Heresy 148

[MaesterSam]

This reminds me of another thing -- that if you have numerous wights in a relatively small area, like the area between two huge walls, you can just torch one wight with a fire arrow and the rest are likely to go up in short order because they're so flammable.

So, as you say, the wights themselves could have been turned into fuel (by archers on the inner wall) until they ran out as a fuel supply... at which time the problem would effectively have been handled.

The weirwood point is indeed interesting.

Re Mormont, my own take is that while he's aware Craster is dumping his sons in the wood, and all the rangers are, he isn't aware of the reason for it. He thinks Craster's interpretation of, or form of serving, the old gods is different from that of House Mormont or House Stark (which also observe the old gods). Hence his remark to Jon.

Craster's true motive is something I think most of us agree on at this point.

:agree: and would go on to point out the words of House Stark, which I interpret as an ancient reference to the Long Night and the chilling premise that it will inevitably recur.

If so, isn't the implication interesting? -- that House Stark apparently knew, at that ancient point in time, what caused the Long Night... and also knew that it was not a solved problem.

Interesting indeed! It does seem like they knew, doesn't it? Too bad everyone apparently forgot what to do when winter finally does come...

Well, I think the fact that the towers on the inner wall are square while the towers on the outer wall are rounded are strong evidence for the claim that the inner wall and the outer wall weren't built at the same time. The outer wall is much newer and uses a more advanced architectural style. While its possible that the outer wall was built with the idea of creating a fire trap, I don't think it probable because the walls weren't built simultaneously implying the walls were built with different purposes.

I also don't think the fire trap idea is all that good of a strategy to use against the walkers. Doing so gives the enemy a fortification (the outer wall) to hide in/behind. It would be much better to simply hold the outer wall. This forces your enemy to cover open terrain where they could easily be picked off by fire arrows. If you surrender the outer wall, you will be begging your enemy to simply lay siege to you. I also believe it would be generally easier to make and keep a stock of fire arrows during a LN than it would be to maintain enough wood stock to be able to repeatedly set fire traps in the moat in order to ward off multiple attacks.

My real question is if there are other ways of fighting wights. Are they vulnerable to anything other than fire?

EDIT: Honestly I think winterfells design was made so that it would be almost impossible to storm, thanks to the strong multiple layers of defense, and very difficult to seige thanks to deep water sources, along with woods, and the ability to grow crops at any time of year. It's that simple. The design will work against wights because, at some level, wights are forced to fight like normal men.

I also remember reading that the walls were built at different times, but that doesn't necessarily mean they weren't intended to function together. Just that it would take a lot of resources to build a wall of that size, so building two at once is too much. I believe it was the outer wall that is older though- and that this confused the maesters b/c the rounded towers shouldn't have existed so long ago.

Which makes me wonder if the outer wall was already up when the FM/Starks arrived, and they simply added a second inner wall at some point?

As to the defense strategy, I completely agree that the first line of defense is the outer wall. Ideally nobody would get past it. But if an enemy did manage to breach it or get enough people on top to overwhelm the defenders, the moat (fire trap?) and inner wall will be very helpful.

After thinking about it some more, I agree it would be quite a task to have the whole moat on fire. But waiting with burning arrows and letting the wights accumulate before lighting them all on fire should still work.

I do want to say again that I am not claiming WF was definitely built to defend against Others and not men. Just that, if the Others did attack, its fortifications are very well suited for mounting an effective defense. And that it's possible this is not a coincidence.

[Matthew.]

Aerys for sure wanted a woman with Valyrian blood so Elia was not even on his radar.

House Martell has Valyrian blood, via Maron Martell and Daenerys Targaryen

Edit: Daenerys, daughter of Aegon IV, not the Daenerys that's spent the last 5 books farting around in Essos

We have more in favor of her likness in personality to Lyanna than not.Ned plainly says so.

Yes, Lyanna is like Arya--but she isn't Arya. We can't use a very young Arya to determine whether or not a grown Lyanna would have had romantic interests. From Ned's own remembrances of Lyanna's opinion on Robert, her view on relationships was clearly more complicated than Arya's "being a proper lady is yucky" (paraphrase) world view.

As for Rhaegar, him being infatuated with Lyanna still has the strongest textual foundation; that doesn't make it confirmed, but it's suggested on more than one occasion, in both his actions and the words of those that knew him.

