Brandon the Builder, master of smooth, black stone?

[Asshat by the Shadow]

While re-reading aCoK, I came across an interesting bit of information. When Davos is smuggling Melisandre into Storm's End, Mel tells him, "this Storm's End is an old place. There are spells woven into the stones. Dark walls that no shadow can pass--ancient, forgotten, yet still in place." (aCoK, pg. 467). I checked the WoIaF after reading it and it appears that Brandon the Builder helped create Storm's End when he was a child, so I'm collecting other information about Brandon the Builder.

1. Brandon the builder is set in the time period just after the long night.

2. Brandon the Builder is associated with works that span over several lifetimes

3. The first stone portion of the Hightower is credited either to Brandon the Builder, or his son, another Brandon.

4. Brandon the Builder helped design Storm's End as a child.

5. Brandon created Winterfell as his high seat for his descendants.

6. Brandon designed the Wall, which is said to be based on stone, with ice built all around it.

So from this information, we can sort of piece together some of the truth of Brandon the Builder's life. I theorize that Brandon the Builder is actually an amalgamation of the original Brandon the Builder, and his son, also Brandon. Two generations of Brandon, coupled with the extended lifespans of those in the Age of Heroes, explains why his works are spread so far out in time.

It is my belief that both Brandon the Elder and Brandon the Younger worked on the Hightower of Oldtown together. In this process, they would have been able to study the base layer of the tower--built of the mysterious smooth, black stone that is so prevalent throughout the WoIaF.

Brandon the Younger, still a child, may have learned the technique for infusing the stone with magic from, and alongside, his father, bringing the information to Durran Godsgrief when he erected the final incarnation of Storm's End.

One, or both, of the Brandons would have taken the technique North, creating the Wall, starting with a base layer of the smooth, black stone before enlisting the giants to build around it with massive blocks of ice.

This would explain the similarities of protective magic guarding both the Wall and Storm's End. Coldhands and the Others can't pass through the wall unless they are brought through to the other side before returning to life, as the wights did in aGoT. Similarly, the shadow baby can't enter Storm's End unless Melisandre gives birth to it inside the fortress's walls.

Likely, the same technique was used while building Winterfell, but since the current form of Winterfell was created over several thousands of years, piecemeal, likely the only part of Winterfell that retains the black stone is the oldest part of the castle--the crypts.

The story of Brandon the Builder gives us the greatest indication of what the black stone is used for. It acts as protection from entities born of both fire magic and ice magic.

[Mithras]

Storm's End does not have black stones. The foundation of Hightower and the Seastone Chair are the only things in Westeros that are made from fused black stones. Here is my take about Brandon the Builder.

Their song and music was said to be as beautiful as they were, but what they sang of is not remembered save in small fragments handed down from ancient days. Maester Childer’s Winter’s Kings, or the Legends and Lineages of the Starks of Winterfell contains a part of a ballad alleged to tell of the time Brandon the Builder sought the aid of the children while raising the Wall. He was taken to a secret place to meet with them, but could not at first understand their speech, which was described as sounding like the song of stones in a brook, or the wind through leaves, or the rain upon the water. The manner in which Brandon learned to comprehend the speech of the children is a tale in itself, and not worth repeating here. But it seems clear that their speech originated, or drew inspiration from, the sounds they heard every day.

How the Long Night came to an end is a matter of legend, as all such matters of the distant past have become. In the North, they tell of a last hero who sought out the intercession of the children of the forest, his companions abandoning him or dying one by one as they faced ravenous giants, cold servants, and the Others themselves. Alone he finally reached the children, despite the efforts of the white walkers, and all the tales agree this was a turning point. Thanks to the children, the first men of the Night’s Watch banded together and were able to fight— and win— the Battle for the Dawn: the last battle that broke the endless winter and sent the Others fleeing to the icy north. Now, six thousand years later (or eight thousand as True History puts forward), the Wall made to defend the realms of men is still manned by the sworn brothers of the Night’s Watch, and neither the Others nor the children have been seen in many centuries.

However, if this fell winter did take place, as the tales say, the privation would have been terrible to behold. During the hardest winters, it is customary for the oldest and most infirm amongst the northmen to claim they are going out hunting— knowing full well they will never return and thus leaving a little more food for those likelier to survive. Doubtless this practice was common during the Long Night.

