Fire Consumes, But Cold Preserves.....The Wall....

[Varamyr6skins]

In AFFC in one of Samwell Tarlys chapters, Maester Aemon's health is failing, Sam wonders to himself how Aemon is 102 years old, and his wits are wondering, but his wits never wondered at the Wall.

About a page and half later, Aemon Targaryen says "I should have known, Fire consumes, but cold preserves....the Wall....Jon SNow could not have known but I should have known.

It's pretty clear the meaning behind the words. Their is magic at the wall. "One of the hinges of the world" as Melisandre put it.

The Wall preserves.

Now Maester Aemon has Targaryen blood as well as Kings blood. This may play into how the spells woven into the Wall effect Aemon.

My hypothesis is that Jon Snow, in the state he is in at the end of ADWD, won't need any kiss of life (fire) from Mel. The cold preserves.

I believe being at the Wall will be anough to help keep Jon alive, or from dieing. He has Stark Blood, blood of the first men. He is a warg, a skinchanger....and he may have Kings blood....Through Rhaegar or by the simple fact the Rob Stark wrote in his will that Jon Snow will be legitimized and made his heir. well Rob Stark is dead, and there are no heirs, yet atleast. Jon Snow, rather Jon Stark is the King in the North, he has Kingsblood regardless of R+L=J.

Jon Snow, Jon Stark will be ok, 100%.

Fire Consumes, But Cold preserves.

[DarkSister1001]

In AFFC in one of Samwell Tarlys chapters, Maester Aemon's health is failing, Sam wonders to himself how Aemon is 102 years old, and his wits are wondering, but his wits never wondered at the Wall.

About a page and half later, Aemon Targaryen says "I should have known, Fire consumes, but cold preserves....the Wall....Jon SNow could not have known but I should have known.

It's pretty clear the meaning behind the words. Their is magic at the wall. "One of the hinges of the world" as Melisandre put it.

The Wall preserves.

Now Maester Aemon has Targaryen blood as well as Kings blood. This may play into how the spells woven into the Wall effect Aemon.

My hypothesis is that Jon Snow, in the state he is in at the end of ADWD, won't need any kiss of life (fire) from Mel. The cold preserves.

I believe being at the Wall will be anough to help keep Jon alive, or from dieing. He has Stark Blood, blood of the first men. He is a warg, a skinchanger....and he may have Kings blood....Through Rhaegar or by the simple fact the Rob Stark wrote in his will that Jon Snow will be legitimized and made his heir. well Rob Stark is dead, and there are no heirs, yet atleast. Jon Snow, rather Jon Stark is the King in the North, he has Kingsblood regardless of R+L=J.

Jon Snow, Jon Stark will be ok, 100%.

Fire Consumes, But Cold preserves.

I like it. Unless there's a more sinister meaning hiding behind the quote and the wall preserves everything, even the dead. All those who perished since the dawn would be available for reanimation.

[rozemarijn]

Nice! It also explains a bit how Bloodraven survived so long, not just the magic of the tree but some magic around. Does that makes sense?

Maybe dragons would survive better at the wall as well?

[Steelborn]

There was a Stark lord commander who served for 60 years (although he was 10 when he was chosen :lol: ).

But how do they know who has king's blood? IIRC, there was a talk saying Mance doesn't have that blood because he was no true king. But the Targaryens were no kings before Aegon decided to conquer Westeros as well.

The Wall has magic of course, but I'm not sure if it's about king's blood. Maybe the cold in that part of the world has its supernatural forces (like the one The Others bring, but to a lesser extent) and the polar opposite in this world is fire and heat which are the "destructive side".

[Starks of Winter]

In AFFC in one of Samwell Tarlys chapters, Maester Aemon's health is failing, Sam wonders to himself how Aemon is 102 years old, and his wits are wondering, but his wits never wondered at the Wall.

About a page and half later, Aemon Targaryen says "I should have known, Fire consumes, but cold preserves....the Wall....Jon SNow could not have known but I should have known.

It's pretty clear the meaning behind the words. Their is magic at the wall. "One of the hinges of the world" as Melisandre put it.

The Wall preserves.

