R+L=J v.131

[BearQueen87]

Is that supposed to be the pink letter?

More likely it's Stannis telling Jon he could be lord of WF if he agrees to XYZ terms

[Ser Creighton]

Next time I read Jon's final chapter in Dance, I'll play Heroes as bg music :lol:

Wait, what? No, no that's bad, think about it as Jon gets stabbed by Bowen Heroes is playing? No they don't get to have that anthem.

Anyway if you are paying really good attention during the trailer, there appears to be a major clue. I am going to explain it on Susans thread. You will get a better view of the trailer on the Facebook page. Because something is said and something shown while it is being said. There is layered context to it and it is very subtle but clearly there.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Wait, what? No, no that's bad, think about it as Jon gets stabbed by Bowen Heroes is playing? No they don't get to have that anthem.

Anyway if you are paying really good attention during the trailer, there appears to be a major clue. I am going to explain it on Susans thread. You will get a better view of the trailer on the Facebook page. Because something is said and something shown while it is being said. There is layered context to it and it is very subtle but clearly there.

Ser, I don't have a FB.

[Alia of the knife]

What thread was this supposed to be on? I'd like to chime in. :)

It was " Ijust don't understand the Tyrells."

(I don' t have the direct link because I deleted too quickly) .

[Alia of the knife]

Wait, what? No, no that's bad, think about it as Jon gets stabbed by Bowen Heroes is playing? No they don't get to have that anthem.

Anyway if you are paying really good attention during the trailer, there appears to be a major clue. I am going to explain it on Susans thread. You will get a better view of the trailer on the Facebook page. Because something is said and something shown while it is being said. There is layered context to it and it is very subtle but clearly there.

Got It.

[Ser Creighton]

Got It.

Finally posted it on Susans threads, I am having all kinds of problems with this site.

Anyway there may be a very intresting bit of foreshadowing when Dany says "I am not going to stop the wheel, I am going to break it." Take a look at what is being shown.

Ser, I don't have a FB.

You don't have a FB account or no access to FB? Cause you don't need an account. If you can't see the trailer on FB, there is a slightly less clear version floating around, pay attention to the Wildling when Dany says that, go full screen.

[Jon Weirgaryen]

More likely it's Stannis telling Jon he could be lord of WF if he agrees to XYZ terms

Or maybe he is reading to Stannis the part where it says Stannis is dead? ;-)

[King Tyrion XX]

I am going to give a quick list of information that suggests that Jon is critical to the endgame. I am sure there are more I am not thinking of off the top of my head.

The OP to this thread lays out why most people think Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. We know that there is a three-headed dragon prophesy, and part of the prophesy is that the Prince that was Promised has a song--A Song of Ice and Fire. As the son of R&L, Jon is a Son(g) of Ice (Lyanna) and Fire (Rhaegar), personified. I think the series makes clear that TPTWP is critical to winning the Battle for the Dawn 2.0. So if Jon is TPTWP, he is part of the endgame, and his parentage makes it quite likely he is TPTWP (or at a minimum, one of the three heads of the dragon).

Also, one of the biggest stated mysteries in the book is who is Jon's mother? What is the point of the mystery if the answer is only disclosed after Jon is dead? And GRRM has stated that Jon will find out his parentage. Dead people cannot find out anything.

Others in this thread have pointed out that if you read the language of the text closely, the "death" of Jon is not written like the other parts of the story in which a real death occurred. I cannot remember all the details, but basically, we never really see him die, and he appears to be watching the action at the end (possibly from within Ghost's body).

Without Jon is the North, who is left as a major character in the North? Jon really is the focus of the action in the North. The Others are coming from the other side of the Wall. If Jon is really dead, how can this action really carry forward?

Again, I am sure that is more evidence. But Jon is one of the big three characters--and arguably the biggest character in the book. He makes it to the end (or at least to very near the end).

Rhaegar says about Aegon that his is the Song of Ice and Fire, not Jon.

[Jon Weirgaryen]

LOL. Typical response....read 50,000 posts of circle jerking cuz that's where all the proof is. Even though those pages are full of you posters pointing to your previous circle jerking threads as evidence without actually providing evidence.

You are being very offensive, not for the first time, so you seem to have justly got a Troll's worth of a response there. I am done with you, too. Good riddance, or in the words of the early internet: plonk.

Oh, I see, I wanted to point out the nice answer your next commentary is on:

Rhaegar says about Aegon that his is the Song of Ice and Fire, not Jon.

Rhaegar thought so, then, at that time. Rhaegar also thought he himself would be changing the known world after his return from the Trident.

[sj4iy]

You are being very offensive, not for the first time, so you seem to have justly got a Troll's worth of a response there. I am done with you, too. Good riddance, or in the words of the early internet: plonk.

Oh, I see, I wanted to point out the nice answer your next commentary is on:

Rhaegar thought so, then, at that time. Rhaegar also thought he himself would be changing the known world after his return from the Trident.

I've had that guy on ignore for a long time.