Legend says that Brandon the Builder raised Winterfell after the generation-long winter known as the Long Night to become the stronghold of his descendants, the Kings of Winter. As Brandon the Builder is connected with an improbable number of great works (Storm’s End and the Wall, to name but two prominent examples) over a span of numerous lifetimes, the tales have likely turned some ancient king, or a number of different kings of House Stark (for there have been many Brandons in the long reign of that family) into something more legendary.

Yandel is definitely wrong here. Brandon the Builder was a hybrid of human male-CotF female and his father was the LH. Because of his CotF mother, he had a short stature (which is why he was mistaken for a child) and a very long life that spanned many human generations.

The first “high tower,” the chroniclers tell us, was made of wood and rose some fifty feet above the ancient fortress that was its foundation. Neither it, nor the taller timber towers that followed in the centuries to come, were meant to be a dwelling; they were purely beacon towers, built to light a path for trading ships up the fog-shrouded waters of Whispering Sound. The early Hightowers lived amidst the gloomy halls, vaults, and chambers of the strange stone below. It was only with the building of the fifth tower, the first to be made entirely of stone, that the Hightower became a seat worthy of a great house. That tower, we are told, rose two hundred feet above the harbor. Some say it was designed by Brandon the Builder, whilst others name his son, another Brandon; the king who demanded it, and paid for it, is remembered as Uthor of the High Tower.

It was definitely Brandon the Builder who built the first stone Hightower. Before that, there were 4 wooden Hightowers. One might ask whether those wooden Hightowers collapsed from natural causes or were destroyed by the CotF, especially if they were built from weirwood. But after the construction of the first stone Hightower there seems to be a close relationship between Hightowers and CotF/Old Gods.

The origins of the Citadel are almost as mysterious as those of the Hightower itself. Most credit its founding to the second son of Uthor of the High Tower, Prince Peremore the Twisted. A sickly boy, born with a withered arm and twisted back, Peremore was bedridden for much of his short life but had an insatiable curiosity about the world beyond his window, so he turned to wise men, teachers, priests, healers, and singers, along with a certain number of wizards, alchemists, and sorcerers. It is said the prince had no greater pleasure in life than listening to these scholars argue with one another. When Peremore died, his brother King Urrigon bequeathed a large tract of land beside the Honeywine to “Peremore’s pets,” that they might establish themselves and continue teaching, learning, and questing after truth. And so they did.

Those you call the children of the forest have eyes as golden as the sun, but once in a great while one is born amongst them with eyes as red as blood, or green as the moss on a tree in the heart of the forest. By these signs do the gods mark those they have chosen to receive the gift. The chosen ones are not robust, and their quick years upon the earth are few, for every song must have its balance. But once inside the wood they linger long indeed. A thousand eyes, a hundred skins, wisdom deep as the roots of ancient trees. Greenseers.

Peremore the Twisted was a greenseer and he founded the Citadel along with his brother. They were the sons of Uthor of the High Tower, who was a collaborator of Brandon the Builder. In this thread, I further explored a curious relationship between the Citadel and the CotF.

[SacredOrderOfGreenMen]

I believe that there is another possibility:

Because of the close association of Winterfell to the weirwoods, (being called at one point "a monstrous stone tree") as well as the Starks to the Last Hero to the CotF, I believe in fact that the Builder was greenseer. In fact, I believe that the Stark family as we see it now is comparable to a literal tree.

Consider this: Bloodraven told Bran that it was the Singers who taught the First Men to send messages by raven, but in the old days the ravens spoke the words. This is strongly suggests that many First Men were skinchangers and even had powers of greensight.

I believe that as he grew older, the Builder physically bound himself to the tree to extend his love, as Bloodraven has done, to continue his work. That's why he and other kings of the era were said to reign for hundreds of years. Because they did.

[Asshat by the Shadow]

Storm's End does not have black stones. The foundation of Hightower and the Seastone Chair are the only things in Westeros that are made from fused black stones. Here is my take about Brandon the Builder.

