Foreshadowing in the descriptions of Aegon and his sisters?

[OilyBlackstone]

My first post... I read TWOIAF and noticed a lot of things, which I'm hoping to discuss, so to start...

There is a passage in which Aegon and his two sisters' personalities are described, and I wondered if this could be foreshadowing the three heads of the dragon:

"This perhaps would be an apt place to discuss the differing characters of Aegon Targaryen and his sisters and queens. Visenya, eldest of the three siblings, was as much a warrior as Aegon himself, as comfortable in ringmail as in silk. She carried the Valyrian longsword Dark Sister, and was skilled in its use, having trained beside her brother since childhood. Though possessed of the silver- gold hair and purple eyes of Valyria, hers was a harsh, austere beauty. Even those who loved her best found Visenya stern, serious, unforgiving, and some said that she played with poisons and dabbled in dark sorceries."

Does that sound like Jon? Obviously not physically, although he looks like a Stark, which are described as being harsh looking. But the skill at arms, seriousness. Dabbling in dark sorceries.. Well he is quite involved with Mel.

"Aegon Targaryen himself, strangely, was as much an enigma to his contemporaries as to us. Armed with the Valyrian steel blade Blackfyre, he was counted amongst the greatest warriors of his age, yet he took no pleasure in feats of arms and never rode in tourney or mêlée. His mount was Balerion the Black Dread, but he flew only to battle, or to travel swiftly across land and sea. His commanding presence drew men to his banners, yet he had no close friends, save Orys Baratheon, the companion of his youth. Women were drawn to him, but Aegon remained ever faithful to his sisters. As king, he put great trust in his small council and his sisters, leaving much of the day- to- day governance of the realm to them yet did not hesitate to take command when he found it necessary. Though he dealt harshly with rebels and traitors, he was open- handed with former foes who bent the knee."

Sort of sounds like Danaerys, which would make sense with the gender reversal. And she's done all that dealing harshly and open-handed ness in Meereen, uses a council but is not close to them, and hates the fighting pits. And rides the black dragon.

"Rhaenys, youngest of the three Targaryens, was all her sister was not: playful, curious, impulsive, given to flights of fancy. No true warrior, Rhaenys loved music, dancing, and poetry, and supported many a singer, mummer, and puppeteer. Yet it was said that Rhaenys spent more time on dragonback than her brother and sister combined, for above all things she loved to fly. She once was heard to say that before she died she meant to fly Meraxes across the Sunset Sea to see what lay upon its western shores. Whilst no one ever questioned Visenyas fidelity to her brother/husband, Rhaenys surrounded herself with comely young men, and (it was whispered) even entertained some in her bedchambers on the nights when Aegon was with her elder sister. Yet despite these rumors, observers at court could not fail to note that the king spent ten nights with Rhaenys for every night with Visenya."

I changed the order these are given in the book because the one who is not Jon or Dany is the one we don't really know. So.. Even though I am not a massive fan of the theory, this kind of sounds like Tyrion. With his whoring and not being a true warrior and loving flying dragons (in theory). He also went all the way to the wall to see what it was like, and he is playful, curious and impulsive.

Because I don't like the theory, I tried to think of others that would fit the description. The only one I could think of who is into silly things is Sansa, which is even more mental than Tyrion. And maybe Bran who is also no true warrior but obsessed with flying. But I think he's too serious for the description.

Oh, also it indicates that Jon and Dany get swords, but not the third. jon has his already and I have a theory about Dany's but I will leave that for another post.

[Kimiya]

Nice catch,indeed.And it kinda supports the idea that Tyrion is one of the heads.

[Dany's Golden Fleece]

You hit a spot about Jon, dabbling in magic. Towards the end of ADWD he was becoming more and more accepting of Mel's prophecies and magic. I will be interested in what the assassination attempt/death will do to him. As GRRM said, everything has a cost.

For the record I do think the three heads are Dany, Jon and Tyrion.

[Ramsay's Penguins]

I'm trying to figure out a way the Conquest mirrors these threes actions.

[Maester Drew]

Does Tyrion have to be related to the Targaryens to ride a Dragon? Because as you mentioned he does fit Rhaenys' description.

[Ramsay's Penguins]

Does Tyrion have to be related to the Targaryens to ride a Dragon? Because as you mentioned he does fit Rhaenys' description.

Targ (or Valyrian) blood is highly likely necessary. If you subscribe to Tyrion being Joanna and Aerys child then it works out.

[not in the face]

Sounds like Brienne (V), Jon (A), and Dany ® to me.

[the conquering bastard 25]

Umm this is all backwards.

