My Complex Theory

[B-rad]

Ok here is my super complex theory on how the series will end bittersweet.

The main guideline I use as sort of a backbone for my theory, and the guideline is GRRM's tendency to favor the rejects of this world. The rejects consist of Jon who lived as nothing more then a living representation of the most honorable man in the world's mistake, Dany who lived started out as a slave living to make her brother more powerful, Ser Barristan who is considered one of the greatest warriors in the world but is very old and has spent his life serving terrible kings, Tyrion a dwarf who shouldn't even be alive, Robin Arryn who is a sickly little boy who should be dead already like Tyrion, Theon Greyjoy, who's suppose to be a fearless hard man but has spent most of his life with truly good people while being told he's nothing more then a prisoner, Jaime who became a reject by losing his hand, Loras who is a shining knight but is also homosexual, and Brienne who is woman that is very unattractive but a fierce warrior and manny more. Shinning characters like Rob Stark, Raegar Targaryen, and Kal Drogo were killed off because they weren't rejects they were the ones who were suppose to beat the odds and defeat their enemies but they didn't. So I believe that the ultimate plan is to have the rejects win.

Jon turns out not to be Raegar and Lyannas son (no white hair, no dreams of dragons, and Aemon Targaryan never even considered Jon to be a Targaryan: if Jon was Aemon would've figured it out blind or not) but instead Jon is the son of Brandon Stark and Ashara Dayne, this way there can be the irony of Rob being more handsome and fearsome then Jon when Brandon was considered more handsome and fearsome then Ned, also it would allow Jon to as George Martin said become the new sword of the morning and AA ( not the prince that was promised they're separate things and Jon is not a targaryan). And why Ned wouldn't tell anyone would be to save the honor of his older brother and the woman he loved. That being said though I do still believe Raegar and Lyanna had a child but instead of Ned raising him/ her it would be Howland Reed in the secretive swamps where Robert would have no idea the Targaryan exists (Ned couldn't of raised him/ her because he/ her would have white hair and people would know he/ her was a Targaryan. So once Jon is saved from his wounds from whatever way ( most likely the sacrifice of sweet Shireen by the red woman) a small force of white walkers attack the wall with the person saving them being none other then Benjen Stark. Not long after individuals from house Dayne come to tell Jon the truth about his parent while giving him the sword of the morning because of his bravery he displayed with the raid on the wall and how he has become Lord commander of the nights watch. Jon knowing they need more help on the wall names Benjen Lord Commander while he goes and finds whoever he can to help fight the incoming white rider and the hell that follows them (hell being winter and white riders white walkers). Meanwhile Stannis has defeated the Boltons down south and has increased his forces with the Northeners. While traveling south he runs into Gendry who he immediately recognizes as Roberts bastard who he names his son and legitimizes to help strengthen his claim. In the Riverlands Blackfish and Cat reach out to Littlefinger to send troops from the Vale to help them takeover the Riverlands for the Tully's (not Edmure though he's an idiot). While this is happening Cat has Jamie travel to the Vale in secret to get Sansa and the has orders Brienne to go to Braavos to save Arya (who she heard was in Braavos from Little Finger because he has been keeping track of Arya but didn't tell anyone in case Sansa dies Arya would be the second choice or the Lysa Arryn).

Theon was kept alive by Stannis because he revealed that Bran and Rickon are alive and he swore fealty to Stannis and that he would get the iron born to serve him. The on ends up unexpectedly regain his health and become strong. When Asha has left with Ironborn from the North and from the Iron islands to attack the Reach while Euron remains at Pyke. While Aeron Greyjoy returns to Pyke with a giant kraken to fight Euron. Euron and what soldiers are left on the Iron islands but is unsuccessful. Then Theon arrives right on time with his strength somewhat regained and his archery skills sharpened once again. He defeats the kraken by shooting right in the eye. The iron born name Theon King of the iron islands for this and Euron escapes.