Now Maester Aemon has Targaryen blood as well as Kings blood. This may play into how the spells woven into the Wall effect Aemon.

My hypothesis is that Jon Snow, in the state he is in at the end of ADWD, won't need any kiss of life (fire) from Mel. The cold preserves.

I believe being at the Wall will be anough to help keep Jon alive, or from dieing. He has Stark Blood, blood of the first men. He is a warg, a skinchanger....and he may have Kings blood....Through Rhaegar or by the simple fact the Rob Stark wrote in his will that Jon Snow will be legitimized and made his heir. well Rob Stark is dead, and there are no heirs, yet atleast. Jon Snow, rather Jon Stark is the King in the North, he has Kingsblood regardless of R+L=J.

Jon Snow, Jon Stark will be ok, 100%.

Fire Consumes, But Cold preserves.

:agree: :agree: :agree:

[Ser Tongs]

I like the theory, but don't think that's what happens.

I think the entire prequel involving Varymyr six skins talking about his "true life" and "second life" was all to make us understand that Jon could warg into Ghost, get revived, and warg back.

[Steelborn]

I like the theory, but don't think that's what happens.

I think the entire prequel involving Varymyr six skins talking about his "true life" and "second life" was all to make us understand that Jon could warg into Ghost, get revived, and warg back.

Also, Melisandre's vision "first a man, then a wolf, then a man again".

[Varamyr6skins]

Right, It's a given that Jon will warg into ghost....I'm almost certain that's what happened at the end of his last chapter..."He never felt the fourth knife, only the cold...."

...only the cold.....whatever cold he felt he's feeling through ghost. He didn't feel the fourth knife, But he felt cold. In Varamyrs chapter when his true life ends, (TRUE DEATH) he feels a shock of cold as if being pummeled into an ice cold lake or tub. Then he began to float and found his way to his wolf pack. Jon will ofcourse do the same. But the Wall has some preserving powers. Varamyr didn't die at the wall, he died beyond it. Jon is physically at the wall. Whatever powers the wall has on death, it will affect Jon.

Bloodraven - We don't know if he ever died. But it's stated from the children of the forest within the cave that Bloodraven draws his life from the tree.

And we have a case of ser Wynton Stout (I think I got the name right, who almost would have made a fine lord commander, but his wits wander. So clearly the wall has no effect on him. Why?

Because he has no Kings blood? Probly. Because he's not a warg? Probably. All the Stark children are wargs.

There is obviously something special about them, in their blood. I believe it's that something that allows the Wall's magic to have an effect on them. I also believe that Aemon Targaryen had that same "something"

[starwalker]

jon gets frozen at the wall after he dies, but it will not hurt him, only put him in a coma, because he has the blood of the kings of the north.

they then try to burn him, but since he also has targaryen blood, the fire doesn't affect him profoundly either.

what happens when you mix fire and ice. you get water. therefore, jon snow will warg into a mermaid, to protect the realm from ...... uhhhh......undead sharks or something. Also because he has a thing for redheads, and he will hook up with ariel after GRRM sells the rights to Disney

Its the only sensible explanation.

[ReleaseTheHound]

jon gets frozen at the wall after he dies, but it will not hurt him, only put him in a coma, because he has the blood of the kings of the north.

they then try to burn him, but since he also has targaryen blood, the fire doesn't affect him profoundly either.

what happens when you mix fire and ice. you get water. therefore, jon snow will warg into a mermaid, to protect the realm from ...... uhhhh......undead sharks or something. Also because he has a thing for redheads, and he will hook up with ariel after GRRM sells the rights to Disney

Its the only sensible explanation.

Merjon under the sea I know oh oh oh

[Tyler Stark]

I really like this explination on how Jon survives more than him becoming reanimated from the Red Woman or him Warging into Ghost until his body somehow is reanimated for him to return to.

[Bob the Fiddler]

Also, remember the blue rose in the wall of ice from Dany's vision in the House of the Undying. I think that is a reference to Jon's body and that his body might be in a deep freeze for quite some time until Dany finds him. During that time, he will be in Ghost venturing around or beyond the wall. This is how Jon will survive when the Other's show up and over run the Castle Black/the Wall. Body protected by the magic of the Wall; soul protected by warging into Ghost.