[Ellfoy]

Wait, what? No, no that's bad, think about it as Jon gets stabbed by Bowen Heroes is playing? No they don't get to have that anthem.

Anyway if you are paying really good attention during the trailer, there appears to be a major clue. I am going to explain it on Susans thread. You will get a better view of the trailer on the Facebook page. Because something is said and something shown while it is being said. There is layered context to it and it is very subtle but clearly there.

What susans thread ? Do you have a link ?

[Jon Weirgaryen]

What susans thread ? Do you have a link ?

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/109935-book-spoilers-rlj-and-other-theories-on-hbo-v2/page-15

lets discuss here

[Ygrain]

I've had that guy on ignore for a long time.

Ditto.

[Alia of the knife]

Finally posted it on Susans threads, I am having all kinds of problems with this site.

Anyway there may be a very intresting bit of foreshadowing when Dany says "I am not going to stop the wheel, I am going to break it." Take a look at what is being shown.

You don't have a FB account or no access to FB? Cause you don't need an account. If you can't see the trailer on FB, there is a slightly less clear version floating around, pay attention to the Wildling when Dany says that, go full screen.

Okay, thanks!

[Alia of the knife]

Going back to my boo boo, I looked up the Prince Daeron who dumped Olenna, which led me back to the rest of Aerys children, which there was a Shaena, Daeron, Aegon, and Jahaerys, before Viserys and Dany.

Rhaegar named his own son Aegon too. Its always been the speculation that he named his children after the first Aegon, even though the Rhaenys part was wrong as Rhaenys was the youngest sister, not the oldest.

I wonder if Jons own Targaryen name might be found amongst Rhaegars deceased brothers?

Daeron or Jahaerys?

[BearQueen87]

Going back to my boo boo, I looked up the Prince Daeron who dumped Olenna, which led me back to the rest of Aerys children, which there was a Shaena, Daeron, Aegon, and Jahaerys, before Viserys and Dany.

Rhaegar named his own son Aegon too. Its always been the speculation that he named his children after the first Aegon, even though the Rhaenys part was wrong as Rhaenys was the youngest sister, not the oldest.

I wonder if Jons own Targaryen name might be found amongst Rhaegars deceased brothers?

Daeron or Jahaerys?

The Young Dragon was one of Jon's heroes, or so we are told in AGOT. Could be clever foreshadowing, though I still like the idea of RL intending him to be Aemon.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Going back to my boo boo, I looked up the Prince Daeron who dumped Olenna, which led me back to the rest of Aerys children, which there was a Shaena, Daeron, Aegon, and Jahaerys, before Viserys and Dany.

Rhaegar named his own son Aegon too. Its always been the speculation that he named his children after the first Aegon, even though the Rhaenys part was wrong as Rhaenys was the youngest sister, not the oldest.

I wonder if Jons own Targaryen name might be found amongst Rhaegars deceased brothers?

Daeron or Jahaerys?

Aerys seems to have named Rhaegar's siblings for his deceased family.

Shaena for his mother, Shaera (and as the name is slightly different, Shaera might still have been alive at this point)

Daeron came next, for Aerys' uncle, who died the first of Aegon V's sons

Then Prince Aegon, named for Aegon V, who died a few years after his youngest son

Then Jaehaerys, named for Aerys' own father, who died the last of those who lived during Aerys' lifetime.

Rhaegar hinself could have been named for Rhaella, or Rhaelle.

If Rhaegar named his son for his deceased brother, then why not after the eldest (Daeron), and why not name Rhaenys after Shaena?

[Alia of the knife]

Aerys seems to have named Rhaegar's siblings for his deceased family.

Shaena for his mother, Shaera (and as the name is slightly different, Shaera might still have been alive at this point)

Daeron came next, for Aerys' uncle, who died the first of Aegon V's sons

Then Prince Aegon, named for Aegon V, who died a few years after his youngest son

Then Jaehaerys, named for Aerys' own father, who died the last of those who lived during Aerys' lifetime.

Rhaegar hinself could have been named for Rhaella, or Rhaelle.

If Rhaegar named his son for his deceased brother, then why not after the eldest (Daeron), and why not name Rhaenys after Shaena?

I don't know, but if Jon does have his own name, I would think a good place to start for a second born prince might be one of Rhaegars siblings.

Rhaegar said Aegon was a good name for a king. It makes me wonder why Rhaegar wasn't given the name Aegon?

(However, we know Rhaegar was named for GRRM's parents, RAymond and MarGARet). :)

Or at least that is the urban legend.

[Alia of the knife]

The Young Dragon was one of Jon's heroes, or so we are told in AGOT. Could be clever foreshadowing, though I still like the idea of RL intending him to be Aemon.

I thought of that too.

[Winterfell's Revenge]

Season five looks expensive. Due to the shitty quality of the leaked version when I saw someone burning on a pyre in the snow I allowed myself to think it might be Jon for a second. Then I remembered fake Mance.

Edit: Varys "You could help someone else climb those steps" [to the Iron Throne] then it cuts to Jon.

That's a nice catch. I hadn't noticed that.