Lady of the Falls Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I like her most of the time but it seems to me she like to chastise her son, brother when she feels they ain't making the right move. Which imo she's the one who's made the biggest mistakes. 1st of trusting lil' finger when their last encounter she totally dissed him, she had good reason but a diss is a diss. 2nd imprisoning the Imp, Ned and her had a plan to get the evidence against him and take it to the King. She sees the Imp and has no proof but she arrests him. That starts the war and gets the river lands torched. She frees Jamie which screws her son up, makes Lord Karstark kill boys, Rob loses Karstarks after talking Lords head. Also what bothers me is her hatred for Jon when hes always bin a good, caring brother. It's her ego and pride that can't accept him. How different things would of been if she stayed on the down low to figure out what happened to Jon Arryn and Bran. Ned wouldn't have gotten hurt, King may not have run hunting from his problems. Ned may have had more time instead of forcing his hand. Also her boys may be technically alive and WF not put to torch if she didn't stay in Riv.Run w/dad. Her and a small garrison would have bin at WF and possibly stopped it. I'm sure I missed a few more instances. You get my point though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Well we just had a 20something page thread on this same subject locked that got quite nasty. So I suppose it's only natural the thread vultures are circling and searching for new carrion to feast upon and here it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady of the Falls Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 Well we just had a 20something page thread on this same subject locked that got quite nasty. So I suppose it's only natural the thread vultures are circling and searching for new carrion to feast upon and here it is. oh no I didn't realize, i'm re reading books and came to chapter about Rob wanting to legitimize Jon, and my irritation made me want to share it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Ah well, I'll apologize in turn for my snarky reply then. Whatever else you want to say about Catelyn, for better or worse she seems to be one of the most polarizing characters in the series. Anyways, here's the original thread I was referring to: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/123725-your-opinions-on-catelyn/ A lot of this has been argued back and forth by her fans and critics alike there. Honestly despite all her flaws, and she had a lot, I liked Cat as a character, but the thing that just really ruined it for me was the Stoneheart bit. I just wish Martin had left well enough alone there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pikachu101 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I like her most of the time but it seems to me she like to chastise her son, brother when she feels they ain't making the right move. Her son cost them the war, as for Edmure I love him so much because of it but from a military perspective feeding extra mouths instead of saving it for soldiers is a bad move. 1st of trusting lil' finger when their last encounter she totally dissed him, she had good reason but a diss is a diss. The last time she saw LF he was a lovesick teenager, Ned should have warned her not the other way round. 2nd imprisoning the Imp, Ned and her had a plan to get the evidence against him and take it to the King. She sees the Imp and has no proof but she arrests him. I don't see how that caused the Stark's downfall... Besides this is the Middle Ages, Cat didn't need "evidence" Tyrion's a dwarf and LF's a nobleman. They even had this attitude in the Victorian era "you're guilty because you have a deformity which means you're in line with the devil and a nobleman said so" That starts the war and gets the river lands torched. My favourite argument :) I think you mean Ned's arrest and execution started the war. She frees Jamie Dumb move I'll give you that, but it made me love her even more. This is a society that doesn't value their daughters, yet Cat was willing to trade Jaime Lannister for hers. which screws her son up Robb did that all by himself makes Lord Karstark kill boys, Rob loses Karstarks after talking Lords head. No, don't blame Cat for Karstark's cruelty towards two innocent children. Robb should have sent him to the Wall, that way he keeps Karstark men.Also what bothers me is her hatred for Jon when hes always bin a good, caring brother. It's her ego and pride that can't accept him. No it's because he's a threat to her kids. Say something happens to Robb, then what? Bran's 7 and Rickon's a toddler, what will Cat do if the Northern lords declare that they want a strong lord to rule over them during the long winter? Fans already seem to believe that they'll choose Jon to be king over Rickon so Cat's wariness isn't invalid. Ned wouldn't have gotten hurt He'd still tell Cersei King may not have run hunting from his problems. Cersei would still find a way to kill him before Ned can reveal her affair Ned may have had more time instead of forcing his hand. Ned's incredibly naive, he genuinely thought Cersei would take his offer and flee with her children. Also her boys may be technically alive and WF not put to torch if she didn't stay in Riv.Run w/dad. Really? What's she going to do tell a bunch of Iron Born to get out of her castle? Her and a small garrison would have bin at WF and possibly stopped it. Winterfell already had men, Theon still invaded. I like how you're ignoring the fact that it was Cat who told Robb not to send Theon in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady of the Falls Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 Ah well, I'll apologize in turn for my snarky reply then. Whatever else you want to say about Catelyn, for better or worse she seems to be one of the most polarizing characters in the series. Anyways, here's the original thread I was referring to: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/123725-your-opinions-on-catelyn/ A lot of this has been argued back and forth by her fans and critics alike there. Honestly despite all her flaws, and she had a lot, I liked Cat as a character, but the thing that just really ruined it for me was the Stoneheart bit. I just wish Martin had left well enough alone there. Obviously *pointing up* lol I like her and don't but I guess that's what you mean by polarizing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Reaper oOo Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I'm probably the only one who woud have been okay with Robb executing Cat for freeing Jaime. I would have lol'd all the way back to Winterfell. ...which is where she should have stayed. Thats my opinion, and Im sticking to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady of the Falls Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 Her son cost them the war, as for Edmure I love him so much because of it but from a military perspective