Stannis begins his conquest of the Riverlands while Blackfish begins his as well and the Freys get their comeback by being caught in the crossfire, and with the Lannister forces being pulled out in case Aegon's conquest becomes a bigger deal then people first thought leaving the Freys almost helpless and getting what they deserve. In the Vale as time progresses in the books I believe the lords of the Vale are sort of going to be like the Victorians, appearing dignified and proper but doing creepy things when no one is looking, like Lord Corbray molesting little Robin after getting drunk at Sansa and Harry's wedding and Little Finger having Sansa become the Lady of the Vale by her being married to Harry the heir then having Sansa kill him. Lord Corbray then hoping Robin doesn't tell the whole world he's a creep makes a deal with Little Finger to have Robin killed in exchange for support. But Robin runs to Sansa who has become like a mother to him and Sansa defies Littlefinger and runs off with little Robin after Baelish attempts to rape Sansa in his rage at her defiance. Littlefinger and soldiers try looking for Sansa and Robin but when they find them, Jaime is there to save them and help prove he is becoming a true knight by defending the weak, and he reminds Littlefinger that he is just a little man like Brandon Stark had reminded him, then Jaime kills him.

Rickon has also been retrieved by Davos and Davis was able to convince them that the Skagosi should fight for Stannis. Davos also raises Rickon a little bit so he becomes more like his father Ned.

In Kingslanding Cersei has her trial by combat where the person who decides to fight Ser Robert the strong is the Hound (who has been revived in a similar manner as his brother). The two brothers kill each other in the battle with Robert winning but the hound revealing the Knight is not a human which causes the lockup of Cersei and the takeover of the Tyrells. Down south Aegon is proving to be like the man he was named after and is conquering Westeros rather nicely with the Martells allying with him and manny Stormland lords also supporting him. When he reaches Kingslanding the Faith militant and Tyrells practically hand him the crown. But this is where things get real trippy. When Aegon meets Cersei while Mercylla and Tommen are there in the throne room, Aegon orders both of the children to be killed right in front of Cersei showing that Aegon was the brother Maggy the Frog had prophesied, (making sense because it was prophesied in Valyrian and Aegon is Valyrain, and Argon is a younger brother). This of course destroys Cersei and shocks about everyone including the know it all Varys and Aegon orders Cersei to be locked away. While Cersei rots away in her cell with the thought of her children dead on the ground and the remorse she feels for all of the horror she has done, making her even think she should've listened to Ned Stark, she looks up one last time at the most beautiful Queen she has ever seen who then takes off her face to reveal she is Arya the Queen of assassins who then swiftly ends Cersei's life (which fullfills the prophecy of Cersei being defeated by a younger and more beatiful Queen). While Arya's in town she also kills Ilyn Payne, Ser Maryn Trant and Qyburn (her actual target because of how he was pissing the God of Death off by bringing people back to life).

After Arya kills Qyburn she returns to Braavos to receive her new target, Lady Stoneheart (I know the assassins aren't allowed to kill people they know but I don't think they know Lady Stoneheart is Cat, instead all they know is that their is some undead bitch causing a lot of trouble that needs to be taken care of by Arya) before she leaves though Brienne finds Arya and tells her to come with her but she doesn't and instead of Brienne forcing her she pledges her fealty to Dany and tells Arya her mother and siblings are alive in the Riverlands. Since Arya is going to the Riverlands anyway she might as well visit her once again only to learn her target is her mother. She then with tears in her eyes kills her mother and leaves to continue being an assassin and finish her list.

To the East Tyrion has proven that he is a Targaryan (with their being a lot of evidence for this including how he was considered almost white haired in the beginning of the series and how the timing works for Areys to have slept with Joanna causing Tyrion to be born and he being the punishment on Joanna for cheating on Tywin because of Geroge Martin's history of having his series feel like a Greek tragedy and he would be Areys revenge on Tywin by Tyrion being the one to kill Tywin, and it would be super ironic because it would mean Jaime killed Tyrion's father and Tyrion killed Jamie's father). Tyrion is also the true dragon Moqorro had predicted.