Their song and music was said to be as beautiful as they were, but what they sang of is not remembered save in small fragments handed down from ancient days. Maester Childer’s Winter’s Kings, or the Legends and Lineages of the Starks of Winterfell contains a part of a ballad alleged to tell of the time Brandon the Builder sought the aid of the children while raising the Wall. He was taken to a secret place to meet with them, but could not at first understand their speech, which was described as sounding like the song of stones in a brook, or the wind through leaves, or the rain upon the water. The manner in which Brandon learned to comprehend the speech of the children is a tale in itself, and not worth repeating here. But it seems clear that their speech originated, or drew inspiration from, the sounds they heard every day.

Storm's End has walls that are said to be 40 feet thick at the narrowest, and up to 80 feet thick on the seaward side. A solid inner core of black stone infused with magic from the children of the forest would be a likely explanation for why this incarnation remains standing while all the rest failed. The outer walls don't need to be black.

The Hightower and the Seastone Chair are the only things Maester Yendel knows in Westeros that are built of fused black stones, but as Melisandre points out, the dark walls of Storm's End are ancient and forgotten.

The Wall, too. In the WoIaF, Yendel conjectures that "it may be that the earliest foundations were of stone..." It doesn't say anything about black, fused stone, but I'm just speculating here.

Three major structures built by Brandon the Builder--the Hightower, Storm's End, and the Wall, all with a foundation of stone, one of which is certainly black fused stone, one of which is implied by Melisandre that it may be black stone, and one that is only vaguely purported to be "stone," respectively.

I hadn't really thought about BtB being half-CotF, but I assumed CotF blood found its way into the Stark line somewhere along the way, to make human greenseers possible. I like that explanation, as it simplifies the reports of BtB being a child.

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

I believe we can only connect Storms End (via the Magic in the stone work), The Wall (Its Magic) and Winterfell. The Hightower is something else. Storm's End is said to be more advanced than First Men architecture but little is left of Winterfell's old structure to compare it. Whatever Bran was, even if he was a 'Homer' figure, I think the work was unlike anything else and suggests a connection to other races.

[Lord_Pepsi_Cupps]

The interesting thing about Bran the Builder is that he is meant to have gotten help from the Children of the Forest - which is strange, considering that he, as a "builder" (the builder) represents very strongly the First Men and how they differ from the CotF, who built nothing. Building on the scale on which Bran is meant to have built also requires cutting down a lot of trees, clearing fields etc - again not something the CotF are likely to enjoy. So it seems strange that this First Man who seems to embody a major difference and point of contention between the FM and the CotF (building in stone) is somehow in alliance with the CotF?

This is one of the things that makes me thing there really were multiple Brans. The last hero is known to have gotten help from the CotF, and it's quite possible the last hero was a Bran as well (since his story of going out in the north with companions and a dog to seek out the CotF strongly mirrors Bran's in ASOIAF). Perhaps he got mixed up with Bran the Builder who would not have been friendly with the children at all.

ETA: I thinks it possible that Storms End, the High Tower and other significant structures were attributed to Bran the Builder after the fact. He made his name building Winterfell and the Wall, and his fame was such that in the telling of his story, other large and inexplicable structures were attributed to him. It makes sense that his main works are in the North, and the other attributions less likely. The legend of Bran the Builder is strongest in the North, and he is widely acknowledged as the progenitor of the Starks, so it's likely that that's where it spread from to other places.

[Uhtred of Bebbanburg]

I am Uhtred and I will crush you minions.

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

The interesting thing about Bran the Builder is that he is meant to have gotten help from the Children of the Forest - which is strange, considering that he, as a "builder" (the builder) represents very strongly the First Men and how they differ from the CotF, who built nothing. Building on the scale on which Bran is meant to have built also requires cutting down a lot of trees, clearing fields etc - again not something the CotF are likely to enjoy. So it seems strange that this First Man who seems to embody a major difference and point of contention between the FM and the CotF (building in stone) is somehow in alliance with the CotF?

This is one of the things that makes me thing there really were multiple Brans. The last hero is known to have gotten help from the CotF, and it's quite possible the last hero was a Bran as well (since his story of going out in the north with companions and a dog to seek out the CotF strongly mirrors Bran's in ASOIAF). Perhaps he got mixed up with Bran the Builder who would not have been friendly with the children at all.

