UnmaskedLurker Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 It could be that such a POV will be early in Winds... But I agree that Jon does not need to be dead to warg Ghost, or any other animal, should he ever be practised enough for that. "man, then wolf, then man again" could indeed be Melisandre seeing Jon warging.. Does she know he's a warg..? I thought so... Mel rarely knows what she is really looking at. I think her visions are "real" but she pretty much always fails to interpret them correctly or really even understand them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceFire125 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Pretty much this quote. I think this just straight up proves that Jon is not dead and inside Ghost Puppy, at least for the moment. A proper introduction for R+L=J fans of Ghost puppy. ^_^ http://i.imgur.com/TVSeVZC.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 A proper introduction for R+L=J fans of Ghost puppy. ^_^ http://i.imgur.com/TVSeVZC.jpg D'aaawwwwwwwww. He's so fluffy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 A proper introduction for R+L=J fans of Ghost puppy. ^_^ http://i.imgur.com/TVSeVZC.jpg ...he had one job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aDanceWithFlagons Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I don't really get the argument you are making. You are trying to say that he HAS to be dead because he's warging Ghost.I'm saying that argument is BS as we have seen him warg Ghost while unconscious several times already. He doesn't HAVE to be trained to do it. He just 'does it'. It's a self defense measure, obviously. Bran, Jon and Arya have warged without training when they were in distress. There's absolutely no difference here.Thats not what I posted here or in the last thread. I said what's the big deal if Jon skinchanges Ghost while (and if) he is unconcious. We already know it happens in his sleep. Nothing new there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 Thats not what I posted here or in the last thread. I said what's the big deal if Jon skinchanges Ghost while (and if) he is unconcious. We already know it happens in his sleep. Nothing new there. But why is it a big deal if he's already doing it when he's asleep (just like Bran)--a time period when he is "unconscious" in the sense that he is not actively seeking to warg just like he would be now in a coma. And I think he already has skinchanged Ghost, it's the last thing he did in his final POV chapter. He said Ghost and POOFed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Thats not what I posted here or in the last thread. I said what's the big deal if Jon skinchanges Ghost while (and if) he is unconcious. We already know it happens in his sleep. Nothing new there. The big deal is that Jon needs to complete that dream in the crypts. He always wakes up from terror befrore the dream ends but if he falls in a coma, there is no waking up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Wow, two pages of shiny already... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Cold Fingers Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 So question then...will we have a Melisandre POV in TWoW first? Or a Jon POV with a cryptic chapter title? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 So question then...will we have a Melisandre POV in TWoW first? Or a Jon POV with a cryptic chapter title? We'll have a Jon chapter first. And people will freak out until they realise it's the wrong Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 So question then...will we have a Melisandre POV in TWoW first? Or a Jon POV with a cryptic chapter title? I think we will first get a Mel POV in which Jon’s body will be put into an ice cell. We also will learn why Mel was deeply troubled after her POV in ADwD. Mel will decide to burn Jon before he dies in order to not waste his kingsblood. At the end of her POV, she will finally get her chance to approach the ice cells after three days but she will find the cells empty. Then we will have Jon/Ghost POV and see that it was Wun Wun and Val who secretly smuggled Jon’s body and they are taking him into the Haunted Forest (probably Whitetree). They will pass North from Snowgate (lol) and might get some help from Morna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Thats not what I posted here or in the last thread. I said what's the big deal if Jon skinchanges Ghost while (and if) he is unconcious. We already know it happens in his sleep. Nothing new there. What's the big deal if he does it while he's dead? We know he could. It's been demonstrated before. Basically, there's no reason Jon couldn't be alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceFire125 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Then we will have Jon/Ghost POV and see that it was Wun Wun and Val who secretly smuggled Jon’s body and they are taking him into the Haunted Forest (probably Whitetree). They will pass North from Snowgate (lol) and might get some help from Morna. “The horse may be half-blind, but I am not,” said Val. “I know where I must go.” “My lady, you do not have to do this. The risk—” “—is mine, Lord Snow. And I am no southron lady but a woman of the free folk. I know the forest better than all your black-cloaked rangers. It holds no ghosts for me.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingmonkey Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Just a passing thought, don't hate me. What would happen if a skingchanger jumped into an animal host at the point of death -- and was then raised as a wight? Some wights seem to be basic zombies, some like Coldhands, seem to have free will and intact personalities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 Just a passing thought, don't hate me. What would happen if a skingchanger jumped into an animal host at the point of death -- and was then raised as a wight?Some wights seem to be basic zombies, some like Coldhands, seem to have free will and intact personalities. Could the skinchanger move...? I am rather uncertain about a lot of that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingmonkey Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Could the skinchanger move...? I am rather uncertain about a lot of that I'm not certain whether a skinchanger can jump from one host to another, if that's what you mean. I think not. The question is, if the Skingchanger's body is brought back to life as a wight after the Skinchanger has hopped into an animal, would they then be able to return to the body as they would be able to if their body was still alive? Depends on what wights really are, I guess. Or rather whether GRRM wants it to be possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I know this is fake as hell, but still creepy in an "exorcism" sort if way and what I would expect in messy skinwalking.https://lintvkrqe.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/recent-nm-skinwalker-photo-ignites-fear.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addicted to snow Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I'm not certain whether a skinchanger can jump from one host to another? I'm not certain either... I know that Varamyr could see through the eyes of all his wolves simultaneously... I would assume that a powerful Warg like Varamyr probably could jump from host to host... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingmonkey Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Just extending my thoughts a little: Coldhands is an anomalous figure. He certainly died and now appears to be a wight, but he isn't like other wights. Normally they have a functional body, senses, and some kind of memory, but none of the original's personality. How did Coldhands get to retain his personality? When a skinchanger dies, they can jump to their host animal and live a second life. They don't as far as I know have the ability to jump hosts at that stage -- perhaps skinchanging can only be done from your own body? They can't jump back to their own bodies, because their own bodies are dead. Their muscles don't work, their senses don't work. That would no longer be true if their body had become a wight -- essentially the body reanimated without the original personality. In that case, what would stop a skinchanger returning to their bodies, and retaking control? Thus a possible explanation for the anomalous Coldhands is he might have been a skinchanger who died, was wighted (like being knighted only colder) and returned to his body. Sooo. Just suppose, for the sake of argument, that the same thing happens to Jon. Jon, as we all know, is half-Targ. That would make him an ice dragon, right? Interesting, we've been keeping our eyes out for one of those. What do you get if you have a Targwight? Ice and fire embodied, a bridge between the two, impossible without a mixing of the fire blood of Valyria with the warg blood of the First Men. Also you get a way for Jon to see the Heart of Winter. Crackpot maybe, but a pot that's cracked in an interesting way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addicted to snow Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I don't really get the argument you are making. You are trying to say that he HAS to be dead because he's warging Ghost.I'm saying that argument is BS as we have seen him warg Ghost while unconscious several times already. He doesn't HAVE to be trained to do it. He just 'does it'. It's a self defense measure, obviously. Bran, Jon and Arya have warged without training when they were in distress. There's absolutely no difference here.Jon is not Warged into Ghost... One's 2nd life & skinchanging/warging have different mechanics... They are not one & the same... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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