In addition I believe Moqqorro will revive Quentyn. How? By using the silent woman Euron gave to Vicatarion who is actually a Blackfyre (no one else would know but Euron because his whole crew and the woman are mute) Moqorro would sacrifice the girl to revive Quentyn who is the mummer dragon Dany foresaw. Why would Euron give this woman to Victarion? So a new dragon can rise in the east and and tear apart Westeros while he completes his other plans. Why I think Quentyn will be revived? Martin at this point had only had very important characters be a POV except for people with epilogues, prologuew, or just characters with one chapter so I belived Quentyn isn't done. Other evidence, Bran had a dream about three shadows, one with the face of a hound, one with armor like the sun, and one who was huge and headless. It can be easily deduced that the first one is the Hound, the second one can be seen as Martell because of the Sun representing their house, and the third one is obviously the mountain. So what would these three individuals have in common? Well Sandor and Gregor are brothers but a Martell being included doesn't really make sense, unless shadow means undead. This would make sense because we already know that Ser Robert is pretty much just a revived Ser Gregor, the only way the Hound can come back is if he somehow became undead (which could be done by Thoros of Myr who probably isn't that far away), and of Quentyn was revived then he would be the shining shadow. As a result of his resurrection he would also become more handsome as Bran described this shadow, more fearsome, and he would now officially have dragon's blood allowing him to have a claim on the throne but I will get to that later.

Now here's where things get real tricky, the forgings of Lightbringer are the representations of the three heads of the dragon, the dragon of the West (Tyrion) being the first forge which was destroyed by water which I believe means Tyrion will be killed by Marwyn who will turn out to be the son of Bloodraven and Shiera Seastar (evidence: Bloodraven and Shiera are the only two other individuals who are commonly thought of as having magic powers, the timing works, and while Marwyn doesn't seem to look like his father with huge hands and a fat belly, those are descriptions that match his grandfather Aegon the unworthy). Marwyn would represent water by his surname being being inherited from his father which would be Rivers, also almost all of Tyrion's close to death encounters have involved water, (his father saying how he wanted to throw him into the ocean, his near death at the battle of Blackwater, and him nearly drowning before he was saved by Jon Connington).

How this happens? Tyrion rules over the Eastern Essos empire in Braavos who has allied with Dany. While Tyrion is in Braavos, Dany eventually comes to see how things are going. She learns Quentyn lives and has left with Viserion, Victarion and his fleet (dumb Victarion is instructed by Moqorro to serve Quentyn), and Quentyn's plan is to rule over Dorne like his father had told him to do but I'll get back to this later. Meanwhile in Braavos Brien finds Dany and falls in love with who she is and pledges her service to her (because house Targaryan is the only house of the big four she has not served yet and because she's a loyalty whore) right after finding Arya and telling her about her family in Riverun. Dany leaves Tyrion in charge only half trusting him, so she can conquer the Yi Ti empire that the Dothraki were prophesied to conquer (because it was a Mongol (who are commonly associated with the Yi Ti), belief that they would unite China which in this series are the Yi Ti). While this is happening Euron has become the champion of the Asshai who are determined to save the world by burning it to the ground (GRRM did say their wasn't a strict a good or bad side so I think the Asshai will be defeated by the Dany, also it Jorah had said in the first book how the Dothraki believed the end of the world would come from Asshai).