ETA: I thinks it possible that Storms End, the High Tower and other significant structures were attributed to Bran the Builder after the fact. He made his name building Winterfell and the Wall, and his fame was such that in the telling of his story, other large and inexplicable structures were attributed to him. It makes sense that his main works are in the North, and the other attributions less likely. The legend of Bran the Builder is strongest in the North, and he is widely acknowledged as the progenitor of the Starks, so it's likely that that's where it spread from to other places.

The Children may have built the unconquerable Moat Cailin.

[Lord_Pepsi_Cupps]

The Children may have built the unconquerable Moat Cailin.

It says the FM built Moat Cailin 10,000 years ago, which would put it right around the time of the Pact. The CotF are only mentioned in connection with Moat Cailin because it was from there that they attempted to break the Neck and separate the North from the rest of Westeros.

It's possible the FM didn't build Moat Cailin either and that it was instead built by the same people who built the base of the High Tower. Although you'd think it wouldnt have ended up as a ruin then? I suppose that after the CotF flooded the Neck, Moat Cailin remained hugely important, but it also was no longer necessary for it to be the size that it was. The causeway across the Neck is so narrow that the three remaining towers of Moat Cailin are all that's required to guard it. So perhaps it's a ruin today because there was no need the maintain it over time (like there was for the High Tower and Storm's End).

[aryagonnakill#2]

Moat Cailin is huge black stones, Storms End is stones that are fit perfectly together and according to Mel hold ancient magic, the Seastone chair is oily black stone, the base of the Hightower is fused blackstone that is not described as greasy. The Hightower matches the fused stone of the mazes of Lorath, Moat Cailin seems a match to the 5 forts and Yeen, the seastone chair seems to match the stone that a church in Yi Ti worships, and the frog relic in the Basilisk isles, Storms End seems unique, as does Ashai.

[TheSovereignGrave]

Moat Cailin is huge black stones, Storms End is stones that are fit perfectly together and according to Mel hold ancient magic, the Seastone chair is oily black stone, the base of the Hightower is fused blackstone that is not described as greasy. The Hightower matches the fused stone of the mazes of Lorath, Moat Cailin seems a match to the 5 forts and Yeen, the seastone chair seems to match the stone that a church in Yi Ti worships, and the frog relic in the Basilisk isles, Storms End seems unique, as does Ashai.

I believe Moat Cailin is specifically described as being built of basalt, not some stranger black stone. And it seems like a pretty typical structure, whereas the Five Forts and Yeen are both massive (and the Five Forts are fused stone, whilst Yeen is built of absolutely massive blocks). And the Mazes of Lorath isn't fused black stone, it's made out of normal stone blocks.

[Lord_Pepsi_Cupps]

When you read through all the various comparisons (everything is scattered so as to not seem obvious), you realise that most of these structures are linked. The High Tower, Asshai, the mazes, the Seastone Chair, the Five Forts, Yeen and the toad statue on Toad Island. One description of the High Tower for example will say that the stone was black, but then in another place it's said the stone is the same as the Seastone Chair, which is then described as oily. There's loads of these interconnected hints.

Storm's End, Winterfell and Moat Cailin are unclear. Storm's End possibly, Winterfell unclear, MC unlikely.

[aryagonnakill#2]

Moat Cailin is not described in the worldbook, but it its described in GOT as having massive black stones, I do not believe it was ever described as basalt.

[TheSovereignGrave]

When you read through all the various comparisons (everything is scattered so as to not seem obvious), you realise that most of these structures are linked. The High Tower, Asshai, the mazes, the Seastone Chair, the Five Forts, Yeen and the toad statue on Toad Island. One description of the High Tower for example will say that the stone was black, but then in another place it's said the stone is the same as the Seastone Chair, which is then described as oily. There's loads of these interconnected hints.

Storm's End, Winterfell and Moat Cailin are unclear. Storm's End possibly, Winterfell unclear, MC unlikely.

It's never explicitly stated that the stone of High Tower's base and the Seastone Chair are the same, just that one Maester proposed that they were constructed by the same ancient race. And I think the Mazes of Lorath are even less connected than anything else; they're just labyrinthine ruins. The only connection is a Maester proposing that High Tower's base may have been built by them because the interior is like a maze. But that theory holds no ground in my opinion, since the base and the mazes are built completely differently.

