Varys or Littlefinger: Who is smarter?

[Caesar Targaryen]

General fan consensus says that they are two of the smartest characters in the series, but who is smarter?

My vote goes to Varys, because he plays his cards closer to his chest and doesn't have lust for anyone that could potentially derail his plans (i.e. Littlefinger and Cat/Sansa).

[TrueOrFalse]

Varys

[Ser Brandon Badwater]

Varys.

[Justin Amey]

It depends really,

Varys grew up on streets of pentos Hustling to make a living going from rags to riches

Littlefinger was raised in Noble houses where he had proper Education, kicked out but still use his Education to get to rags to riches

Varys=Street smarts and ambition

LittleFinger= Book smarts and ambition

[Lord Davos Baratheon]

Varys.

[In A Coat of Gold]

Littlefinger is smarter. Varys is much more savvy.

[Roose is Azor Ahai]

Roose.

[khal drogon]

Littlefinger is a naturally smart guy.He is good in making use of what is available and using the right opportunities.

Varys on the other hand has a grand plan and is manipulating people to fit his plan.

I would say LF is smarter and Varys is a better manipulator.

[eazy]

Varys is more experienced and much more careful, also Varys plays the game for much longer so he knows the rules better. And Varys does not believe his own hype as much as Littlefinger does. So... Varys.

[MyLittleFinger]

LF seems to be the only guy to pull the wool over Varys' eyes, as he mentions briefly to Illyrio "The God's only know what game Littlefinger is playing." I think they are pretty equal in intelligence and savvy. Varys seems to be able to be hands on though, which is an upgrade. Both have been able to play a long game well with twists and improvisation.

[Rhaegar Targaryen's Ghost]

I don't know which one is smarter with regard to intelligence, but the fact that Littlefinger is out for himself while Varys is out for the greater good makes Varys' motives more unpredictable, making him less likely to be found out. So i guess Varys?

[Wmarshal]

Varys, Baelish whole survival relied completely on Tyrion actually believing letting a guy who started a war live and walk because he makes money the crown never sees.

[Arquibus]

I think this is a question that will be answered at some point in the next two books, at least in the practical sense of who wins out. Which of them is simply the most intelligent is probably something we won't have a straight answer to.

[MyLittleFinger]

I don't know which one is smarter with regard to intelligence, but the fact that Littlefinger is out for himself while Varys is out for the greater good makes Varys' motives more unpredictable, making him less likely to be found out. So i guess Varys?

What makes any of his moves out for the "greater good?"

[Garbad]

I think people overstate LF's power and intelligence. What has he actually done? He clumsily provoke a war between openly hostile factions (which thus far hasn't gotten him anything), got a tenuous lordship which he parleyed into marriage and then threw away...and has a scheme to take the north that almost certainly won't work.

[Balerion the one eared cat]

I think Littlefinger - his power and intelligence lies in manipulating people to believe he is more of a threat than he is. But, he has a weakness in Cat/Sansa that Varys does not, and so in the end, I think Varys will be the ultimate winner of the game.

[Facebookless Man]

General opinion seems to be Varys spent twenty years plotting to put someone on the throne because they have a couple drops of Daemon I 's blood somewhere between their whore and bandit genes. It took twenty years because it is based on an elaborate bluff that everyone in KL called immediately. He has also lost all control of how his 20-year scheme unravels at this point. Which does not matter since the plan is doomed to fail anyway, as soon as the Princess That Was Promised comes to claim her birthright.

So there you have it: Varys is a fucking moron.

[Fat Mac]

I think people overstate LF's power and intelligence. What has he actually done? He clumsily provoke a war between openly hostile factions (which thus far hasn't gotten him anything), got a tenuous lordship which he parleyed into marriage and then threw away...and has a scheme to take the north that almost certainly won't work.

You're really underselling LF here.

He wanted revenge on the Starks and Tullys. The Starks for Brandon Stark stealing his love, and the Tullys because Hoster refused to let him around his children after a certain point. So, what did he do? By murdering Jon Arryn, and manipulating Lysa, he got Ned to come south into a vipers nest, bringing Ned directly in contention with the family he despised, the Lannisters. The attempt on Bran, though not part of LF's plan, ended up working in his favor when he basically blamed it on a Lannister. Also, given the suspicious nature of Jon Arryn's death coupled with Stannis retreat to Dragonstone, the incest plot was like a carrot LF was dangling right in front of Ned's face. When Ned discovered everything and it was time for action, LF betrayed him, and most likely was behind his execution. He got the man who eventually got with his love executed. Consider revenge on Starks complete.

Then, with Robb in open rebellion, LF was the main advocate for one of the most powerful alliances in Westeros history, the Tyrell-Lannister alliance. And, since the Riverlands were in open rebellion, LF's prize for forging this alliance was the Lord Paramountship of the Riverlands, ousting the Tully's. He had taken his revenge on the Tullys, and removed them of the status that was lauded over him when he was younger. He also got to marry a Tully himself, slighting Hoster in his grave.

And on top of all of this, he gained a tremendous amount of power, while simultaneously being off most people's radar. Even after all the shit he's pulled, most Lords of Westeros think he's trustworthy, the Lords of the Vale notwithstanding.

[MyLittleFinger]

I think people overstate LF's power and intelligence. What has he actually done? He clumsily provoke a war between openly hostile factions (which thus far hasn't gotten him anything), got a tenuous lordship which he parleyed into marriage and then threw away...and has a scheme to take the north that almost certainly won't work.

They weren't openly hostile until his plan to make them hostile happened...Ned Stark hadn't given a shit about King's Landing since the Greyjoy Rebellion until Jon Arryn was murdered by the "Lannisters." You know...the plan.

[First of the First Men]

No idea who would rank first in an IQ test but Varys has better chances of surviving the whole thing.

LF's methods leave too many loose ends (there is a Kettleblack tortured by the High Septon right now IIRC), he tends to take extreme risks and he is obsessed with Sansa.

That being said, I never really understood the Little Birds thing. So he cuts out their tongues (yikes) but to what end actually? If one of them should be captured the captor would probably know they are informants. The discovery of the missing tongue would quickly lead to the conclusion that they are able to write. At this point they are as great a risk as any other captured informant. Besides, Wex Pyke showed that mutes can tell a lot even if they don't know their letters.

Still, Varys. If Tyrion had decided to have Shagga spontaneously kill LF in ACOK that would have been it. Varys never was in such danger AFAIK.