Now the Marwyn conspiracy. When Marwyn was born he was never able to see his father because he was sent to the wall by the Targaryens. Vowing revenge for this Marwyn conspires with the faceless men who have always wanted to put an end to the Targaryen dynasty because a long time ago they were slaves to old Valyria. So Marwyn becomes archmaester and has the maesters conspire with their lords such as Rickard Stark to marry with southern families to overthrow the Targaryens. Marwyn also chooses the perfect time to plant seeds of rebellion; right after the Nine Penny King War. During this war lords like Rickard Stark, Steffon Baratheon, Edmure Tully, and Jon Arryn. Marwyn also attemps to have the three houses that actually weren't defeated by the Targaryens gain strength to defeat the Targaryen's; the Martels who were never actually conquered by the Targaryens, the Baratheons who had always been allied with thenTargaryens, and the Staks who never actually fought the Targaryens but instead bent the knee because of the Targaryens dragons. Marwyn attempts to have the Martels get more powerful by marrying into the powerful Lannister family but Tywin insults the Martels causing them to marry into the Targaryens preventing them from being able to rebel against the dynasty. The Staks are sort of the ace opin the hole though for Marwyn because the Steffon is still fairly close to Arys but with Lyanna being proposed to Robert because of the Maester Marwyn sent to Rickard to get the Starks to become allied with the only families that haven't full submitted to the Targaryens, the Tullies by having Brandon marry Cat, the Arryns by having Ned fostered with them, and the Baratheons by having Robert marry Lyanna. While this is occuring the faceless men are killing off other Targaryen suitors (how else would Areys and his family be the last of the Targaryens plus it mentioned in the books how the other Targaryens mysteriously died). And once Robert wins the rebellion Marwyn and the faceless men are successful and they have their revenge. They don't even finish off Dany and Viserys because they have become nothing but beggars. But now new Targaryens are rising such as Aegon, Dany, and Tyrion. So Marwyn decides he will raise a Red dragon of his own that matches his teeth to defeat the remaining Targaryens starting with Tyrion in Braavos. They get the egg from Euron who used it to pay an assassin to kill Balon, and Marwyn has the dragon raised by the faceless men in Braavos. He also hatches the egg the Targaryen way; with blood and fire. When Dany's Dragons were born they were born amidst fire and with the blood of a Khal which is basically a king. Marwyn will have his dragon born amidst fire and the he will get the King's blood from Edric Storm. Marwyn's dragon however will be sickly and disfigured because he will have it grow at an accelerated rate using magic.

Once the dragon is at its max power, Marwyn will arrive, like he had told Sam when he said he was going to advice Dany (really his plan is to kill her), but when he arrives at Braavos and discover she is not there but the dragon riding Tyrion Targaryen is, he rides the dragon to battle Tyrion (who is riding Raegal). This will be Tyrion's final battle against magic with his first one being against Stannis who was using magic to try and become king. Tyrion will defeat Marwyn but Marwyn also kills Tyrion. Thus having the first forging of the sword destroyed by water, and having a bitter sweet ending for our beloved dwarf.

The next forging of the sword was driven into the heart of a lion which caused it to shatter. The second forging represents the dragon of the south (Aegon). Aegon has married Arianne and stolen the Iron throne and he has also married Margery because of a history of poligamy with Targaryans. Quentyn has returned and is a threat to Aregon, he now actually has dragon blood from the Blackfyre woman giving him a strong claim on the throne because people are still not convinced that Aegon should be the king. Quentyn also has a dragon that he rides which gives evidence that he's now a dragon (even if he's a mummer dragon) and Voctarion's fleet of Iron born also are serving him. Quentyn's return causes civil war in Dorne and throughout the South of Westeros. An unlikely strong ally of Quentyn though is Jaime who has delivered Sansa to Lady Stoneheart and has taken over house Lannister (because it's his duty and because he was unknighted by Aegon). A bloody civil war occurs in the south with Arianne eventually killing Margery (because bitches be cray) Quentyn dies and Viserion flees to the North. And Jaime kills Aegon and takes the iron throne.

Another piece of evidence on why this war may occur is because of Oberyn. Oberyn had the wish getting revenge on Tywin and the Mountain and he got revenge on both but it cost him his life. I believe Doran is going to suffer a similar fate because what he wanted was for his daughter to marry a Targ and for Quentyn to fullfill his duty. He gets both but it causes his kingdom to be torn apart by civil war and for his children to fight bitterly for power.