Of Post Warg Question: It was posted that GRRM said that the giant wolf pack headed by Nymeria in the Riverlands is a Chekov's gun waiting for a target. Here's the question. Will Arya control Nymeria's wolf pack by warging into her, or will Arya die some where in Braavos or elsewhere, warg into Nymeria after her "true death" and starting ravishing all things Frey? Sorry for the hijack!

[SevasTra82]

Also, remember the blue rose in the wall of ice from Dany's vision in the House of the Undying. I think that is a reference to Jon's body and that his body might be in a deep freeze for quite some time until Dany finds him. During that time, he will be in Ghost venturing around or beyond the wall. This is how Jon will survive when the Other's show up and over run the Castle Black/the Wall. Body protected by the magic of the Wall; soul protected by warging into Ghost.

Of Post Warg Question: It was posted that GRRM said that the giant wolf pack headed by Nymeria in the Riverlands is a Chekov's gun waiting for a target. Here's the question. Will Arya control Nymeria's wolf pack by warging into her, or will Arya die some where in Braavos or elsewhere, warg into Nymeria after her "true death" and starting ravishing all things Frey? Sorry for the hijack!

I do know GRRM said in an interview that Nymeria is going to play a major role coming up. Nymeria is the key to bringing Arya back into the main storyline (as she's a little disconnected right now). I don't see GRRM playing the same trick on two people...only Jon will "die" and warg into Ghost fully. That won't happen with Arya also.

As for Jon, it does make sense that his life would be conserved at the Wall. But keep in mind, Jon's hand got burned in the first book, and it affected him...so the theory he "wont burn" may not suffice. If I remember correctly, It is said that Targaryens cannot be affected by "dragonfire" ...not "fire" in general. Also, I don't see The Others attacking the wall...as I think The Others are the ones that put The Wall up to began with. (Come on...an "ice" wall is suppose to keep out creatures made of "ice"? Never made sense to me).

Either way, there is a lot that has not been explained quite yet with The Others, The Wall, and all the magical things that go along with it. I believe Samwell and Jaqar are going to uncover quite a bit of secrets at the Citadel in the next book....

[Steelborn]

As for Jon, it does make sense that his life would be conserved at the Wall. But keep in mind, Jon's hand got burned in the first book, and it affected him...so the theory he "wont burn" may not suffice. If I remember correctly, It is said that Targaryens cannot be affected by "dragonfire" ...not "fire" in general. Also, I don't see The Others attacking the wall...as I think The Others are the ones that put The Wall up to began with. (Come on...an "ice" wall is suppose to keep out creatures made of "ice"? Never made sense to me).

But Rhaenyra Targaryen was roasted alive during the Dance of the Dragons and recently, only Drogon's breath had consequences on Dany in the end of aDwD.

Back on topic. As for the Wall, I used to believe that also until I've read Storm. If I were an Other, I wouldn't build a magic wall with magic against my own race, at best I would make it against humans. I agree that Sam and Jaqen are in the Citadel for that reasons, Jaqen is hard to predict though.

[Varamyr6skins]

BOB THE FIDDLER - No apology needed, the more the merrier!

Back to the original thought -

What Maester Aemon said more than suggests the preserving effects the wall has on certain individuals. Or rather the spells woven into the wall and the effects they have on certain individuals.

Now the way the story is set up, with the prologue chapter featuring Varamyr and his "true death" and what followed, with Thoros of Myr, a red priest of R'hollor giving Beric Dondarrion the kiss of life multiple times to bring him back from the dead, Melisandre being located at the Wall in the presence of Jon Snow at the time of his stabbing, as well as her words to Jon Snow

"You will have grave need of me" and "Winter is almost upon us, I am your only hope "

definitely points to Melisandre reviving Jon. But what if he never dies? What if the Wall preserves his life force, and all Melisandre does is heal him....with fire. Maybe by sacrificing Ghost....

Sacrifice is a big part of series, as well as a big part of healing. Every time Thoros brought back Dondarrion, Dondarrion was a little less himself each time.

Therefore if Melisandre does bring back to life a dead Jon Snow, Jon would be a little less himself.