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

Storm's End does not have black stones. The foundation of Hightower and the Seastone Chair are the only things in Westeros that are made from fused black stones.

we don´t know that... all of Brandon´s buildings were rebuilt many times. For all we know, Winterfell, the Wall and Storm´s End, have (black)stone foundations. In fact, i think it was yours the theory of Brandon being the last hero, and the first skinchanger dragonrider... if so, he would be the only one, in Westeros, with the instrument to create black (fused) dragonstone.. which in turn explains his great achievements way too advance for his age.

Storm’s End is surely an old castle, but when compared to the ruined ringforts of the First Men or even the First Keep of Winterfell (which a past maester in service to the Starks examined and found to have been rebuilt so many times that a precise dating could not be made), the great tower and perfectly joined stones of the Storm’s End curtain wall seem much beyond what the First Men were capable of for many thousands of years. The great effort involved in raising the Wall was one thing, but that was more a brute effort than the high art needed to make a wall where even the wind cannot find purchase. Archmaester Vyron, in his Triumphs and Defeats, speculates that the tale’s claim that the final form of Storm’s End was the seventh castle shows a clear Andal influence, and if true, this suggests the possibility that the final form of the castle was only achieved in Andal times. Mayhaps the castle was rebuilt on the site of earlier castles, but if so, it was long after Durran Godsgrief and his fair Elenei had passed from this earth.

The castle itself is peculiar in that the Starks did not level the ground when laying down the foundations and walls of the castle. Very likely, this reveals that the castle was built in pieces over the years rather than being planned as a single structure. Some scholars suspect that it was once a complex of linked ringforts, though the centuries have eradicated almost all evidence of this.

It was not always so. Whether the legends are true or not, it is plain that the First Men and the children of the forest (and even the giants, if we take the word of the singers) feared something enough that it drove them to begin raising the Wall. And this great construction, as simple as it is, is justly accounted among the wonders of the world. It may be that its earliest foundations were of stone—the maesters differ in this—but now all that can be seen for a distance of a hundred leagues is ice.

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

It says the FM built Moat Cailin 10,000 years ago, which would put it right around the time of the Pact. The CotF are only mentioned in connection with Moat Cailin because it was from there that they attempted to break the Neck and separate the North from the rest of Westeros.

It's possible the FM didn't build Moat Cailin either and that it was instead built by the same people who built the base of the High Tower. Although you'd think it wouldnt have ended up as a ruin then? I suppose that after the CotF flooded the Neck, Moat Cailin remained hugely important, but it also was no longer necessary for it to be the size that it was. The causeway across the Neck is so narrow that the three remaining towers of Moat Cailin are all that's required to guard it. So perhaps it's a ruin today because there was no need the maintain it over time (like there was for the High Tower and Storm's End).

So you interpret it that the children were where Moat Cailin now stands before it was built and they broke the neck there rather than having built it and broke the next from there? The First Men then advance and build Moat Cailin in that place?

Because if the First Men are advancing from the south, they aren't going to be building a Fortress that defends against the south!

we don´t know that... all of Brandon´s buildings were rebuilt many times. For all we know, Winterfell, the Wall and Storm´s End, have (black)stone foundations. In fact, i think it was yours the theory of Brandon being the last hero, and the first skinchanger dragonrider... if so, he would be the only one, in Westeros, with the instrument to create black (fused) dragonstone.. which in turn explains his great achievements way too advance for his age.

Yandel thinks First Men were uneducated messes when in fact they lived differently, they lived with magic. Why have history books when you have greenseers?

His suggestions about Winterfell are all unlikely. The ground wasn't levelled because something is underneath in all likelihood. And there is no evidence of a series of ringforts because there probably weren't a series of ringforts. But Yandel takes the 'uncommon' to be 'incorrect'. And it is almost impossible for Storms End to have been built by Andals as Andals do not practise magic. All his assertions about the First Men are along the lines of 'They were backward and its too good for them' and reflects an Andal bias proliferated by a cultural invasion.

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

Yandel thinks First Men were uneducated messes when in fact they lived differently, they lived with magic. Why have history books when you have greenseers?