This war would also be the cyvasse game between Illyrio and Varys, Varys supporting Aegon and Illyrio supporting Quentyn. Both individuals in the end lose though and Varys will may very well kill himself once he sees the horros Aegon commits while also watching his plan fall apart. Illyrio will most likely just support Dany after Quentyn is killed.

The third and final forging of the sword caused AA's (Raegar who Is reborn as his buddy's nephew Jon) love to die (Lyanna). The result is the third sword representing the dragon of the North (Lyanna and Raegar's son/ daughter who has been hiding with Howland Reed). If your wondering why their isn't a dragon of the East it's because all dragons came from the east originally. Stannis with his adopted son Gendry after defeating the Boltons goes to the Cragnomen to see if they would support him but instead he finds out Howland Reed has been raising the true heir to the throne. The Reed's give their support to Stannis only if he agrees to put Raegar's child on the throne (or marry Gendry who has been made a Baratheon). Stannis only wanted to be king because he felt like he had to to save the world but he comes to an agreement with Howland and begins his campaign in the Riverlands. Stannis eventually meets with Blackfish and they are about ready to fight each other when Jon comes in and tell them they need to go North to fight the White Walkers (fulfilling the Royne prophecy of a mystery hero who convinces the Old man of the river: Blackfish and the crab king: Stannis to fight to make peace and go North to save the world.

Dany defeats the Yi Ti empire (also fights them because they have slavery) and who's left of the Empire allies with her (it was also a good time to conquer them because of the outbreak of Greyscales in the empire). Euron then gives Dany a proper proposal saying they would burn the world together and in response Dany gathers all of her forces to fight the Asshai (including the Yi Ti which would also fulfill the Yi Ti prophecy of the world being saved by a woman with a monkey's tail the woman being Dany and the monkey's tail being the Yi Ti who are commonly associated with a monkey tail. She comes up victorious and Ser Barristan and Brien live but Jorah saves Dany by giving his life and he dies in her arms. Euron also rides an Asshai dragon against Dany and Drogon but is ultimately defeated. This would be the fire story line of the song of ice and fire but instead of ice fighting fire that everyone thought would happen fire fought fire. Dany then creates a new Valyrian empire that spans over all of Essos and Dany never returns to Weteros but proves she was the Princess that was promised by bringing peace to the continent. This would also make Dany the inverse of Aegon, Aegon was of the Valyrian empire born on Dragonstone who went West and conquered the seven kingdoms. Dany was of Westerosi royalty who was born on Dragonstone who goes east and creates a new Valurian empire.

In the North Jon and leads all of the heroes against the white walkers and from the farther North Bran has warged into an Ice dragon and is leading the children south to fight the White walker army. During the fighting Viserion flies in and Raegor's son/ daughter fullfills their destiny as a Targaryan and rides Viserion to melt the wall and causing boiling water to pour on the enemy. Jon then goes to negotiate with the Night king who (this may be stretch) turns out to be Waymor Royce (the night's watch member from the prologue who was turned into a wight). They do not come to terms of peace but Jon has an epic fight with him using Dawn. All of the soldiers of man begin their fight with the white walkers again and Jon ends up slaying the Night's King and saving the world.

Conclusion: After the war in the North Stannis takes Storms end and rules the Stormlands which is what he really wanted all along and has Gendry be his heir and he marries either Sansa or Arya to fulfill Roberts wish of having his house join Ned's. Arianne rules Dorne like she always wanted after Doran dies after watching his home torn apart by war, and the Sand Snakes that are left alive also help restore Dorne. The Reach has been torn apart by iron born and dragons and is ruled by Loras who is the only surviving member of the Tyrells. The Iron islands are ruled by Theon and he finds a bastard son of his that he raises as his heir. Jaime steps down from the iron throne and rules the Westerlands like his father wanted and takes a proper wife (who knows who). Blackfish rules the Riverlands because all the Freys are dead along with Edmure. The Vale is ruled by Robin Arryn who like Littlefinger had said proves to rise up from being a sickly little boy to becoming a strong man who continues on the Arryn name. Rickon becomes lord of Winterfell and is raised by Davos and Osha to become a good man like his father. Bran either gets to walk again and he gets to live his dream of being a knight and he becomes a member of the kinsguard/ dragon rider, or he become the new Bran the builder like Maester Luwin wanted. If Raegar's child turns out to be a boy he sits on the iron throne and marries either Sansa, or Val and begins a Stark/ Targaryen dynasty while Jon declares himself king in the North which would consist of the North, lands beyond the wall (the wall is gone now though), the Riverlands, the Vale and the iron islands. If Raegar's child turns out to be a girl then she will most likely marry Jon and they will rule all of the seven kingdoms together with Sam being the Grand Maester and Benjen would be the hand of the King (there would no longer be a night's watch).

