The Kingsguard that Robert should have picked

[James Steller]

As we know, the Kingsguard was down to Barristan Selmy and Jaime Lannister when Robert became king, and one of them had murdered the king he was supposed to protect. So that's one dubious knight and five vacancies.

We can all safely agree that Robert's "choices" encouraged by Cersei were absolutely bad choices. But considering the options that would have been available at the time, who would you have decided to appoint as members of the Kingsguard? Assume it's a couple of days after the sack of King's Landing, and you're not going to listen to Cersei nor care what the Lannisters have to say about your decisions (after all, you have the might of the Stormlands, North, Vale, and Riverlands behind you).

[MyLittleFinger]

What choices were "encouraged" by Cersei?

Greenfield was the only Westerman chosen and Jaime was probably a good gesture to Tywin as well as a weird "Robert-esque" notion of "justice"

Selmy was the greatest knight alive and took his pardon

Trant was a Stormlander and likely a follower of him since the beginning since by the time we meet him he's like 38-40 something.

Moore was a Valeman and apparently deadly and lived only for duty (Jon Arryn pick)

Blount was a Crownlander

Oakheart was a Reachman

I'd have gone

Selmy LC

Jaime

Moore

Corbray

Greenfield

Oakheart

Brynden Tully

[Barri_The_Bold]

I can't think of many knights right now, but let's see...

Brynden Tully - although he is old he is a fine swordsman and honorable man but not a stupid honorable like Ned. And he's still younger than Barristan, so that's that

Barristan Selmy - badass old gramps who's well known and resprected all over the realm and keeps to his vows

Balon Swann - although we don't know much about him, he seems to be okay. He's not a Duncan or Arthur Dayne, but he'll do

Some knights from the Vale, they still seem to be "real" knights who don't just want the title but behave as though they deserve it. Don't have anyone in particular in mind, simply because I don't know any by name ;)

[Bob Sacamano]

Only one comes to mind. The Blackfish!!

[Krusty Kraken]

All I know is I would never ever ever have given a white cloak to a man as incompetent as Boros Blount. Just no

[markg171]

Mandon Moore wasn't a bad choice

Jaime had once told him that Moore was the most dangerous of the Kingsguard-excepting himself, always-because his face gave no hint as what he might do next.

Tyrion glanced round the yard. “Where’s the Stark girl?”

For a moment no one answered. Finally Joffrey said, “She was riding by me. I don’t know where she went.”

Tyrion pressed blunt fingers into his throbbing temples. If Sansa Stark had come to harm, Jaime was as good as dead. “Ser Mandon, you were her shield.”

Ser Mandon Moore remained untroubled. “When they mobbed the Hound, I thought first of the king.”

His two white shadows were always with him; Balon Swann and Mandon Moore, beautiful in their pale plate. Surrounded by a circle of Velaryon spearmen, they fought back to back; they made battle as graceful as a dance.

At the ram his big red reared but the black stallion leapt the obstacle smoothly and Ser Mandon flashed past him, death in snow-white silk. His sword sheared off limbs, cracked heads, broke shields asunder-though few enough of the enemy had made it across the river with shields intact.

Ser Barristan was once heard to say that the man had no friend but his sword and no life but duty.

[markg171]

Edit double post

[heraldofdragons]

I can't think of many knights right now, but let's see...

Brynden Tully - although he is old he is a fine swordsman and honorable man but not a stupid honorable like Ned. And he's still younger than Barristan, so that's that

Barristan Selmy - badass old gramps who's well known and resprected all over the realm and keeps to his vows

Balon Swann - although we don't know much about him, he seems to be okay. He's not a Duncan or Arthur Dayne, but he'll do

how old is balon swann? he was on my list too but i'm not certain he was a knight at the time of robert's rebellion

[The Great and Mighty Poo]

Balon Swann in my opinion was the only non bad choice

[Bironic]

What choices were "encouraged" by Cersei?

She spoke against Ser Richard Horpe who is with Stannis at the moment. So she had some influence in the appointments.

Barristan Selmy

Blackfish Tully

Richard Horpe

Mandon Moore

I would leave it up to Jaime to join the Night's watch, meet Ilyn Payne's axe, or get back to Tywin Lannister at Casterly Rock. I would not want him around Cersei.

The others I would refill later, when younger knights are available. Is that even possible? leave them vacant?

Balon Swann is in the early twenties during AGOT if I recall correctly.

[markg171]

how old is balon swann? he was on my list too but i'm not certain he was a knight at the time of robert's rebellion

He approved of his sister’s choice of Ser Balon Swann to take the place of the slain Preston Greenfield. The Swanns were Marcher lords, proud, powerful, and cautious. Pleading illness, Lord Gulian Swann had remained in his castle, taking no part in the war, but his eldest son had ridden with Renly and now Stannis, while Balon, the younger, served at King’s Landing. If he’d had a third son, Tyrion suspected he’d be off with Robb Stark. It was not perhaps the most honorable course, but it showed good sense; whoever won the iron Throne, the Swanns intended to survive. In addition to being well born, young Ser Balon was valiant, courtly, and skilled at arms; good with a lance, better with a morningstar, superb with the bow. He would serve with honor and courage.

