Stannis and Renly decide to work together.

[Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren]

Yeah this would be out of character probably but lets assume it happens to examine how the war turns out. Back in GOT, Robert dies Joffrey becomes king and Renly leaves Kingslanding and then Renly and Stannis communicate with each other and decide for Renly to support Stannis for the throne. In exchange Renly is to be made heir until Stannis has a son, or/and become Stannis Hand if he wishes. Renly would attempt to get the Tyrells in the alliance.

Would the Tyrells stay out of it, join Renly who is heir of the throne and support Stannis or join the Lannisters? Does the north join Stannis? Would Stannis win the throne?

[Lee-Sensei]

Renly might be able to convince Mace Tyrell to marry off one of his sons to Shireen? Or not. It's a hard sell. There's a fairly large age gap and if Stannis has a son Shireen won't inherit. Maybe if he can convince Stannis to give seats in his Small Council to Mace and some of his bannermen.

[Minsc]

Mace Tyrells reaches out to Tywin Lannister about marrying his daughter to his grandson, then the Tyrells and Lannisters easily win the war.

[Lee-Sensei]

@Minsc Not necessarily. If they attack KL immediately Tywin might lose. At this point in the story the Iron Born haven't invaded the North and Robb is winning and for all he knows the Vale would join. If KL falls, Mace probably wouldn't want to join.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

That would get the information that Joffrey is a bastard to the Northmen/Riverlanders in time for them to declare for Stannis. Which in turn would prompt the Vale to do the same. Lysa couldn't prevent that anymore.

And oops, that's the winning coalition from Robert's Rebellion.

The Tyrells would fall in line as well. Good relations to Renly, joining the stronger side, no problem. Probably the Greyjoys as well, plunder the Westerlands and going to get praise for it. Doran finally has a chance to take revenge on the Lannisters.

Everybody against the Rock. Where a lot of bannermen would think twice about supporting the incest-spawn.

[MyLittleFinger]

Renly might be able to convince Mace Tyrell to marry off one of his sons to Shireen? Or not. It's a hard sell. There's a fairly large age gap and if Stannis has a son Shireen won't inherit. Maybe if he can convince Stannis to give seats in his Small Council to Mace and some of his bannermen.

Plus he has to hope that Selyse doesn't pop out a boy ruining his entire premise.

[Crowford]

I think it would actually turn out much the same. The Tyrells were bought with the promise of a marriage to the future King, they wouldn't settle for the claimants younger brother (and likely not successor). It was the Tyrell dislike for the Lannisters and his quick actions that made it possible for Renly to secure him an army with his marriage to Margaery. However, if a marriage the Renly is much less desirable because he takes a backseat to his brother, Mace Tyrell will be a lot more likely to listen to Tywin when he comes knocking and offers up Joffrey instead.

So maybe Stannis would end up with a slight advantage, in that he does not have to divert time to fight Renly and could go straight for King's Landing. On the other hand, with the Tyrells pledging themselves to Joffrey from the beginning, he also loses the advantage that Tywin initially thought he would have to fight a war on three fronts, and viewed Stannis as the least of his problems.

The North would still go the way they did. Robb was already on the march before he could know exactly how Renly's loyalties would play out. That he might end up treating with Stannis and/or Renly anyway is another question.

[Nyrhex]

Robb hears that Ned is dead, Stannis declares himself king based on the fact that the twincest trio are bastards, and the Stormlands are with him. He clicks like Catelyn that this is likely why Bran fell, and declares for Stannis on the spot. The only reasons he did not declare for Renly in the books were that Robb believed that Joffrey was legit, and that Renly had a lesser claim than Stannis' either way.

The Tyrells marry Margaery to Renly, Loras is engaged to Shireen, and Tyrells get a couple of Small Council seats, and join as the loyal bannermen.

Baratheon curbstomp all the way. Balon might think twice before launching his attack, and if he does the Iron Islands will have another island made of skulls this time.

The wildfire is not ready, so no major risk to the capital or to either army or navy, Tywin's host is destroyed if he does not surrender on the spot, and the Westerlands have nothing left for to surrender.

Dorne has no room to play with, and if they don't act, which is likely, they get nothing. Same as the past 15 years. If Doran wants revenge, he can sit and watch as all those who wronged him are dying or stripped of power. If he wants to gain power, he has little to offer and little to work with.

The Vale likely stays out. When Stannis' rule is established, he may demand Robert to come to court, as was the agreement between him and Jon Arryn. Lyas would have a hard time explaining refusal.

[David Selig]

Obviously the smart thing to do would've been for Stannis to support Renly's claim. This keeps the Tyrells on their side which changes everything, and Renly is way more acceptable for king for the rest of the realm too since nobody likes Stannis much. But Stannis' ego prevented this from happening.

[Urswyck the Faithful]

Obviously the smart thing to do would've been for Stannis to support Renly's claim. This keeps the Tyrells on their side which changes everything, and Renly is way more acceptable for king for the rest of the realm too since nobody likes Stannis much. But Stannis' ego prevented this from happening.