Something else that I thought of but I don't really believe it myself is this, what if the Sun mentioned in Mirri Maz Duur said Drogo would come back when the sun rises in the west and sets in the east, what if the sun is Dany, the seas going dry is the Khalassar no longer needing to wander the sea of grass, and mountains being blown away by the wind being the barrier between the two parts of Essos (which are separated by mountains). When this occurs then Drogo will come back or somwthing like that maybe it would be more like after the new Valyrian empire is created by Dany and she saves the world from the asshai then she will like the sun, set and then she will get to be with Drogo again.

Also another theory I'm not completely confident in is if Ser Robert the Strong is a Frankenstein conjoining of Ser Gregor Clegane and Robert Baratheon (he is called Ser Robert after all). What this would mean I'm not entirely sure perhaps he would eventually regain Robert's mind and Robert would be able to go live the happy life he always wanted as a mercenary in the East.

In addition it's possible Aemon is alive and is intending to advise Dany and assist her in recreating the new Valyrian empire.

As I said I'm not very confident in these theories above but I think they are something worth thinking about.

So this is my bitter sweet ending. Bitter because of the deaths of beloved characters like Jorah and Tyrion, but sweet with the Starks having power in the end and the return of the Targaryen dynasty.

And finally to clarify what Moqorro said, the old dragon is Aemon, the young dragon is Raegar's child, the true dragon is Tyrion and the false dragon is Quentyn/ the Blackfyre daughter, the dragon of light is Dany, and the dragon of Darkness is Aegon.

Please give me feed back on my theory and what you guys think.

I'm also going to continue editing this post as I learn and theorize other aspects of what is to come.

[Chilli]

Jon cannot be Brandon's son because Brandon died long before Jon was conceived.

[~~~~~~~~~~~~~]

Jon cannot be Brandon's son because Brandon died long before Jon was conceived.

I concur. He could however be Ashara and Ned's son. I actually believe the R+L=J theory most of the time. I have this little niggling at the back of my mind that keeps reminding me of the Wild Wolf, Brandon Stark & the Quiet Wolf, Eddard Stark.

Jon's dire wolf, Ghost is the quiet wolf. As much as I try to rationalize this away, it keeps steady in the back of my brain an annoying little factoid that will not quiet itself. Ghost is the leader of his pack as Eddard was the Lord of Winterfell. Jon looks more like his father than Robb does. This angers Catelyn fiercely. Robb is a trueborn Stark, but, Jon looks more like Ned than he does.

Anyway, it will all come out in the next book. If it doesn't, I think I will actually go crazy and fall into a long night myself. Winter is here! Publish the damnable book already!

[B-rad]

The tourney at Harrenhal when Ashara would've been impregnated was 281 and its said Jon was born in 283. It could be possible Ned lied about the year he was born as well to strengthen the idea that Jon is his bastard that was conceived during the war, or it could've just been late 281 and birth at early 283. Also Sean Bean said it's pretty obvious that Ned is not Jon's real father and Ser Barristan said one of the Stark men impregnated Ashara, so I would think it's pretty clear that that Stark was not Ned so that leaves his big brother Brandon. Plus it's pretty ironic that Robb the son of Ned would be more of a Brandon by being a fierce leader, and Jon who's the son of Brandon is more like his uncle Ned by being more quiet and reserved. In addition Martin has mentioned how Dawn is staying at House Dayne until a new sword in the morning arises, and it would be pretty cool if that Sword of the morning was Jon. Also the Dayens were kings at one time like the Starks so it would give Jon the blood of Kings of the north and blood of kings of the south which to me sounds pretty cool. Plus I think it's highly plausible that the child of Raegar and Lyanna has been raised by Howland Reed this whole time especially if the child has white hair which is about 99% of the Targaryens. And Howland like Lyanna a lot so that just seems kind of nice that he would this nice thing for her.