Jon is more like Aegon

Doesn't like heights

As a northern not much for tourney and JS isn't the show off type anyway.

JS also dresses in black like Aegon

One friend from childhood, Sam Tarly

His sword skills and play is because he needs the practice not because he loves the song of swords.

JS keeps to himself and most don't understand what makes him tick. He isn't like !most bastards quick to shed their humble beginnings. Like Dustin claims most bastards do.

JS has a way of making friends and allies even when he's not trying. Look at the speech he gave to the wildlings whom were Stannis prisoners, he got63 to follow him. Then when he let's the wildlings through they all but made JS KbtW. Last his speech I the shieldhall, he had king, queen,NW and Wildlings ready to march with him.

Dany is the Rhaenys of the piece

Arya is much more like Viserys with her training as FM, being taught poison by the waif,and magic by kindly man. Her list she never forgets a slight. Lyanna whom Arya looks like by Kaven said LSs beauty was a wild and harsh one.

[barristan-b]

I know she's young but Shireen and Rhaenys seem pretty similar. Not saying Shireen is a dragon rider but she's one of Egg's descendants left through Rhaelle's side.

Egg's great-grand kids: Stannis, Jon, Dany, Shireen...also Gendry, Edric, and the shadow assassin technically

I think the riders could come out of left field minus Jon IMO.

[True.Edged]

Umm this is all backwards.

Jon is more like Aegon

Doesn't like heights

As a northern not much for tourney and JS isn't the show off type anyway.

JS also dresses in black like Aegon

One friend from childhood, Sam Tarly

His sword skills and play is because he needs the practice not because he loves the song of swords.

JS keeps to himself and most don't understand what makes him tick. He isn't like !most bastards quick to shed their humble beginnings. Like Dustin claims most bastards do.

JS has a way of making friends and allies even when he's not trying. Look at the speech he gave to the wildlings whom were Stannis prisoners, he got63 to follow him. Then when he let's the wildlings through they all but made JS KbtW. Last his speech I the shieldhall, he had king, queen,NW and Wildlings ready to march with him.

Dany is the Rhaenys of the piece

Arya is much more like Viserys with her training as FM, being taught poison by the waif,and magic by kindly man. Her list she never forgets a slight. Lyanna whom Arya looks like by Kaven said LSs beauty was a wild and harsh one.

That seems a much more likely order. Jon is much more like Aegon than Dany, who is nothing like Aegon.

[LionOfCasterlyRock]

Sounds more like king John Targaryen (Aegon) with his sister-wife's Arya (Visenya) and Sansa (Rhaenys) to be honest.

[Annara Snow]

Sounds more like king John Targaryen (Aegon) with his sister-wife's Arya (Visenya) and Sansa (Rhaenys) to be honest.

Except nothing at all, since Sansa is not really like Rhaenys, and Arya is absolutely nothing like Visenya.

What we have here is a bad case of "Tomboy and Girly Girl" stereotyping.

Also, the popularity of Starkcest and the fact some people take it seriously as something that may actually happen, is the proof that waiting for TWOW has made this fandom go a lil bit berserk.

[The Wolf Lord's Daughter]

Sounds more like king John Targaryen (Aegon) with his sister-wife's Arya (Visenya) and Sansa (Rhaenys) to be honest.

Somehow I doubt Jon would marry either of his sisters. Plus Arya isn't all that like Visenya, except for being a badass, unforgiving and having dabbled with magic and Sansa isn't really like Rhaenys (I can't see Sansa forcing political marriages on anyone nor is she particularly fond of murmmers and doesn't like riding) and Jon clearly loves Arya (AS A SISTER) much more than he loves Sansa (I don't doubt that he cares for her, but Arya and Jon have the strongest sibling bond in the series) when Aegon is said to have preferred Rhaenys over Visenya. Plus, Arya is adventurous, wants to explore new places and loves riding, much like Rhaenys while Sansa is connected to the Vale, which had surrendered to Visenya. You could perhaps also say that Sansa is more serious than her sister, which Visenya was known for, but I'm not so sure about that.

[Annara Snow]

Somehow I doubt Jon would marry either of his sisters. Plus Arya isn't all that like Visenya, except for being a badass, unforgiving and having dabbled with magic and Sansa isn't really like Rhaenys (I can't see Sansa forcing political marriages on anyone nor is she particularly fond of murmmers and doesn't like riding) and Jon clearly loves Arya (AS A SISTER) much more than he loves Sansa (I don't doubt that he cares for her, but Arya and Jon have the strongest sibling bond in the series) when Aegon is said to have preferred Rhaenys over Visenya. Plus, Arya is adventurous, wants to explore new places and loves riding, much like Rhaenys while Sansa is connected to the Vale, which had surrendered to Visenya. You could perhaps also say that Sansa is more serious than her sister, which Visenya was known for, but I'm not so sure about that.

