coldhands

[stark bannerman from Mich]

So I read an article on Facebook that showed GRRM manuscript page from ADWD. It had a note on the side from the editor asking(believing) the benjen stark is coldhands. GRRM only reply was NO! So that fan theory is shot down. Any ideas in who coldhands is now? I'm leaning towards (Long)Night's King.

[Lord Reaper oOo]

I love brand new information!

[Lord Lannister]

How many threads have we had on this topic in the past week now..?

[The Bear]

How many threads have we had on this topic in the past week now..?

A whole freaking lot.

I never thought he was Benjen so the news doesn't change anything for me. I think he's either someone incredibly important like the Night's King, or he's absolutely nobody. Frankly, I'm leaning heavily towards 'his identity is irrelevant'

[SerPenguin]

It doesn't really matter who he is. Its nice to speculate as there isn't enough data to compile an accurate answer, but coldhands story is finished. I'd be surprised if he had any more to do with the story.

[Leonardo]

So I read an article on Facebook that showed GRRM manuscript page from ADWD. It had a note on the side from the editor asking(believing) the benjen stark is coldhands. GRRM only reply was NO! So that fan theory is shot down. Any ideas in who coldhands is now? I'm leaning towards (Long)Night's King.

He a one of the 79 sentinels

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Seventy-nine_sentinels

1) This story is in the same chapter where bran meets Sam and hears about coldhanda the first time and serves no other purpose

2) the deserters are bound IN DEATH for not keeping their watch in life. The magic of the oath and wall is why Coldhands still serves the watch, even in death

3) the story is almost certainly before the conquest and likely older, fitting leafs statement of long ago

4) they were buried with a horn and their spears. Jon finds a spearhead and horn in the cache of dragonglass. At this time the watch would still be equipped with Dragon glass

It's pretty clear on a re-read the only reason the story is there is to explain coldhands. Hes not really an important character in terms of his identity

[DesertRose]

I'm new to the forum, but I think Coldhands is the old bear Mormont.

[DamnDirtyApe]

I didn't know anything about the 79 Sentinels. Seems like a good possibility.

I'd been thinking that maybe he was one of the Raven's Teeth. For those who don't know, the Raven's Teeth were Bloodraven's personal guard, some of whom went north with him when he took the black. I thought that maybe when Bloodraven went out for his last ranging, he'd taken a select company of his most trusted men with him and they all fell to the Others, save for one man (maybe a Blackwood's bastard or just someone who grew up in Raventree Hall) who had taken his oath before a heart tree and was therefore protected from becoming a Wight. All of this would have happened 40 years or so before the series started, which is not quite "long ago" for a CotF, but maybe it could explain why Coldie is effectively in Brynden's employ.

[DamnDirtyApe]

I'm new to the forum, but I think Coldhands is the old bear Mormont.

Seems like Sam would have recognized him if that were the case.

[DesertRose]

Seems like Sam would have recognized him if that were the case.

You're probably right but he wears a hood and his face is covered with a scarf he never moves. I'm just rereading the Coldhands chapters and he is so connected with the Ravens it makes me think of Jeor.

[Windy Words]

He a one of the 79 sentinels

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Seventy-nine_sentinels

1) This story is in the same chapter where bran meets Sam and hears about coldhanda the first time and serves no other purpose

2) the deserters are bound IN DEATH for not keeping their watch in life. The magic of the oath and wall is why Coldhands still serves the watch, even in death

3) the story is almost certainly before the conquest and likely older, fitting leafs statement of long ago

4) they were buried with a horn and their spears. Jon finds a spearhead and horn in the cache of dragonglass. At this time the watch would still be equipped with Dragon glass

It's pretty clear on a re-read the only reason the story is there is to explain coldhands. Hes not really an important character in terms of his identity

Thanks! This sounds probable. It fits with the idea that GRRM always has a purpose for including stories and history. With so many pages to write, I don't think he includes them just for interest. Now I'm wondering why I didn't see it, even after a re-read. Probably was too busy looking to see if it was Benjen. Oh Ben, where ARE you?

[Ser Cold Fingers]

There are several theories out there and some could fit. I'll throw my theory out there for you read as well.

Bloodraven’s Thrall, aka Coldhands

And to several of the new members above...welcome to the forums!

[Elm Tree]

I'm new to the forum, but I think Coldhands is the old bear Mormont.

"They killed him long ago", which makes Mormont quite impossible imo.

[dbunting]

I'd have to agree that coldhands is basically no one important, just a tool for the three eyed raven to use. Definitely not Jeor since it is stated that cold hands died "long ago" and Jeor was a fresh kill. I would be surprised if we ever see cold hands again.

[Leonardo]

I didn't know anything about the 79 Sentinels. Seems like a good possibility.