[Chilli]

Catelyn would have noticed the age difference with Robb if Jon would have been older.

There would have been no reason to keep it secret if Jon was Ashara's and Brandon. Maybe Ashara had a kid with Brandon and maybe it's alive, but I don't believe it's Jon.

[BalerionTheCat]

And in this time window, Ashara had a daughter, probably with Ned, conceived before Ned marriage. The girl was stillborn or short lived.

I must say I didn't read everything from the OP. But very little of what I read was backed up by solid evidences from the books.

[~~~~~~~~~~~~~]

Catelyn would have noticed the age difference with Robb if Jon would have been older.

There would have been no reason to keep it secret if Jon was Ashara's and Brandon. Maybe Ashara had a kid with Brandon and maybe it's alive, but I don't believe it's Jon.

I agree, there may have been a bit of baby switching going on. I don't believe that Ashara threw herself off a cliff. There was so much scheming going on at the time, I sometimes wonder if our Georgie isn't a soap opera fan!

[~~~~~~~~~~~~~]

And in this time window, Ashara had a daughter, probably with Ned, conceived before Ned marriage. The girl was stillborn or short lived.

I must say I didn't read everything from the OP. But very little of what I read was backed up by solid evidences from the books.

It is said by Selmy that her daughter was stillborn & that's why she killed herself. How would he know? Its also said that Jon is a bastard. The text says alot of things that are not necessarily to be taken at face value. There is a lot of subtext in the text as it were and things that can easily be taken out of context.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

If Ashara's child lives then I think it is Allyra Dayne. Classic parents claim their daughters baby story line.

Jon is too young to be Brandon's child whatever way you cut it, Ned has no reason to claim his brothers son & Catelyn would have to be blind, death and have no sense of touch to mistake a one yr old for younger than her new born.

[BalerionTheCat]

There are people just repeating what they heard elsewhere, without checking facts. We may have proof or suspicion by other testimonies that it is false. The more people repeat the rumor, the more it looks true. But it doesn't change the reality. The fact is, people tend to listen to what they want and to ignore what they don't. In case of Selmy, he loved Ashara and I would think he investigated thoroughly the question of the child gender and death. He may be a fool when following his honor, but I don't think he missed the mark here.

From what we know of GRRM, it is not completely excluded that Ashara lives and fooled Baristan, but I think it unlikely.

But I have no doubt about who Jon is.

[Satin fetch me a cock!]

Nice job! You have a pretty good understanding of the books. I hope some of this happens. Although I don't think it is the case, it can't be said it is "impossible" that B+A=J, they could have conceived when Brandon was in the dungeons of the red keep.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

Nice job! You have a pretty good understanding of the books. I hope some of this happens. Although I don't think it is the case, it can't be said it is "impossible" that B+A=J, they could have conceived when Brandon was in the dungeons of the red keep.

No, no it really is impossible. Jon was born approximately 8/9 months before dany, we know this because the author told us so. Dany was conceived the night before Rhaella left for Dragonstone we know this because it is in the books, A successful pregnancy takes between 8 & 10 months, therefore Dany is born roughly 9 months post the sack of KL, ergo Jon was born around the time of the sack. Meaning he was conceived 9 ish months before the sack, The war lasted about a year, and a year is 12 months, so Jon was conceived three months or so into the war. the war started with Jon Arryn raising his banners which happened AFTER Brandon dies. IF Ashara went to the RK and fucked Brandon whilst he was in his cell her baby would have been born 3 ish months before the sack of KL. And we know because the author told us that Jon was born around the sack, because he told us Dany's conception date and the age gap between the two of them.