[Voice]

Arya "not crying" at song doesn't make her less like Lyanna in relation to more like her. We have more in favor of her likness in personality to Lyanna than not.Ned plainly says so.Plus again we have no idea 'WHAT" the song was. It could have been anything that might have touched her profoundly.And to be accurate,Lyanna didn't "weep" at the song she "sniffled"

Agreed. I don't like getting into this sort of thing, because I turn into a romantic fool, but Lyanna's entire reaction at the tourney sounds exactly like what Arya would have done. She also has a wild-wolf-pup brother, and a quiet wolf brother, and her father-wolf was also killed by the king on the IT. So the parallel backstory is evident. They are both she-wolves a-horse, who have a deep, fearless passion for justice.

I think the song Rhaegar sang touched on those emotions. Regardless of what the melody was, sad or uplifting, I have a strong suspicion the words of it were quite "bittersweet."

[Matthew.]

So I think he has to be one of the 13, though it's entirely possible he's not the LH himself.

I think he's either one of the original 13, or one of the NK's companions. Coldhands is not exactly an emotional guy, but there seems to be real frustration when he senses that the wights are nearby, but can't find them. It kind of reminded me of the way Ghost is the first to sense that Othor is on the prowl, and is giving a silent snarl, or Summer baring his fangs at the stone kings, and refusing to follow Bran into the depths of the Winterfell crypts.

[Black Crow]

I took that tack because I didn't want Coldhands to be the Last Hero, but the more I think about it, it makes the most sense.

So as cold and death filled the earth, the last hero determined to seek out the children, in the hopes that their ancient magics could win back what the armies of men had lost. He set out into the dead lands with a sword, a horse, a dog and a dozen companions. For years he searched until he despaired of ever finding the children of the forest in their secret cities. One by one his friends died, and his horse, and finally even his dog, and his sword froze so hard the blade snapped when he tried to use it. And the Others smelled the hot blood in him and came silent on his trail, stalking him with packs of pale white spiders big as hounds –

The only way for those spiders to stop stalking him would be for his blood to turn cold right?

"Who are you? Why are your hands black? "

The ranger studied his hands as if he had never noticed them before.

"Once the heart has ceased to beat, a man's blood runs down into his extremities, where it thickens and congeals." His voice rattled in his throat, as thin and gaunt as he was. "His hands and feet swell up and turn as black as pudding. The rest of him becomes as white as milk."

The wights are nothing for him to fear, but he obviously wants to kill them all the same...

[Leaf] waved her torch toward the black crack in the back wall of the cave.

"Our way is down. You must come with me now."

Bran shivered again. "The ranger ..."

"He cannot come."

"They'll kill him."

"No. They killed him long ago. Come now. It is warmer down deep, and no one will hurt you there. He is waiting for you."

So I think he has to be one of the 13, though it's entirely possible he's not the LH himself. According to Annals Samwell discovers, the LH had a blade of dragonsteel, which he and Jon think is Valyrian Steel, that the Others could not stand against. This makes a lot of sense, and seems to verify the Last Hero's survival and return to the Wall. Bran sees Coldhands' sword, but makes no comment regarding its appearance, other than the fact that it is a longsword. A young boy like Bran would likely be impressed with Valyrian Steel enough to make note of it, and he is obviously familiar enough with Ice to make a trustworthy identification.

I'm not convinced about identifying Coldhands with the last hero. He's obviously been out there for a while but somehow no, it doesn't gel.

One thing that does occur to me though when Leaf says he can't come in is that this warding business may be simpler than we've imagined. According to Leaf he can't enter the cave [so why then does he know so much about Bloodraven?] and according to him he can't pass the Wall. He tells Sam that only a sworn brother of the Nights Watch can open the gate, thus allowing the Scooby Gang, who aint sworn brothers, to pass through, but what if the warding itself is actually quite simple in blocking passage to dead things, ie; you can only pass the warding in the Wall and the cave if you are warm blooded.

And on that note, good night.

[Black Crow]

I think he's either one of the original 13, or one of the NK's companions. Coldhands is not exactly an emotional guy, but there seems to be real frustration when he senses that the wights are nearby, but can't find them. It kind of reminded me of the way Ghost is the first to sense that Othor is on the prowl, and is giving a silent snarl, or Summer baring his fangs at the stone kings, and refusing to follow Bran into the depths of the Winterfell crypts.