I'd been thinking that maybe he was one of the Raven's Teeth. For those who don't know, the Raven's Teeth were Bloodraven's personal guard, some of whom went north with him when he took the black. I thought that maybe when Bloodraven went out for his last ranging, he'd taken a select company of his most trusted men with him and they all fell to the Others, save for one man (maybe a Blackwood's bastard or just someone who grew up in Raventree Hall) who had taken his oath before a heart tree and was therefore protected from becoming a Wight. All of this would have happened 40 years or so before the series started, which is not quite "long ago" for a CotF, but maybe it could explain why Coldie is effectively in Brynden's employ.

The problem is that we know a bunch of rangers have sworn their oaths before a heart tree, why would it not protect them? The nw oaths only bind you in life, hence why the sentinels being bound even in death is crucial.

[walkingWITHcersei]

I've always been a supporter of the Benjen is CH debate, but after tWoiaF I sadly think otherwise. Before tWoiaF came out there was a theory floating around (not taking credit for it but I don't know who posted it initially) that CH was a ranger named Redwyn. Redwyn is first mentioned by Sam, who finds an account of Redwyn traveling way north, fighting giants, and befriending the CotF. Then in tWoiaF (sorry I don't have the book in front of me so I'll be paraphrasing) Redwyn is mentioned again as being tight with CotF. I believe it even says that he learned to speak their language. The similarities are numerous. Redwyn is a ranger like CH, he speaks a strange tongue like CH, he's tight with the CotF like CH. I also think he's the ranger in old Nan's story that escaped from giants only to be killed by WW's as soon as he gets away from the giants. This would explain the "they killed him long ago" statement from Leaf. Remember Leaf is only 200 years old which is roughly the time frame Redwyn lived in. Everyone focuses on "long ago" but the real clue is "they". Bran says to Leaf "we have to help him" while CH is fighting a group of wights. So when Leaf says "they killed him" she's telling us CH was killed by wights. With all the evidence taken together it's likely Redwyn is CH. If the argument for him being one of the sentinels is that CH is introduced right after we hear that story, and the only reason we'd hear that story is to set up CH as one of them (as u can tell I find this theory ridiculous) then the same logic can be applied to Redwyn. Unlike the sentinels we hear of Redwyn multiple times. Each time with several clues tying him to CotF, giants, wights, the far north, ect. Why else give us all this info on one ranger whose been dead hundreds of years if he's not CH? But hey I still hope it's Benjen. I just don't believe I'll get my wish.

[Dolorous22]

Why, it's Lord Ryswell, of course! :cool4:

[Ser Cold Fingers]

I've always been a supporter of the Benjen is CH debate, but after tWoiaF I sadly think otherwise. Before tWoiaF came out there was a theory floating around (not taking credit for it but I don't know who posted it initially) that CH was a ranger named Redwyn. Redwyn is first mentioned by Sam, who finds an account of Redwyn traveling way north, fighting giants, and befriending the CotF. Then in tWoiaF (sorry I don't have the book in front of me so I'll be paraphrasing) Redwyn is mentioned again as being tight with CotF. I believe it even says that he learned to speak their language. The similarities are numerous. Redwyn is a ranger like CH, he speaks a strange tongue like CH, he's tight with the CotF like CH. I also think he's the ranger in old Nan's story that escaped from giants only to be killed by WW's as soon as he gets away from the giants. This would explain the "they killed him long ago" statement from Leaf. Remember Leaf is only 200 years old which is roughly the time frame Redwyn lived in. Everyone focuses on "long ago" but the real clue is "they". Bran says to Leaf "we have to help him" while CH is fighting a group of wights. So when Leaf says "they killed him" she's telling us CH was killed by wights. With all the evidence taken together it's likely Redwyn is CH. If the argument for him being one of the sentinels is that CH is introduced right after we hear that story, and the only reason we'd hear that story is to set up CH as one of them (as u can tell I find this theory ridiculous) then the same logic can be applied to Redwyn. Unlike the sentinels we hear of Redwyn multiple times. Each time with several clues tying him to CotF, giants, wights, the far north, ect. Why else give us all this info on one ranger whose been dead hundreds of years if he's not CH? But hey I still hope it's Benjen. I just don't believe I'll get my wish.

Per the Wiki...Redwyn lived during the reign of King Dorren Stark. He wrote an account of a ranging from the Shadow Tower to Lorn Point on theFrozen Shore. During that ranging they fought giants and traded with the children of the forest.

Redwyn lived during the reign of King Dorren Stark...so it must have happened prior to Aegon's conquest, which was 300 years ago. Since Redwyn openly talked about giants & CotF, I just assumed it happened over a thousand years ago, but that was just my own assumption.

[FearFacesNorth]

If he is not in the show, chances are his identity just isn't that spectacular.

[TallTyrion]

I know it probably won't happen, but I would love it if it came out that the picture showing that was fake and all these threads have been for nothing.