Rhaenys was impulsive and playful, Sansa is quite the opposite - she has the calmest temper in the family besides Ned, and always acted according to rules of courtesy even before she learned to hide her feelings. She doesn't even like riding horses, as you mentioned, let alone being obsessed with riding a dragon like Rhaenys. The only similarity between the two is that they both loved music, but for Sansa that has always been connected to the romance of love and chivalry, while Rhaenys doesn't come off as incredibly romantic, more pragmatic (sponsoring singers so they could make songs about glorious deeds of the Targaryen trio) in combination with fun-loving. Visenya and Arya also have no common interests other than wielding a sword, Visenya was stern, serious and unforgiving - which sounds like neither Arya nor Sansa (one may claim that Arya is "unforgiving" but "stern and serious", no). If anything, Arya is the impulsive one, though she's otherwise nothing like Rhaenys. Visenya was all about the dynasty and power, which Arya doesn't care about (and neither does Sansa), she never even wanted to live the life of a highborn lady, hang out with smallfolk, and hated the idea of political marriage. I certainly can't see her marrying for duty and being a 'dutiful' wife. In fact, neither Arya or Sansa would want to marry for "duty" and politics - Arya has always rejected the idea, and Sansa has come to reject marriage since she's realized it's got nothing to do with love - and they sure as hell would not want to marry their brother. Or be in a polygamous marriage.

Visenya, Rhaenys, Sansa and Arya are four completely different people - surprise, surprise. The only reason why anyone would compare the first two to the other and claim they're similar is total stereotyping of all women into "tomboys and girly girls" (' Visenya liked war and had a badass sword, so she's the Tomboy, and Rhaenys liked music and dancing and was a diplomat, so she's the girly girl...').

[LionOfCasterlyRock]

Also, the popularity of Starkcest and the fact some people take it seriously as something that may actually happen, is the proof that waiting for TWOW has made this fandom go a lil bit berserk.

LoL ''Starkcest'' didn't know about that one, thanks. :lol:

I really only brought it up because it is such a ridiculous idea.

But having carbon copies of peoples personalities 300 years apart is also as silly.

So it's a no on the whole foreshadowing thing imo.

[TheKingoftheSevenKingdoms]

Im pretty sure Jon is meant to be a parallel to Aegon. dunno bout daenerys

[Fire Eater]

My first post... I read TWOIAF and noticed a lot of things, which I'm hoping to discuss, so to start...

There is a passage in which Aegon and his two sisters' personalities are described, and I wondered if this could be foreshadowing the three heads of the dragon:

"This perhaps would be an apt place to discuss the differing characters of Aegon Targaryen and his sisters and queens. Visenya, eldest of the three siblings, was as much a warrior as Aegon himself, as comfortable in ringmail as in silk. She carried the Valyrian longsword Dark Sister, and was skilled in its use, having trained beside her brother since childhood. Though possessed of the silver- gold hair and purple eyes of Valyria, hers was a harsh, austere beauty. Even those who loved her best found Visenya stern, serious, unforgiving, and some said that she played with poisons and dabbled in dark sorceries."

Does that sound like Jon? Obviously not physically, although he looks like a Stark, which are described as being harsh looking. But the skill at arms, seriousness. Dabbling in dark sorceries.. Well he is quite involved with Mel.

Except Jon isn't described as unforgiving. that is the opposite of the character we know. He doesn't dabble in sorcery either.

"Aegon Targaryen himself, strangely, was as much an enigma to his contemporaries as to us. Armed with the Valyrian steel blade Blackfyre, he was counted amongst the greatest warriors of his age, yet he took no pleasure in feats of arms and never rode in tourney or mêlée. His mount was Balerion the Black Dread, but he flew only to battle, or to travel swiftly across land and sea. His commanding presence drew men to his banners, yet he had no close friends, save Orys Baratheon, the companion of his youth. Women were drawn to him, but Aegon remained ever faithful to his sisters. As king, he put great trust in his small council and his sisters, leaving much of the day- to- day governance of the realm to them yet did not hesitate to take command when he found it necessary. Though he dealt harshly with rebels and traitors, he was open- handed with former foes who bent the knee."

Sort of sounds like Danaerys, which would make sense with the gender reversal. And she's done all that dealing harshly and open-handed ness in Meereen, uses a council but is not close to them, and hates the fighting pits. And rides the black dragon.