But is he genuinely frustrated or is he deliberately ramping up the tension. He's dead so he can't smell anything. Meera is certainly suspicious of the route he took to get there and his constant emphasis of danger. As we've discussed before its very easy to read this passage as the Scooby Gang being herded into the cave with the true purpose of the wights being as yard dogs to prevent them getting out again.

Remember also the way the Russian/Coldhands tells Marlow that it was Kurtz himself who ordered the attack on the pilgrims as they approached the village

[Summer Is Coming!]

Well, seems to me a few people thought he was an actual dragon... so I just can't help but wonder.

Aerion Brightflame takes the dragon crown on that one, although the World Book references to him as "puissant" make him seem like Joffrey with far more skill and at least one more helping of courage rather than just Joffrey.

[Summer Is Coming!]

Agreed. I don't like getting into this sort of thing, because I turn into a romantic fool, but Lyanna's entire reaction at the tourney sounds exactly like what Arya would have done. She also has a wild-wolf-pup brother, and a quiet wolf brother, and her father-wolf was also killed by the king on the IT. So the parallel backstory is evident. They are both she-wolves a-horse, who have a deep, fearless passion for justice.

I think the song Rhaegar sang touched on those emotions. Regardless of what the melody was, sad or uplifting, I have a strong suspicion the words of it were quite "bittersweet."

Martin stated in an SSM somewhere that he tried to write the lyrics to Jenny of Oldstones' song and couldn't get it just right, so that's the reason it's not in the text, but I've wondered if that was the song Rhaegar sang, especially the way we have the Ghost of High Heart calling for it from Tom in ASOS, and Arya hearing it then. That might build on the parallel not only with Arya but also on the idea of a prince throwing away his crown, whether he knew it or not.

[Matthew.]

As we've discussed before its very easy to read this passage as the Scooby Gang being herded into the cave with the true purpose of the wights being as yard dogs to prevent them getting out again.

I guess it could be an admirable turn at playacting for the dead man, but I think his frustration was sincere. I just don't see the point of such a staged attack, or wights to keep everyone in the cave. The cave is exactly where they meant to be, and the cold is inhospitable, they couldn't run very far even if they wanted to. And surely such a ruse would be uncovered as Bran begins to understand his powers; I find it increasingly unlikely that the residents of BR's cave are running the show on the outside. Maybe Singer magic is at the root of the LN and the Others, but that doesn't mean BR is the one wielding said magic.

[Summer Is Coming!]

Agreed. I enjoyed the Black Gate discussion too. It is easy to see Coldhands as BR's emissary, and while he may be, the "they killed him long ago" comment is a sticking point. We now have confirmation he isn't Benjen, and I think we wouldn't be wrong to think he is a survivor of the Long Night. He knows the intricacies of the Black Gate far to well to be a brother without special significance.

Unless we assume he is NK, I think it likely he is one of the original brothers who served on the Wall near the end of the LN to expel NK. The Last Hero is always a possibility, but I would assume that if a brother keeps his vows, even in his death, he shall live and die at his post and remain at his post alive or dead.

Last thread, I made the argument that Coldhands couldn't pass the gate because he was more, or less, than a normal human brother of the NW. In thinking about it more though, I can't help but feel like he's been true to his vows. Extremely true. And because of this, I think he might be the true and literal First Ranger.

This would align him quite well with the Last Hero, but we must remember the Last Hero was not the First Ranger. He had 12 predecessors. If we look at the text in its own right, and forget about the Oathkeeper episode of the show, we may have had our first glimpse of the Last Hero's companions.

I think he's either one of the original 13, or one of the NK's companions. Coldhands is not exactly an emotional guy, but there seems to be real frustration when he senses that the wights are nearby, but can't find them. It kind of reminded me of the way Ghost is the first to sense that Othor is on the prowl, and is giving a silent snarl, or Summer baring his fangs at the stone kings, and refusing to follow Bran into the depths of the Winterfell crypts.

I really like this idea. I don't think he needs to be the Last Hero, but the idea that he may have been the first to die, or the first to break off from the main group and essentially disappear holds water for me. This would parallel the actions of Stonesnake when he is with Jon and Qhorin, taking off to serve as a diversion or as a messenger.

