Oriolesmagic Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 It's one of those scenes that, if it were in the book, it would have felt forced and kind of clumsy. However, in the show, the choreography and cinematography made it one of the better scenes in the episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Failing At Dinner Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I wasn't a huge fan of the fight itself (at least, the way it was set up) but at the end of the HotPie scene, we are clearly shown Podrick (or Brienne?) putting the bread-wolf into one of their horse's saddlebags. Then just before they run into Arya and Sandor, we are told that Podrick has failed to hobble the horses correctly and they have run off during the night. Even though Brienne and Pod still have some of their bags with them (Brienne tells Pod he'll have to carry them all the way to the Bloody Gate) it's possible that the bag with the bread-wolf in it is still attached to one of the horses that ran off. Who knows, maybe it will end up providing a life-saving meal to a starving Gendry if he ever rows his boat ashore? As my old Dad used to say: "If a badly-hobbled horse runs off with your bread-wolf in the night - she's not coming with you." I never knew what he meant until now. As for Sandor and Arya "motivelessly" turning back from the Bloody Gate after hearing of Aunt Lyssa's death, I assume they were also told that Petyr Baelish was now acting as prospective Lord of the Vale. Neither of them wants to meet him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADanceWithCats Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I wasn't a huge fan of the fight itself (at least, the way it was set up) but at the end of the HotPie scene, we are clearly shown Podrick (or Brienne?) putting the bread-wolf into one of their horse's saddlebags. Then just before they run into Arya and Sandor, we are told that Podrick has failed to hobble the horses correctly and they have run off during the night. Even though Brienne and Pod still have some of their bags with them (Brienne tells Pod he'll have to carry them all the way to the Bloody Gate) it's possible that the bag with the bread-wolf in it is still attached to one of the horses that ran off. You know, if this were the intention... then I would agree about the point about the bad writing. Given how we're on Page 3 and you're the first person who mentions this. I myself missed / forgot this completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ryon Stark Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I myself enjoyed the fight and thought it a great deviation from the show. I also thought it was perfectly in character since basically all four of the people involved in it have never had great social skills in any incarnation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelborn Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I like it, but at the same time hate it because it's the main reason I think Stoneheart is out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Failing At Dinner Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 You know, if this were the intention... then I would agree about the point about the bad writing. Given how we're on Page 3 and you're the first person who mentions this. I myself missed / forgot this completely. The poster piotes actually mentioned it on page 1, but I missed their post the first time I read the thread too. I agree that if this was the intended explanation (that the horses ran off with the bread-wolf) then it's a bit silly. But if it's not the intended explanation, then the scene where Podrick is shown to have failed in his job of hobbling the horses was just another excuse to show Pod's all-round incompetence, which was already well established. Poor Pod. He's not good for much when he's outside his comfort zone of Tyrion's chambers (and LF's brothel!) I guess they just had to have the HotPie scene, regardless of whether it fit or not, either as fan-service or as a build-up to something that's yet to come ... maybe just reminding the viewers that HotPie exists because he has a storyline coming up, or a role to play in the next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Bauer 24 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 The poster piotes actually mentioned it on page 1, but I missed their post the first time I read the thread too. I agree that if this was the intended explanation (that the horses ran off with the bread-wolf) then it's a bit silly. But if it's not the intended explanation, then the scene where Podrick is shown to have failed in his job of hobbling the horses was just another excuse to show Pod's all-round incompetence, which was already well established. Poor Pod. He's not good for much when he's outside his comfort zone of Tyrion's chambers (and LF's brothel!) I guess they just had to have the HotPie scene, regardless of whether it fit or not, either as fan-service or as a build-up to something that's yet to come ... maybe just reminding the viewers that HotPie exists because he has a storyline coming up, or a role to play in the next season. That doesn't make sense though. Gendry and Jaquen have been gone for a long time and Bran won't be in this season, so they aren't afraid to leave people out for years at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerHaHa Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I must be the massive minority, but I HATED the Hound/Brienne of Barf fight sequence. Every second attack