[Satin fetch me a cock!]

The only thing that is "cannon" (I hate using that word because the books are not finished, so it is next to impossible to label what is "cannon") is that Danny was born "about 9 months after Jon." (Which is true if you accept GRRM said in an interview umpteen years ago is true and will be included In the series. So if you accept that Brandon & Ash conceived between, 1 month before and 1 night before Brandon was killed, then that would put Jon being born 8-9 months Into the war (not during the Sack) . BTW, if you believe that statement by GRRM about Dany being born 9 months after Jon, and you accept Jon was born "around the sack of KL" then you have to accept that Ned got to KL in time to see Jamie siting on the throne and then Was able to

to lift the siege on SE, kill the Kings Guard, and search enough places to gather the intel needed to find Lyanna in time to promise her something.

Look, I am not saying B+A=J, to be honest with you, I don't believe it. But I don't think it is fair to make assumptions on what is "cannon" because the Author responded to an interview question nearly 20 years ago. SSM shouldn't be used to validate theories. I am not an expert on the timeline surrounding Roberts rebellion, but based on the information in the BOOKS, and the opening the "unreliable narrator" gives GRRM, B+A=J is possible.

[B-rad]

The only thing that is "cannon" (I hate using that word because the books are not finished, so it is next to impossible to label what is "cannon") is that Danny was born "about 9 months after Jon." (Which is true if you accept GRRM said in an interview umpteen years ago is true and will be included In the series. So if you accept that Brandon & Ash conceived between, 1 month before and 1 night before Brandon was killed, then that would put Jon being born 8-9 months Into the war (not during the Sack) . BTW, if you believe that statement by GRRM about Dany being born 9 months after Jon, and you accept Jon was born "around the sack of KL" then you have to accept that Ned got to KL in time to see Jamie siting on the throne and then Was able to

to lift the siege on SE, kill the Kings Guard, and search enough places to gather the intel needed to find Lyanna in time to promise her something.

Look, I am not saying B+A=J, to be honest with you, I don't believe it. But I don't think it is fair to make assumptions on what is "cannon" because the Author responded to an interview question nearly 20 years ago. SSM shouldn't be used to validate theories. I am not an expert on the timeline surrounding Roberts rebellion, but based on the information in the BOOKS, and the opening the "unreliable narrator" gives GRRM, B+A=J is possible.

If Brandon did impregnage Ashara at Kings Lamding before he got arrested then they might of even had enough time to get married thus making Jon a true Stark and not a snow.

[Satin fetch me a cock!]

I don't think they even had sex... I was just arguing that it was possible.

[B-rad]

What I just posted was also something I thought was plausible not that I truly believed it. Also does anyone have any thoughts on who Dany might end up with in the end? I think it might be Daario or maybe even Ser Barristan but both are pretty unlikely.

[B-rad]

What would also be cool is if Thrion met up with his uncle (well not biological) Gerion Lannister who had recovered Brightroar and wanted to help Tyrion and his helping Dany. It would also be another parallel between Tyrion and Jon since both are bastards of great houses, never really met their real parents, and have lost uncles. The other possibility is Gerion turning out to be the king of pirates like some have theorized and he along with a lot of other mercenary groups will join up Quentyn to fight Aegon.

[B-rad]

It seems like you guys talking more about the beginning of my theory does anyone have any comments on the rest of it?

[Monctonvike]

I could never write that in a million years so kudos to you!

I am not sure it will come to pass but no one really knows what will happen.

I admit I sor of flew through it, but I noticed you had Stannis marrying Sansa or Arya. What happened to Selyse??

[King17]

I could never write that in a million years so kudos to you!

I am not sure it will come to pass but no one really knows what will happen.

I admit I sor of flew through it, but I noticed you had Stannis marrying Sansa or Arya. What happened to Selyse??