Dany isn't described as an enigma, and Aegon, unlike Dany, actually planned and prepared for years before launching his campaigns. Dany's campaign in Meereen was more spur of the moment, and she didn't make any long-term plans. She does ride a black dragon, and she has been liked to the Conqueror a lot.

I think Aegon's description fits Rhaegar in that he is described as an enigma.

"Rhaenys, youngest of the three Targaryens, was all her sister was not: playful, curious, impulsive, given to flights of fancy. No true warrior, Rhaenys loved music, dancing, and poetry, and supported many a singer, mummer, and puppeteer. Yet it was said that Rhaenys spent more time on dragonback than her brother and sister combined, for above all things she loved to fly. She once was heard to say that before she died she meant to fly Meraxes across the Sunset Sea to see what lay upon its western shores. Whilst no one ever questioned Visenyas fidelity to her brother/husband, Rhaenys surrounded herself with comely young men, and (it was whispered) even entertained some in her bedchambers on the nights when Aegon was with her elder sister. Yet despite these rumors, observers at court could not fail to note that the king spent ten nights with Rhaenys for every night with Visenya."

I changed the order these are given in the book because the one who is not Jon or Dany is the one we don't really know. So.. Even though I am not a massive fan of the theory, this kind of sounds like Tyrion. With his whoring and not being a true warrior and loving flying dragons (in theory). He also went all the way to the wall to see what it was like, and he is playful, curious and impulsive.

Because I don't like the theory, I tried to think of others that would fit the description. The only one I could think of who is into silly things is Sansa, which is even more mental than Tyrion. And maybe Bran who is also no true warrior but obsessed with flying. But I think he's too serious for the description.

Oh, also it indicates that Jon and Dany get swords, but not the third. jon has his already and I have a theory about Dany's but I will leave that for another post.

Tyrion isn't Rhaenys as Rhaenys was well-loved while Tyrion's situation is the opposite. Tyrion also never had any particular love for singers, mummers and puppeteers. However, I do think like Rhaenys, him and his dragonmount will be killed.

[Buffy13]

While we all have our preferences on who the "Dragon has 3 heads" will be, here are mine based on personalities as well as the dragons themselves:

Prophesy: Rhaegal: The Dragon has three heads, there must be one more.

2 BC - Children of Aerion Targaryen- The original 3 Dragons

1 Boy, 2 Girls

Aegon Targaryen (very charismatic, faithful and commanding Conqueror, enigma) - dragon Balerion, called the Black Dread - His fire was as black as his scales

Visenya (stern, serious, seductress and unforgiving, dabbled in sorcery)- dragon Vhagar- Vhagar's breath was so hot that it could melt the armour of a knight and cook him inside, The colour of Vhagar's scales, horns, wing bones and spinal crest is unknown

Rhaenys(playful, curious and a flirt)-dragon Meraxes- had golden eyes and silver scales

Orys Baratheon - bastard- no dragon -Orys was the rumored bastard half-brother of Aegon I Targaryen by their father Aerion. Known as Orys One-Hand after his sword hand was chopped off by the Dornish.

300AC Today - I think the new team will be the reverse, 2 Boys, 1 Girl

2 Boys, 1 Girl

Daenerys, Mother of Dragons- dragon Drogon - Drogon is believed to be the reincarnation of Balerion the Black Dread, but Daenerys decides to give him a new name for his new life. Drogon's scales are black, his horns and spinal plates are blood red,and his eyes are smouldering red pits. Drogon's flame is black fire shot with red and the wash of its heat can be felt 30 feet away. His wing flap sounds like the clap of thunder. He bleeds black blood. He is named for her dead husband, Drogo.

Jon Snow, skinchanger(children of the forest) - dragon Rhaegal - Rhaegal has green and bronze scales. His green scales are a dark green, the green of moss in the deep woods at dusk, just before the light fades, and they gleam like jade. His teeth and claws are black. His eyes are bronze, brighter than polished shields, and they glow with their own heat. His flame is orange-and-yellow fire shot through with veins of green. He was named for her brother, Rhaegar Targaryen.

Tyrion, dwarf, playful and a flirt - dragon Viserion - The majority of Viserion's scales are cream, but his horns, wing bones and spinal crest are gold colored. His teeth are shining black daggers. His eyes are two pools of molten gold and his flame is pale gold shot through with red and orange. Viserion has a roar that would send a hundred lions running. Although his true color is cream he is often referred to as the white dragon. He is named for her brother, Viserys Targaryen.