was a stupid punch to the head. Seriously, I think they connected with more punches than anything else. This is a very common trend in a large percentage of the fights they are doing on the TV show now, and I HATE it. Ever since the Jaime/Ned fight in 5th episode of the 1st season, they've started sliding in more punches and less weapons strikes in the focused in 1v1 fights between characters. Anyone who has studied or participated in any kind of edged weapon combat knows that the very, very last thing you would do is throw a punch when you have a sword or knife in your hand. It's frankly ridiculous. The Ned/Jaime fight sequence was fantastic IMO for not doing this, in fact the only offhand strike was Jaime drawing his secondary weapon and using it, something which is a much more believable, and accurate technique. I know, I have this 4 foot long flying razor in my hand, but I'll forget about that and just punch this opponent a few times! Fantastic! I went back and counted them just now - 4 punches exchanged, and 2 kicks while they both had swords, until the Hound was on his knees and disarmed- he got out of that not by using his dagger which he still had, but by grasping Oathkeeper, and you guessed it...PUNCHING again! And this isn't the only example, there are SO many fights where these ridiculous punches are used after a swing and a miss with a sword or axe. Please tell me I'm not the only one that dislikes this, and wishes they would tell their stunt/fight coordinator to go back to the Jaime/Ned fight sequence type of formula. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konradsmith Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 This thread should probably be in the ep. 10 page in the s4 section btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Reckoner Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 @SerHaHa: You clearly know nothing about combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Failing At Dinner Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Bran won't be in this season, so they aren't afraid to leave people out for years at a time. Ah, see, I never knew that Bran wouldn;t appear in the coming season. I can't say I'll miss him, as I find his storyline weak and badly-handled (even as a non-book reader) but I never know which characters will turn up again, and which won't. I'm in firm agreement with SerHahHa about the increasing unrealisticness of the fights, though, with all the punching and ear-biting from opponents who have blades at their disposal. I was absolutely appalled by Sandor Clegane's use of the "Rob Roy gambit" during his tussle with Brienne. Jeezo. As someone who has spent far too much time (ie. any time at all) defending Rob Roy's grabbing of his opponent's blade at the end of the climactic fight in "Rob Roy", I now find myself entirely unable to defend the Hound's self-destructive blade-grabbing during his fight with Brienne. It was pointing directly at his neck, front-on, and he made no move to either deflect or dodge the sword through his ridiculous blade-grab. The only thing he could've achieved by grabbing that sword in that way was to help make sure Brienne directed it straight into his throat, and nowhere else. I don't think that was his aim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon in the North Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Yeah, good point. The whole scene was utterly senseless. Some people don't need their action scenes to make sense on a story telling level, apparently. What the hell was the point of Brienne meeting Hot Pie AND Arya? Just so that she could be the one to kill the Hound - oh, in an epic fight. Of course everybody had to act like idiots to make it happen too. IF Brienne meets Arya or Sansa, I want it to mean something. I want it to be an interesting scene that has an effect on the future plot. What was the point of everything Catelyn, Brienne and Jaime did regarding the girls? Brienne killing a random dude and shouting around like an idiot, while Arya fails to show enough interest to raise an eyebrow? My mother you say? Who cares, bye. I know they tried to combine a couple of scenes from the book, but the end result was crap. Having the Hound die of an infection would have been an anti-climatic ending for such a great character and would have made for bad television. The Hound losing to a warrior like Brienne was a much better send off, imo. The fight may have escalated quickly, but with a couple of hotheads like the Hound and show Brienne, what did you expect? And I'm not sure why you're confused about Brienne meeting Hot Pie. Hot Pie is the one who sent them into Arya's direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ftheking Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 And I'm not sure why you're confused about Brienne meeting Hot Pie. Hot Pie is the one who sent them into Arya's direction. What do you mean by confused? He did and it was exciting. Then she found Arya and it meant nothing. She could have been an annoying fly for all Arya cared and was influenced by the event. It went nowhere. That's the definition of anti-climatic. A fight alone does not a good story make. A fight, like a conversation and everything else that happens has to lead somewhere, has to change the plot. Brienne and Arya meeting especially could be huge. So as that's not the way the story goes, for example Aray and Brienne teaming up and looking for Sansa, they can't meet or it's just a horrible letdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhaenys666 Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Having the Hound die of an infection would have been an anti-climatic ending for such a great character and would have made for bad television. The Hound losing to a warrior like Brienne was a much better send off, imo. Sandor didn't die....well, we didn't actually see him die. And as we've learned, unless they"'re beheaded with witnesses, dont trust it. Or there's a funeral... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon in the North Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 What do you mean by confused? He did and it was exciting. Then she found Arya and it meant nothing. She could have been an annoying fly for all Arya cared and was influenced by the event. It went nowhere. That's the definition of anti-climatic. A fight alone does not a good story make. A fight, like a conversation and everything else that happens has to lead somewhere, has to change the plot. Brienne and Arya meeting especially could be huge. So as that's not the way the story goes, for example Aray and Brienne teaming up and looking for Sansa, they can't meet or it's just a horrible letdown. It did advance the plot. It killed off the Hound and put Arya on a boat to Braavos. None of which would have happened if Hot Pie hadn't pushed Brienne into Arya's direction. That's what that scene was all about. Sandor didn't die....well, we didn't actually see him die. And as we've learned, unless they"'re beheaded with witnesses, dont trust it. Or there's a funeral... Maybe, but Sandor said he was a dead man, so I'm taking him at his word. I could be wrong though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ftheking Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 It did advance the plot. It killed off the Hound and put Arya on a boat to Braavos. None of which would have happened if Hot Pie hadn't pushed Brienne into Arya's direction. That's what that scene was all about. Um, yes, it could easily have happened in that Sandor could have set down and announced that the wounds of his latest fight were killing him (and we saw he was hurt and healing badly in the show) and asked for the gift of mercy. I think I read something like that somewhere... So the scenes were completely pointless, except for inserting another sword fight. Btw I wanted to reply to something else: I was pissed about the scene not because a woman took out the hound, but that it was just one person. In the book THREE people have to fight sandor in order to inflict a wound. He kills everyone with arya's help. He leaves the inn and goes into a hysterical fever dying end game situation DAYS after. That's my issue, not brienne's gender. I think Arya actually takes out the unfortunate pimply boy all on her own and in the end she kills the Tickler of course. So it seems that 1 and a half random soldiers could be enough to best the Hound. A fight is always dangerous. It's not like a card game where a character can be unbeatable, because he has more fighting power points than everyone else... Brienne would have been very motivated when she thought she finally found a Stark girl to rescue, plus he was wounded, so that's really not the problem IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon in the North Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Um, yes, it could easily have happened in that Sandor could have set down and announced that the wounds of his latest fight were killing him (and we saw he was hurt and healing badly in the show) and asked for the gift of mercy. I think I read something like that somewhere... So the scenes were completely pointless, except for inserting another sword fight. Well, of course there are multiple ways to get from point A to point B and the showrunners chose this one. What do you think would be better received, Sandor simply keeling over and giving up or Sandor fighting until the last breath for something he believes in? Personally, I prefer the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Flow Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I liked the scene quite a bit. It made sense for television and I think it remained true to GrrM's style even if it didn't follow the books. In my opinion we needed something to establish Brienne as a full-on badass and it wouldn't do to have her just go ape-house on a bunch of nameless Bolton/Frey soldiers. No, the Hound had been established as a badass, plus he was a character we cared about. In doing it this way the show manages to have it's cake and eat it too. It establish Brienne as a badass while sneak punching us right in the feels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oriolesmagic Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Does anyone think the Hound's story continues in Season 5 like it does in the books? I guess it kind of depends on whether the CleganeBowl is actually a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian Snow Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I thought it was pretty cool to have two of the best swordsmen in Westeros meet in battle. But Gwendoline Christie's fucking acting threw me off, her smirks first of all. In season 2 she portrays Brienne perfectly as a humorless, honor driven person, but when she meets Arya suddenly she has all this swagger and just doesn't seem in character at all. And her screamings and gruntings are one of the most annoying things in the episode. AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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