Balon's too young to have been an option for Robert.

Nor did he ever distinguish himself to be a good knight until recent years, and only won his cloak after keeping a cool head during the KL riot.

[Fat Mac]

Richard Horpe definitely should have gotten a spot.

[Barri_The_Bold]

Nice how many seem to favor the Blackfish :cool4: One of my favorite characters :)

What about knights from Dorne? Anyone good we know from there except for Areo Hotah, who can't be Kingsguard and Gerold Dayne who seems to be ruthless and not KG material? Maybe some Yronwood guy?

Edit: Although it seems questionable if Robert would have trusted a Dornish since they fought on the "wrong" side

[Ser Arthur Hightower]

I fairly sure Blount and Trant have been there the whole 15 years, Arys was after the Greyjoy rebellion, Moore was seemingly somewhat after the rebellion, I have no idea when Preston came into the KG.

Richard Horpe should be there, Arys Oakheart too, Swann may be too young as are the majority of Renly's Rainbow guard.

Trant was from the Stormlands, so may well have been on the Trident, even so Jaime seems to have low regard for him, so he shouldn't be there.

Blount should never have been considered, I don't think anyone has ever said anything good about him.

Jaime should have been banished to the Rock IMO, it's not as if it is precedent for dismissing KG since it is a new dynasty, the Targaryen's are in exile and thus Jaime's vows are voided.

Ultimately I think it should be something along the lines of:

LC Barristan Selmy

-Mandon Moore

-Arys Oakheart

-Richard Horpe

-Lyle Crakehall?

-Brynden Tully?

- errmmm

Well this is difficult, there doesn't seem to be many good fighters in their late twenties-early thirties, we have Balon Swann, Guyard Morrigan, Rolland Storm, Loras Tyrell, Robar Royce, Michael Redfort, Parmen Crane, Emmon Cuy and a few others.

We don't really know many knights in the right age range to be in Robert's Kingsguard at the Start of the series, I don't really know if the Blackfish would be a viable candidate either.

[Roose is Azor Ahai]

Richard Horpe and Brynden Tully come to mind.

[Ser Arthur Hightower]

She spoke against Ser Richard Horpe who is with Stannis at the moment. So she had some influence in the appointments.

Barristan Selmy

Blackfish Tully

Richard Horpe

Mandon Moore

I would leave it up to Jaime to join the Night's watch, meet Ilyn Payne's axe, or get back to Tywin Lannister at Casterly Rock. I would not want him around Cersei.

The others I would refill later, when younger knights are available. Is that even possible? leave them vacant?

Balon Swann is in the early twenties during AGOT if I recall correctly.

It would certainly be possible, if the King says "I don't see anyone good, but there are some promising young squires at the moment, let's wait a few years" then there is no one to stop him.

However you don't really want to do that, you want to project strength by having a full Kingsguard. Plus there is a lot for 7 guys to do, you need at least 2 with the king, at least 1 with the queen, and possibly another with princes/princesses, generally one is supposed to be guarding the gate to the Red Keep, and they need to sleep as well.

Of course you can have all your Kingsguard with you, and put other knights on those duties, however it's better to have KG. Also KG are better for commanding men, for example Aerys dispatches Barristan and Jon Darry to rally Connington's scattered host, the lords and knights would be less willing to follow a household knight than a kingsguard, especially if the house of a lord being commanded is higher in status than whatever house the King's knights come from.

There would definitely be good candidates, you would just likely have to look at third or fourth tier houses.

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

Depends on if certain characters were of age during the rebellion.

Balon Swann, Rolland Storm, Richard Horpe, Mandon Moore, Robar Royce, Silveraxe Fell(if he survived the rebellion), and Guyard Morrigen would've made a fine KG.

[MyLittleFinger]

Richard Horpe and Brynden Tully come to mind.

Thing is, we don't really know squat about Horpe other than he wanted to be in the KG when he was younger. He has apparently turned into a badass, but we don't know what his qualifications were at the time. Heck, maybe Trant was better at the time? He was the Stormlands pick.

A lot of prime candidates we think of now were in their teens at the time or earlier.

[Rhaegar Targaryen's Ghost]

I think this could've been a great opportunity for Robert to appease the major houses. Now we cannot know if these people would have accepted, but the smart thing to do would have been to have

Barristan (stormlands)

Jaime (westerlands)

Oberyn Martell (dorne)

Bryndyn Blackfish Tully (riverlands)

Robett Glover (north)

Victarion Greyjoy (iron islands)

Garth "Greysteel" Hightower (reach)

Each major lord would be proud to have a family member or bannerman's family member as part of the kings guard.

By choosing Jon Arryn from the Vale he filled all the major regions, representing a unified kingdom.

[aryagonnakill#2]

All you people talking about just getting rid of Jaime are missing a golden opportunity, literally, to sell Jaime back to Tywin for a shitload of gold.

I'd replace Jaime, Blount, and Trant with Blackfish, Hound, and when old enough Loras.