Stannis Baratheon or Shireen- bastard dragon - Assuming he and Melisandre raise a stone dragon. Note: Melisandre urges Stannis to sacrifice Robert's bastard Edric Storm to complete a spell she claims will raise dragons from stone and grant him more power. I'm thinking this won't work out too well.

Interesting tidbits:

Dragons old and young, true and false, bright and dark. And you. A small man with a big shadow, snarling in the midst of it all. – Moqorro, to Tyrion Lannister. (midst definition: in the middle)

Born-Age in year 300AC - Joffrey's death 1st of the year in 300AC

Daenerys:284AC - 16

Jon Snow:283AC - 17

Vary's Aegon Targaryen (pretender?): 282AC - 18

Tyrion(bastard): 273AC - 27

Maester Aemon: 198AC to 300AC - 102 = DEAD

Brynden Rivers(bastard, Blackwood, Three-Eyed Raven): 175AC to 252AC(presumed dead) @300AC he would be - 125

Shireen Baratheon: 289AC - 11

Bran Stark:290AC - 10 - Told by Brynden Rivers he will learn how to fly (fly what we do not know)

Another interesting tidbit:

The original 3 dragons were close in age, 1 to 2 years apart, depending how you calculate. Aegon being in the middle of his 2 sisters - Rhaenys and Visenya. If the opposite were to happen here....Daenerys would have to be in the middle of 2 brothers...but this doesn't work out for either Tyrion or Aegon, it would have to be a younger boy, the only one I can fit here would be Bran(but not a Targ). My guess as of right now is Tyrion regardless....but need to wait for the next book to get more pieces to this puzzle.

Problem Prophesy: Why does Daenerys need to not trust Tyrion and Aegon? Could this support the above? or be dark instead of bright?

"No. Hear me, Daenerys Targaryen. The glass candles are burning.

Soon comes the pale mare(bloody flux), and after her the others. Kraken (Victarion Greyjoy) and dark flame(Moqorro), lion(Tyrion) and griffin(Jon Connington), the sun's son(Quentyn Martell) and the mummer's dragon(Vary's Aegon Targaryen). Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal.

[Rhaegar Targaryen's Ghost]

I really like this post, because I also focused on the descriptions of the three conquerors. I've always just assumed that Dany/Drogon=Aegon/Balerion, Jon/Rhaegal=Visenya/Vhagar, Tyrion/Viserion=Rhaenys/Meraxes.

BUT, these descriptions changed things for me.

Aegon is focused, determined, no pleasure in feats of arms, one close friend, dealt harshly with traitors, open handed with former foes who bent the knee.

Jon is focused, determined, no pleasure in feats of arms. One close friend, dealt harshly with traitors, and open handed with former foes who bent the knee.

These are scary similar, and make me question whether Jon is meant to be Aegon. This seems pretty complete.

Visenya is a warrior, skilled, has a harsh beauty, stern, serious, unforgiving, and dabbles in dark sorceries.

Rhaenys was playful, curious, impulsive, skilled rider.

These two are much less a perfect mold of characters that we have seen. Obviously Dany will be one of the riders, but Aegon's two sisters seem to be a blend of Dany. Dany started as more of a Rhaenys and is turning into a Visenya.

I too believe that Tyrion will be the third dragon rider, but he doesn't seem to fit these perfectly either. He is playful and curious but has become serious and unforgiving.

To me, Visenya sounds like Arya, but I don't think that she will become a dragon rider, and Rhaenys sounds like Arienne, but I don't think she will be a dragon rider at all.

So to conclude, I still think Tyrion, Dany, and Jon will be the riders. But I now think that Jon is the Aegon character, and Dany and Tyrion are blends of the other two.

[Aquamarine]

I belive GRRM once said that it isn't necessary for dragon rider to be Targaryen. But I find that intresting:

In GRRM's original draft Jon and Tyrion were meant to fight over Arya, and wasn't it said that Dance was supposed to happen? So if Daenerys was supposed to come in second book, then they'd have dragons necessary for Dance. So they were (maybe) supposed to fight while the best of three (Dany) would rule? That then makes Dany=Aegon, because I don't really think Visenya and Rhaenys liked each other so much, they didn't seem to have any similar trait.

But in the other side, don't Aegon, Visenya and Rhaenys resemble Baratheon brothers? Visenya=Cold, unpopular and oldest one - similar to Stannis Aegon= The one who became the king, the warrior, the middle - Robert and Rhaenys=The most warm, southen and youngest one- Renly?

At least I think Stannis is the oldest, but I didn't read the books in long time so excuse me if I'm wrong.