feeding extra mouths instead of saving it for soldiers is a bad move.The last time she saw LF he was a lovesick teenager, Ned should have warned her not the other way round.I don't see how that caused the Stark's downfall...Besides this is the Middle Ages, Cat didn't need "evidence" Tyrion's a dwarf and LF's a nobleman. They even had this attitude in the Victorian era "you're guilty because you have a deformity which means you're in line with the devil and a nobleman said so"My favourite argument :)I think you mean Ned's arrest and execution started the war.Dumb move I'll give you that, but it made me love her even more. This is a society that doesn't value their daughters, yet Cat was willing to trade Jaime Lannister for hers.Robb did that all by himselfNo, don't blame Cat for Karstark's cruelty towards two innocent children. Robb should have sent him to the Wall, that way he keeps Karstark men.No it's because he's a threat to her kids. Say something happens to Robb, then what?Bran's 7 and Rickon's a toddler, what will Cat do if the Northern lords declare that they want a strong lord to rule over them during the long winter? Fans already seem to believe that they'll choose Jon to be king over Rickon so Cat's wariness isn't invalid.He'd still tell CerseiCersei would still find a way to kill him before Ned can reveal her affairNed's incredibly naive, he genuinely thought Cersei would take his offer and flee with her children.Really? What's she going to do tell a bunch of Iron Born to get out of her castle?Winterfell already had men, Theon still invaded.I like how you're ignoring the fact that it was Cat who told Robb not to send Theon in the first place.Yeah she did have some good advice, but not all was or is and the war started when she took the Imp. Everything else happened after. Rob is the biggest reason for his losing the war, but Cat lost the Karstarks when she freed Jaime. But to eachs own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Obviously *pointing down* lol I like her and don't but I guess that's what you mean by polarizing. Lady Pikachu is one of Cat's most ardent defenders on the one hand and the other you have Lord Reaper wanting her executed. I was mainly refering to the sharp divisions in the fanbase she seems to cause, but here we go agaiiiiin... :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady of the Falls Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 I'm probably the only one who woud have been okay with Robb executing Cat for freeing Jaime.I would have lol'd all the way back to Winterfell....which is where she should have stayed. Thats my opinion, and Im sticking to it.Yup if she just went to WF after telling Ned what happened a lot would be different. I do like her dead and killing Freys, Lannisters, and Boltons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady of the Falls Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 Lady Pikachu is one of Cat's most ardent defenders on the one hand and the other you have Lord Reaper wanting her executed. I was mainly refering to the sharp divisions in the fanbase she seems to cause, but here we go agaiiiiin... :P Cat's one of those characters to love or hate, I go back and forth honestly, i'm wishy washy like that lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lidsa Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 It's very curious to see so many proponents of "Cat should've stayed in Winterfell with her sick child, where she belongs", yet nobody is cross with Ned for leaving his son. How very fifties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 It's very curious to see so many proponents of "Cat should've stayed in Winterfell with her sick child, where she belongs", yet nobody is cross with Ned for leaving his son. How very fifties.Had Catelyn not travelled South, her duties, governing the North in Ned's absence, would have taken her away from her children in any case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lidsa Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Had Catelyn not travelled South, her duties, governing the North in Ned's absence, would have taken her away from her children in any case. Exactly. And if she hadn't helped Robb with the war, people would've said "how could she not help her own son, she abandoned him, what kind of mother is she?" Cat just can't win with some people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Reaper oOo Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Exactly. And if she hadn't helped Robb with the war, people would've said "how could she not help her own son, she abandoned him, what kind of mother is she?" Cat just can't win with some people.I honestly think no one would say that ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faydra Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Why is it taboo to dislike Catelyn? That's the vibe I get from some people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Reaper oOo Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Why is it taboo to dislike Catelyn? That's the vibe I get from some people.oh yeah, thats definitely the vibe around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lidsa Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I honestly think no one would say that ever. Well, I didn't think people would say that about Catelyn and Bran, seeing as he was well protected and cared for and far, far away from any action. But there it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowCat Rivers Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Had Catelyn not travelled South, her duties, governing the North in Ned's absence, would have taken her away from her children in any case. Mothers are supposed to be superhero multitasking mashines that do everything and never break, didn't you know? The OP's characterization of Catelyn's attitude as self-rightous is completely off, IMO. Because: a.) When she critisizes Robb (or Edmure) she does it using logical and grounded arguments. Most of the time she's also objectively right. b.) When she just lashes out, she's the first one to feel bad about it and criticize herself for doing it. Hardly a habit of a self-rightous personality and a very rare trait judging by the POVs we have. Why is it taboo to dislike Catelyn? That's the vibe I get from some people. Dislike her as much as you like, I don't care. My only "requirement", if I may have one, is to try and keep to the text when criticizing her decisions and actions. (And of course, expect people to disagree with arguments like "her place is at home".) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Reaper oOo Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Well, I didn't think people would say that about Catelyn and Bran, seeing as he was well protected and cared for and far, far away from any action. But there it is.You didn't think people wouldn't like her leaving her young comatose son? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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