He could equally be associated with the Night's King for similar reasons, one of the last to hold what he believes is his post in the true Watch. His disgust or dread with the wights may be due to his viewing them as so inferior to the Others.

[wolfmaid7]

https://cantuse.wordpress.com/2014/09/02/broken-bonds-the-secrets-of-rhaegars-song/#more-543

This site has a link to the SSM, but I included here this essay because its interesting. Particularly, it notes the one line that was included from Jenny's Song

" high in the halls of the kings who are gone Jenny would dance with her Ghosts"

There's a bit of covert info here but more on this later.

[Voice]

I think he's either one of the original 13, or one of the NK's companions.

Why not both? It isn't out of the question for the original 13 to be NK and his companions. Perhaps those that fell before him rose again harder and stronger.

[Harlan]

As to the defense strategy, I completely agree that the first line of defense is the outer wall. Ideally nobody would get past it. But if an enemy did manage to breach it or get enough people on top to overwhelm the defenders, the moat (fire trap?) and inner wall will be very helpful.

After thinking about it some more, I agree it would be quite a task to have the whole moat on fire. But waiting with burning arrows and letting the wights accumulate before lighting them all on fire should still work.

I do want to say again that I am not claiming WF was definitely built to defend against Others and not men. Just that, if the Others did attack, its fortifications are very well suited for mounting an effective defense. And that it's possible this is not a coincidence.

Obviously the inner wall would serve as a secondary line of defense, but even after an enemy has taken the outer wall, there is no reason to try to set a fire trap for your enemies. Fire is inherently dangerous. Creating a huge conflagration within a few hundred feet of the perfectly burnable human houses inside Winterfell is a recipe for disaster. Once again, Winterfells defenders would be better off simply using fire arrows to eliminate individual or very small groups of wights who were making there assault on the inner wall is a safer and generally cheaper strategy.

This new hypothesis wherein the defenders of Winterfell would allow wights to build up in numbers in between the walls so as to burn them all at once is also absurd for the following simple reason. We already know that wights are capable of breaching/taking walls because, for this hypothetical, they have already captured the outer wall. Simply waiting form atop the inner wall for them to become dense is crazy as you would effectively just be waiting for the wights to take the inner wall leaving you dead. Not to mention the fact that very large conflagrations are still insanely dangerous.

I maintain that the two wall system is simply meant to make Winterfell in-general impossible/difficult for humans to take by storm. Its hard enough to bypass a single layer of defense (the outer wall) to take a city. It is even harder to proceed to take another defensive position, the inner wall. Especially since there are easy ways of attacking the outer wall from inside Winterfell as per Bran. That it seems like Winterfell would be capable of warding off wights is simply due to the fact that wights are, for the most part, Human and have similar combat capabilities.

[MaesterSam]

I think the Fist has the emotion that goes with it and the name makes me believe it was of significance.Didn't Sam ask Jon if he believed some great battle had taken place there?

It may have been the last stand for the remaining FM and where the Wights were told to leave.

I agree with you that Rhaegar's actions toward Lya had nothing to do with Prophecy,but i don't think it had anything to do with love either.A lot of speculation is made about how Rhaegar felf based on him taking Lya.It's an obvious choice to make,Rhaegar did this totally idiotic thing that caused a war,so he "must" have loved her.I don't think that was the case.

To clarify something about Elia and Rhaegar's relationship but if memory serves and the WB infers this(pg 120) Rhaegar choosing Elia was his doing.Aerys sent to the Freee cities to get him R a wife,he( Rhaegar) brokered that marraige himself because he probably genuinly loved her. What you list with respect to Elia could be seen differently.

1. Rhaegar was heir to the throne why agree to marry a sickly woman who may not give him heirs.

"A bride for our bright prince. Jon Connington remembered Prince Rhaegar’s wedding all too well.

Elia was never worthy of him. She was frail and sickly from the first, and childbirth only left her weaker.

After the birth of Princess Rhaenys, her mother had been bedridden for half a year, and Prince Aegon’s

birth had almost been the death of her. She would bear no more children, the maesters told Prince

Rhaegar afterward(Griffon Reborn,DWD).

We have external views on why Elia didn't deserve R,but still hemarried her could it have been he didn't care that she was sickly,he loved her?