In my minds eye I see Ghost being used somehow in some form of sacrifice, to revive Jon Snow. I see Jon having Red Eyes and White hair, like Ghost, and all his senses are heightened, like Ghost.

And one line that really stuck out to me went something like this......

"...Ghost was different. Ghost was part of him."

Wether or not Jon Snow actually dies or not, I think as long as he is different, or atleast appears to be different.

On another note....if there is a dragon at the Wall...the Walls magic may have been able to preserve the Dragon in some fashion. So it doesn't age maybe. same as Dragons eggs.

[Bob the Fiddler]

I don't think Ghost can live without Jon, nor Jon without Ghost.

I do think that Jon might need his death/sacrifice by ice magic moment to parallel Dany (assuming you believe Jon to be Ice and Dany to be Fire)

Dany has already had her death/sacrifice by fire moment at Drogo's funeral pyre. She should be dead but she survived by Mari Mazdur blood magic or by divine right (who knows)?!

Regardless Dany did not lose her soul in them process. In fact she came out a full fledged badass Mother of Dragons. I'm thinking Jon needs to have a similar moment on his journey but the "ice" equivalent.

[Marakesh]

The Wall clearly has magic to it, I'm just not sure what that means yet. For instance, I think Melisandre's theory is wrong. We know from the alchemist during the KL siege that fire magic is more powerful when dragons are alive. I think its just her explanation of this effect, but she doesn't know the whole of it and so she incorrectly attributes it to the Wall. Does the cold preserve Maester Aemon or does the wall? His brother is still alive, and has been hanging out a fair bit north of the Wall for a while now.

My personal favorite theory on Jon's inevitable resurrection or miraculous recovery is that Undead Cat will give him the kiss of life. The Brotherhood is the one group with the known ability to raise the dead, at least in a non-scary, not crazy kind of return to life. They have had two different forms with two different leaders. Should we expect the chain to end at two? The first was about justice and now its about revenge when justice is denied, so, the last phase should be redemption. That Cat hated Jon for being alive is her one great sin. She makes many mistakes, commits some wrongs, but that's really the only constant flaw that she can't get away from. It comes out of her good, that she is the mother figure, and for her to overcome this innate self-interest would work better as story than Mel waving a wand and doing it.

[bens]

The Wall clearly has magic to it, I'm just not sure what that means yet. For instance, I think Melisandre's theory is wrong. We know from the alchemist during the KL siege that fire magic is more powerful when dragons are alive. I think its just her explanation of this effect, but she doesn't know the whole of it and so she incorrectly attributes it to the Wall. Does the cold preserve Maester Aemon or does the wall? His brother is still alive, and has been hanging out a fair bit north of the Wall for a while now.

My personal favorite theory on Jon's inevitable resurrection or miraculous recovery is that Undead Cat will give him the kiss of life. The Brotherhood is the one group with the known ability to raise the dead, at least in a non-scary, not crazy kind of return to life. They have had two different forms with two different leaders. Should we expect the chain to end at two? The first was about justice and now its about revenge when justice is denied, so, the last phase should be redemption. That Cat hated Jon for being alive is her one great sin. She makes many mistakes, commits some wrongs, but that's really the only constant flaw that she can't get away from. It comes out of her good, that she is the mother figure, and for her to overcome this innate self-interest would work better as story than Mel waving a wand and doing it.

That seems impossible. UnCat is just too far away. Even if she is racing towards the Wall as fast as she can move immediately as of Jon's death, it would take weeks for her to arrive. Jon's body would be far more decomposed than her own (Catelyn was dead only a few days) and totally unusable.

[SerWalterPuffsAlot]

His brother is still alive, and has been hanging out a fair bit north of the Wall for a while now.

I think it's his Uncle.

[Marakesh]

That seems impossible. UnCat is just too far away. Even if she is racing towards the Wall as fast as she can move immediately as of Jon's death, it would take weeks for her to arrive. Jon's body would be far more decomposed than her own (Catelyn was dead only a few days) and totally unusable.

Yup, but, I do believe the part about cold preserves and that Jon will spend some time (probably most of tWoW) warged into Ghost. Then he comes back at the end, a new man, takes over the BwB and gives them their 3rd and final goal.