Renly's ego also mutually prevents this from occurring. If he were to support Stannis the Tyrells would follow and then the rest if perhaps reluctantly.

[Guard of the Rainking]

Robb hears that Ned is dead, Stannis declares himself king based on the fact that the twincest trio are bastards, and the Stormlands are with him. He clicks like Catelyn that this is likely why Bran fell, and declares for Stannis on the spot. The only reasons he did not declare for Renly in the books were that Robb believed that Joffrey was legit, and that Renly had a lesser claim than Stannis' either way.

The Tyrells marry Margaery to Renly, Loras is engaged to Shireen, and Tyrells get a couple of Small Council seats, and join as the loyal bannermen.

Baratheon curbstomp all the way. Balon might think twice before launching his attack, and if he does the Iron Islands will have another island made of skulls this time.

The wildfire is not ready, so no major risk to the capital or to either army or navy, Tywin's host is destroyed if he does not surrender on the spot, and the Westerlands have nothing left for to surrender.

Dorne has no room to play with, and if they don't act, which is likely, they get nothing. Same as the past 15 years. If Doran wants revenge, he can sit and watch as all those who wronged him are dying or stripped of power. If he wants to gain power, he has little to offer and little to work with.

The Vale likely stays out. When Stannis' rule is established, he may demand Robert to come to court, as was the agreement between him and Jon Arryn. Lyas would have a hard time explaining refusal.

:agree:

Although it might be wise for Stannis to give Gregor and Lorch to Doran.

Oh and then there's FAegon, Euron and Dany, but Stannis should have the superior numbers.

[Minsc]

Renly's ego also mutually prevents this from occurring. If he were to support Stannis the Tyrells would follow and then the rest if perhaps reluctantly.

The Tyrells have no reason to support any outcome that places Stannis on the throne seeing it was completely contrary to their interests. What with Stannis holding a bitter grudge against them and he is additionally married to woman from a house that is constantly egging for their position.

[Guard of the Rainking]

The High Septon would probably still be the fat one right?

[Urswyck the Faithful]

The Tyrells have no reason to support any outcome that places Stannis on the throne seeing it was completely contrary to their interests. What with Stannis holding a bitter grudge against them and he is additionally married to woman from a house that is constantly egging for their position.

Perhaps not readily but they have a short window to choose sides, if Renly and Stannis came to agreement they would fall upon Kings Landing before the Tyrells could come to terms with the Lannisters or at least before such terms were a low risk. Balon might not act the way he did (not sure of time frame) but regardless Robb might have time to strike a more open common cause with the Baratheons. The Tyrells may simply not have any choice but to back a winning horse even of they don't gain anything major out of it...

[Minsc]

Perhaps not readily but they have a short window to choose sides, if Renly and Stannis came to agreement they would fall upon Kings Landing before the Tyrells could come to terms with the Lannisters or at least before such terms were a low risk.

Why is everyone assuming that Renly and Stannis would be able to come to terms so quickly? Heck, Stannis didn't even announce himself to months after Robert's death which would give Tywin plenty of time to reach out to Mace.

[Urswyck the Faithful]

Why is everyone assuming that Renly and Stannis would be able to come to terms so quickly? Heck, Stannis didn't even announce himself to months after Robert's death which would give Tywin plenty of time to reach out to Mace.

Well it is the issue of this thread we are discussing... the hypothetical scenario where they DO find agreement.

[Minsc]

Well it is the issue of this thread we are discussing... the hypothetical scenario where they DO find agreement.

They can come to agreement, but that doesn't means that said agreement is this quickly achieved action.

[Bronn Urgandy]

If they move quickly, they win. Stannis attacks with the Lords of Dragonstone by sea, Renly attacks with the Stormlords by land. Shit, Loras is with Renly anyway, this may force Mace or at least some of the more ambitious men from the Reach's to support, the North declare for Stannis but that's neither here nor there at this point.

If they move slowly (more likely) they one or both must fight Tywin, for the Baratheon brothers, this is a winnable engagement, but this gives Mace time to think, loyalty to his favourite son with the outlying possibility of his daughter on the Throne, or teach Loras that life is shit and guarantee a daughter on the Throne? We don't know enough about Mace to decide whether family or ambition comes first, and I imagine that Renly, Stannis and Tywin don't either.

[Urswyck the Faithful]

They can come to agreement, but that doesn't means that said agreement is this quickly achieved action.

Agreed but they may agree that time is of the essence also and agree to move quickly- so many factors to consider!

[Good Guy Garlan]

I don't know, man. Naming Renly Stannis' heir was a pretty sweet offer, especially considering that Stannis and Selyse have sex like once a year. So the odds really would've been on Renly's side

Plus, another incentive for the Tyrells to join the Baratheons: the spoils of war of the rich Westerlands

And like people said, Stannis wouldn't have had to go all the way to Storm's End if he knew Renly was on his side. He could've launched a preliminary attack on the city, and there's no wildfire to stop him, the Antler Men would be doing their thing, and he might've even captured Tommen too.