Something that seldom gets looked at is Lyanna's character and personality.We get pictures of her( fans) of some flowery maiden probably all because she like "roses" and sniffled at R's song( The song could have been "Be true to yourself" for all we know.

But we get form the WB pg 126 that Lyanna was wild and "boyish".Maybe R went for that sought of thing :dunno: Ned says Lya would have been carrying a sword had their father allowed it.Lady Dustin calling her and Brandon a pair of Centaurs and Bran seeing her through the Weirnet shows sword playing paints a girl who didn't want to conform to the role of Westrosi woman.

No wonder she is compared to Arya( that conversation between Jon and Arya when they were watching Robb and Joff is a telling one). Therefore,I find it hard to believe Lya had any romantic ideas or notions towards anyone farless Rhaegar.Lets look at this seriously. What did Arya think about the noton of her being the Lady of a Castle with a husband and having kids??? She scoffed at that.

I totally believed Lya was raped,but not by Rhaegar though.

Consider this and you bring up an excellent point about the NK seeing the woman atop the Wall.

I wouldn't make that connection with R though.The NK persued her the quote is he "chased her". That's some obsessive crap right there.

That was Aerys in his pursuit of the KOTLT(pg 1126), he may have not done it physically himself but he was the one who chased her.

I have know doubt that R knew she (Lya) was the KOTLT,i just don't think he was the one who found her.

Some interesting points here. I don't personally believe R and E were in love- otherwise handing the roses to Lyanna right in front of Elia would have been even more cruel than we already assume it was. I mean really, what an asshole!

But I like the idea that Lya's stint as the KotLT had something to do with the events that followed. Ned tells Arya that the wolf's blood led Lya and Brandon to an early grave. Pretending to be a knight would certainly be something that could be attributed to the wolf's blood, so if that somehow led to the "abduction" and ultimately her death that would fit nicely.

But are you saying Aerys raped her? While that would certainly be an interesting twist, I don't think the timing works, if she is to give birth in the TOJ after the war. Also, the WB makes it sound like the abduction happened several weeks, if not months, after the Harrenhal tourney. (Which is weird, b/c why was Lyanna in the Riverlands then, alone, in the middle of winter?? Something's fishy...).

[RedViperofDorne54]

I just don't see the point of such a staged attack, or wights to keep everyone in the cave. The cave is exactly where they meant to be, and the cold is inhospitable, they couldn't run very far even if they wanted to.

:agree:

Not only are Bran and co trying to get to the cave but also I find it unlikely that they could make their way back to the wall without Coldhands if they tried to leave. I don't think there is a need for yard dogs to keep them in.

[Voice]

I'm not convinced about identifying Coldhands with the last hero. He's obviously been out there for a while but somehow no, it doesn't gel.

Don't you mean it doesn't congeal? har har har :D

One thing that does occur to me though when Leaf says he can't come in is that this warding business may be simpler than we've imagined. According to Leaf he can't enter the cave [so why then does he know so much about Bloodraven?] and according to him he can't pass the Wall. He tells Sam that only a sworn brother of the Nights Watch can open the gate, thus allowing the Scooby Gang, who aint sworn brothers, to pass through, but what if the warding itself is actually quite simple in blocking passage to dead things, ie; you can only pass the warding in the Wall and the cave if you are warm blooded.

Sure, I think I inferred as much last Heresy, but yes, I agree. This would also explain why Night's King needed the Night Fort in order to smuggle his terrible half-human children to the Others.

Half-human sounds like something with hot blood in its veins. And the fact that the Others were even interested in their offspring suggests this even more.

I think you are putting too much emphasis on the BR/CH relationship. I don't see it as hierarchical as you, I think. I do not believe BR explained the details of the Black Gate to CH. Rather, I think BR knew he could benefit from Coldhands' expertise at all things 'Night Fort' and so, called upon him to assist in escorting Bran to the cave. Coldhands knows the Night Fort because he served the NW when that was their headquarters. There is also the part of the story that mentions with strange sorceries he bound his Sworn Brothers to his will. What sort of activities might these bound brothers have been doing? My guess is they were the ones delivering the sacrifices. If Coldhands was one of these bound brothers, he would have likely been using the Black Gate to make deliveries.

