of weirwoods south of the wall, rivalling Winterfell's godswood. The Umbers swear by its power and make regular prayer here, which they say explains their harvests which seem larger than should be possible...

12. The Wall

Prestige: 10

Legitimacy: 10

Population: 10,000 / 1,000 rangers, 3,000 foot, 1,000 mounted

Income and coffers: Low / 50,000 GD

Resources: None

Traits and Notes:

The Decline of the Watch - The Night's Watch is an institution of great prestige, however over the course of time this begins to decline as the watch forgets its true purpose

Libraries of Castle Black - If there is a center of learning of the North, it is ironically at the wall, where thousands of books lie dating from beyond living memory

13. Beyond The Wall

Prestige: 1 (You are a chief of the Free Folk, where respect and loyalty is earned through action, not birth)

Legitimacy: 1 (Your holdings are small, but those under your command are loyal)

Population: 500,000

Income and coffers: None / 100 GD in valuables

Resources: Giants, Mammoths, Obsidian

Traits and Notes:

Wildlings - The Free Folk are notoriously fickle and difficult to organize, and while forming armies is possible, forming labour groups is almost laughable

[Leonardo]

HOUSE MEMBER CREATION

You have 40 points to distribute amongst up to 12 house members, with 5 points maximum per category. These will directly affect outcomes of endeavors made by them, capable of greatly enhancing chances of success or failure. When the head of house dies, you take over as the next in line. Natural death count will be low and shouldn't be worried about much unless there are crises which directly affect this. A child's education, said cost of, mentor, and chance will determine how they progress as they age.

After creating your house, you do the same for your court, only with a maximum of 8 members and only 20 points to distribute. All other characters used will perform as if they had 0 in all categories.

Intrigue:

Statecraft:

Martial:

SAMPLE HOUSE:

Tywin Lannister

Intrigue: 3

Statecraft: 5

Martial: 4

Jaime Lannister

Intrigue: 0

Statecraft: 3

Martial: 5

Cersei Lannister

Intrigue: 1

Statecraft: 1

Martial: 0

Tyrion Lannister

Intrigue: 3

Statecraft: 4

Martial: 3

Kevan Lannister

Intrigue: 1

Statecraft: 5

Martial: 3

===

Anyways this is what I've been working with, combining elements of a number of different games to arrive at something more freeform and I think fun and representative of what we want in a game.

If people are digging this we can start pretty soon as WBT is wrapping up along with some of my recent commitments, or if people hate it we can go back to drawing boards, as I've gotten so many divided opinions on where to take the game or what to do or not do with it that it's getting a bit muddled on my end. I think the format they use over at Atlasforums which I linked though is awesome and more along the lines of what people want, instead of stabbing people in the back left and right. We just need to remove the RP elements of it and then it should be fine on here

[Leonardo]

http://s101.photobucket.com/user/Shyox/media/northDiplomacraft.jpg.html

A map I've worked up, should help get the visual side cooking ;D

I'm going to use opaque colors to show borders, and there are some settlements and things to add as well, but I think it's a solid start.

[Leonardo]

Bump for great justice

[Leonardo]

Or maybe people would prefer to play on a full map? The North has some really interesting dynamics is the reason I've been working on that one

[Leonardo]

Bump

[Leonardo]

Well I'm booting this up tomorrow hehe, so all critique and info is noted, but going to go forth with this new game format tomorrow since you can do everything you could in Diplomacy anyways.

[Leonardo]

Lastybump

[TheCrannogDweller]

I've been meaning to read this for a week, but I couldn't find the time. Still planning on starting it today?

[Leonardo]

Yep yep, gonna review and ready my materials then put together a topic, so within the next few hours it should be up.

[Alestor]

Are there still spaces as im interested in joining however I am new to playing diplomacy?

[Leonardo]

Are there still spaces as im interested in joining however I am new to playing diplomacy?

This new format we're running with requires virtually no previous knowledge aside from that of the series, as you can do essentially anything you want, only limited by your main character and your house's resources. The only real limit is anachronistic stuff, like you can't use advanced military tactics not available or set your smallfolk to making pocket watches and pushing into the industrial age.

The sign up is going up today, so look for it and it should explain it all, and also make sure you get your ten posts in so you can use the board's private message system, as much will be played through that.

[Alestor]

This new format we're running with requires virtually no previous knowledge aside from that of the series, as you can do essentially anything you want, only limited by your main character and your house's resources. The only real limit is anachronistic stuff, like you can't use advanced military tactics not available or set your smallfolk to making pocket watches and pushing into the industrial age.

The sign up is going up today, so look for it and it should explain it all, and also make sure you get your ten posts in so you can use the board's private message system, as much will be played through that.

Ok will do thanks

[Alestor]

Double post