His suggestions about Winterfell are all unlikely. The ground wasn't levelled because something is underneath in all likelihood. And there is no evidence of a series of ringforts because there probably weren't a series of ringforts. But Yandel takes the 'uncommon' to be 'incorrect'. And it is almost impossible for Storms End to have been built by Andals as Andals do not practise magic. All his assertions about the First Men are along the lines of 'They were backward and its too good for them' and reflects an Andal bias proliferated by a cultural invasion.

the CotF magic kicks in when creating magical protections..as in brans cave, the Wall, Storms End (and probably winterfell).. Bradon needed their help in that.

but COTF didn´t build stuff, much less castles.. they didn´t have more skills at this than the FM.

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

the CotF magic kicks in when creating magical protections..as in brans cave, the Wall, Storms End (and probably winterfell).. Bradon needed their help in that.

but COTF didn´t build stuff, much less castles.. they didn´t have more skills at this than the FM.

I dont think they were in the habit of building above ground before the First Men. But the crossover of the two cultures led to benefits for both.

[jmacdizzle]

While re-reading aCoK, I came across an interesting bit of information. When Davos is smuggling Melisandre into Storm's End, Mel tells him, "this Storm's End is an old place. There are spells woven into the stones. Dark walls that no shadow can pass--ancient, forgotten, yet still in place." (aCoK, pg. 467). I checked the WoIaF after reading it and it appears that Brandon the Builder helped create Storm's End when he was a child, so I'm collecting other information about Brandon the Builder.

1. Brandon the builder is set in the time period just after the long night.

2. Brandon the Builder is associated with works that span over several lifetimes

3. The first stone portion of the Hightower is credited either to Brandon the Builder, or his son, another Brandon.

4. Brandon the Builder helped design Storm's End as a child.

5. Brandon created Winterfell as his high seat for his descendants.

6. Brandon designed the Wall, which is said to be based on stone, with ice built all around it.

So from this information, we can sort of piece together some of the truth of Brandon the Builder's life. I theorize that Brandon the Builder is actually an amalgamation of the original Brandon the Builder, and his son, also Brandon. Two generations of Brandon, coupled with the extended lifespans of those in the Age of Heroes, explains why his works are spread so far out in time.

It is my belief that both Brandon the Elder and Brandon the Younger worked on the Hightower of Oldtown together. In this process, they would have been able to study the base layer of the tower--built of the mysterious smooth, black stone that is so prevalent throughout the WoIaF.

Brandon the Younger, still a child, may have learned the technique for infusing the stone with magic from, and alongside, his father, bringing the information to Durran Godsgrief when he erected the final incarnation of Storm's End.

One, or both, of the Brandons would have taken the technique North, creating the Wall, starting with a base layer of the smooth, black stone before enlisting the giants to build around it with massive blocks of ice.

This would explain the similarities of protective magic guarding both the Wall and Storm's End. Coldhands and the Others can't pass through the wall unless they are brought through to the other side before returning to life, as the wights did in aGoT. Similarly, the shadow baby can't enter Storm's End unless Melisandre gives birth to it inside the fortress's walls.

Likely, the same technique was used while building Winterfell, but since the current form of Winterfell was created over several thousands of years, piecemeal, likely the only part of Winterfell that retains the black stone is the oldest part of the castle--the crypts.

The story of Brandon the Builder gives us the greatest indication of what the black stone is used for. It acts as protection from entities born of both fire magic and ice magic.

where did it say there was black stone in winterfell?

[Lord Martin]

My inclination is to think that the Seastone Chair and the base of the High Tower were put there by the first visitors to Westeros who came across the sunset sea from the far east.

The term First Men is likely a misnomer as it looks like there was human activity on Battle Island in Old Town before Garth Greenhand or anyone else crossed the arm of Dorne. I prefer the suggestion these were proto-Valyrians and that the black stones are the pre-cursors to Valyrian construction, like Dragonstone.

I do wonder how "human" these men were. We know the Valyrians used blood magic to mix races... I suspect the proto-Valyrians did likewise. It would explain why men were able to walk out of the sea and could also explain the skin changing abilities of the Farwynds who reside as far west as anyone in Westeros.

I do agree that there is come conflation of more than one Brandon Stark... it could be more than 2 even. I also suspect that at least one of these Brandon's got mixed up with the Others and became the Night's King, probably the first Brandon aka The Last Hero.

Damn I love this mythology stuff in the north!