Here's the other non-LH part of the story Bran shares at the Night Fort...in case anyone's looking for it:

He had been the thirteenth man to lead the Night’s Watch, she said; a warrior who knew no fear. “And that was the fault in him,” she would add, “for all men must know fear.” A woman was his downfall; a woman glimpsed from atop the Wall, with skin as white as the moon and eyes like blue stars. Fearing nothing, he chased her and caught her and loved her, though her skin was cold as ice, and when he gave his seed to her he gave his soul as well.

He brought her back to the Nightfort and proclaimed her a queen and himself her king, and with strange sorceries he bound his Sworn Brothers to his will. For thirteen years they had ruled, Night’s King and his corpse queen, till finally the Stark of Winterfell and Joramun of the wildlings had joined to free the Watch from bondage. After his fall, when it was found he had been sacrificing to the Others,

...

all records of Night’s King had been destroyed, his very name forbidden. “Some say he was a Bolton,” Old Nan would always end. “Some say a Magnar out of Skagos, some say Umber, Flint, or Norrey. Some would have you think he was a Woodfoot, from them who ruled Bear Island before the ironmen came. He never was. He was a Stark, the brother of the man who brought him down.” She always pinched Bran on the nose then, he would never forget it. “He was a Stark of Winterfell, and who can say? Mayhaps his name was Brandon. Mayhaps he slept in this very bed in this very room.”

No, Bran thought, but he walked in this castle, where we’ll sleep tonight. He did not like that notion very much at all. Night’s King was only a man by light of day, Old Nan would always say, but the night was his to rule. And it’s getting dark.

[Voice]

But is he genuinely frustrated or is he deliberately ramping up the tension. He's dead so he can't smell anything. Meera is certainly suspicious of the route he took to get there and his constant emphasis of danger. As we've discussed before its very easy to read this passage as the Scooby Gang being herded into the cave with the true purpose of the wights being as yard dogs to prevent them getting out again.

Remember also the way the Russian/Coldhands tells Marlow that it was Kurtz himself who ordered the attack on the pilgrims as they approached the village

Whoah there, we have nothing to suggest he can't smell. To the contrary, we know he can use his senses. Or are you arguing he cannot see Bran and Co., or feel his longsword in his hands, or the very Cold around them? The text suggests otherwise, quite strongly...

And it seems you're purposefully not acknowledging the fact that they wanted to go to that cave, anyway. Leaf's presence alone would have been enough to make Bran enter. And I think you're also neglecting the fact that the Blue Eyed Lot use Ice Spiders to harry their prey, not dogs :)

I'm not sure anyone, in all of Westeros, needs to be coerced into thinking that ice-cold-zombie-stranglers are something they should hate...

[Voice]

Martin stated in an SSM somewhere that he tried to write the lyrics to Jenny of Oldstones' song and couldn't get it just right, so that's the reason it's not in the text, but I've wondered if that was the song Rhaegar sang, especially the way we have the Ghost of High Heart calling for it from Tom in ASOS, and Arya hearing it then. That might build on the parallel not only with Arya but also on the idea of a prince throwing away his crown, whether he knew it or not.

That would be a nice parallel :thumbsup:

[Summer Is Coming!]

https://cantuse.wordpress.com/2014/09/02/broken-bonds-the-secrets-of-rhaegars-song/#more-543

This site has a link to the SSM, but I included here this essay because its interesting. Particularly, it notes the one line that was included from Jenny's Song

" high in the halls of the kings who are gone Jenny would dance with her Ghosts"

There's a bit of covert info here but more on this later.

Thanks for this, an interesting read. Thinking more about the Ghost of High Heart, I am reminded of the woman Odin meets when he rides to the gates of Hell in "Baldr's Dreams" in the Poetic Edda. The Ghost prophesied about the Red Wedding and other events, and I wonder if she could give more to anyone who asked her about the Long Night or the Others' coming. If only someone was asking the right questions, darned Brotherhood without Banners.

[MaesterSam]

A quick question regarding timelines: does anyone recall when (in relation to other events, such as RR) Tyrion and Tysha had their brief marriage? I found this passage from ADWD that makes me wonder if it was during that false spring when everything went to crap, but I don't know if that's accurate?

A light wind was riffling the waters of the pool below, all around the naked swordsman. It reminded him of how Tysha would riffle his hair during the false spring of their marriage, before he helped his father’s guardsmen rape her.

I realize "false spring of their marriage" could just be an expression. IIRC, Tyrion was 13 at the time, but do we know his exact age now?