I Don't Understand the Tyrells

[pride of the 7 kingdoms]

We know that the Reach is the strongest region of the Westeros. It is the most populous region, it is the second biggest after North and second richest after Lannisters. They have many important families besides Tyrells. Hightowers, Redwynes, Tarrlys, Rowans and many important other families. They have the most men power by far. THEY HAVE MEN EQUAL TO STARKS AND LANNISTERS COMBINED.

However, I found them too passive in the story. Before AGOT they don't have any important marriages, any council members, any kingsguards... They don't have much importance. In AGOT they again seem very passive. Only after ACOK and ASOS they have some power but still they have much less influence then Starks and Lannisters, despite the fact that they are the family which decided the outcome of the war. Only in AFFC they become active when Tywin, Robb, Joffrey are dead and LF, Varys and Stannis left the KL. In AFFC only opponent they have is Cersei. They let her to do anything although she has little power. Unless High Sparrow arrested her, she would be ruling the throne.

In short I'm trying to say although they have many advantages Tyrells doesn't seem to be doing much in the series.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

They've got one major disadvantage though: No authority. Upjumped stewards, no more. All those important families have their own ideas, and they barely tolerate the Tyrells interfering in them.

[Red Typer of Dorne]

We know that the Reach is the strongest region of the Westeros. It is the most populous region, it is the second biggest after North and second richest after Lannisters. They have many important families besides Tyrells. Hightowers, Redwynes, Tarrlys, Rowans and many important other families. They have the most men power by far. THEY HAVE MEN EQUAL TO STARKS AND LANNISTERS COMBINED.

However, I found them too passive in the story. Before AGOT they don't have any important marriages, any council members, any kingsguards... They don't have much importance. In AGOT they again seem very passive. Only after ACOK and ASOS they have some power but still they have much less influence then Starks and Lannisters, despite the fact that they are the family which decided the outcome of the war. Only in AFFC they become active when Tywin, Robb, Joffrey are dead and LF, Varys and Stannis left the KL. In AFFC only opponent they have is Cersei. They let her to do anything although she has little power. Unless High Sparrow arrested her, she would be ruling the throne.

In short I'm trying to say although they have many advantages Tyrells doesn't seem to be doing much in the series.

I think the Tyrells are playing a long term game, they are a relatively new power having been made lord paramount only 300 years(ish) ago. The freys are still loked down on and they've been around for thousands

[DireWolfSpirit]

I'm curious to find out whose bed Margery's going to hop in next.

Will this heffer ever run out of King poles to chase?

[Lord Lannister]

A lot of that falls on Mace Tyrell. He's rather passive when it comes to advancing his cause even if he does have ambition. Though he also always keeps his options open. Look at the siege at Storm's End. He rallied his forces to King Aerys immediately and defending his king, but his contribution to the war was just besieging a castle with a fraction of his men. Assaulting it would've cost men, money and material so that wasn't going to happen. When Robert won, he immediately lowered his flags and went home scot free. So even if he sat down at the table and played a hand he hardly went all in.

I would imagine they had little influence outside of the Reach during Robert's reign precisely because they did back the Targaryens, even if halfheartedly. When the War of the Five Kings broke out, which they didn't do anything to instigate Mace did become a bit more bold by arranging the marriage contract with Renly and Margaery. Though as soon as that fell through, he immediately jumped back over to the Lannisters with the marriage with Joffrey. They fought at the Blackwater and only when combined with Tywin's forces did they engage in open battle then. So it wasn't much of a risk to his forces. After that his daughter was king, he was on the small council and he enjoyed much influence.

Even still, his forces really didn't actively participate in the war until Cersei all but maneuvered him into. So Mace does a repeat of the siege of Storm's End, while Loras being more hot headed apparently assaults Dragonstone directly and loses a lot of men. We're not sure what happened there exactly so I'll leave that alone. Mace keeps participating in the war while not actually fully committing himself, though it looks like the GC's going to break up his besieging force. Still at little cost his daughter is Queen and he's Hand. He may well end up being Regent if he plays his cards right and gets Tommen to stamp a piece of paper before Cersei can conclude her trial.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

The Tyrells were active in aGoT, we just didn't see it. We knew that Renly was trying to use Margaery as a "Lyanna" for Robert to bed her and marry her after he put Cersei aside. I am sure this was being done with the consent of Mace. After Robert died, they got that one opportunity gone. Lucky for them, Renly was ready to start a war.

[Daena the Defiant]

I'm curious to find out whose bed Margery's going to hop in next.

Will this heffer ever run out of King poles to chase?

You realize she's just doing what's she's told, right?

[Lord Lannister]

You realize she's just doing what's she's told, right?

I dunno, Renly died, Joffrey died, if Tommen dies, you'd be hard pressed to find someone to risk marrying her. We could start calling her the Widow Queen.

[Sweetgirl205]

Not sure what game the Tyrrell's are playing, but they need to move fast. Winter is coming. Roses die in winter.

If Marjory is found guilty at her trial, as I expect she will be, the Tyrrell's will start another war to save her.

[Daena the Defiant]

I dunno, Renly died, Joffrey died, if Tommen dies, you'd be hard pressed to find someone to risk marrying her. We could start calling her the Widow Queen.

Yes, but that has nothing to do with her having any real agency in whom she is told to marry by her family overlords. I'm not sure why gets to called a heifer for that either, which was also in the post I was responding to.

And it's also very clear that she never slept in Joffrey's bed, and a fair bet she also didn't consummate her marriage to Renly. So, I am unclear why she is being accused of bed-hopping.

[Lord Lannister]

And it's also very clear that she never slept in Joffrey's bed, and a fair bet she also didn't consummate her marriage to Renly. So, I am unclear why she is being accused of bed-hopping.

Well I'm not going to answer to that since it was someone else who made that accusation. All I'm mentioning is that if she marries again the groom would have a right to be worried about his longevity considering her history.

[The North]

I agree Mace isn't the sharpest or bravest tool in the shed, but notice the Tyrells and Highgarden in general have successfully infiltrated the royal court the way the Lannisters did under King Robert.

[The Mountain That Flies]

The Tyrells were active in aGoT, we just didn't see it. We knew that Renly was trying to use Margaery as a "Lyanna" for Robert to bed her and marry her after he put Cersei aside. I am sure this was being done with the consent of Mace. After Robert died, they got that one opportunity gone. Lucky for them, Renly was ready to start a war.

Precisely. They played a softer game at first than, say, the Lannisters, and piked up their efforts progressively as things kept escalating. They're cautious, which makes sense when you consider they don't need to risk as much and;

They've got one major disadvantage though: No authority. Upjumped stewards, no more. All those important families have their own ideas, and they barely tolerate the Tyrells interfering in them.

This. Attitude makes a big difference when you're playing the game.

[HexMachina]

They've gained an awful lot through their "passivity" at relatively little cost. Why should they expend the life of their people when their method so far has worked so well for them?

Also, I wouldn't consider then passive, I have perhaps used the wrong word. They have acted, but much more subtly than others have.

[Frey Pie]

The only answer seems to be that they have a lack of authority. Otherwise once Renly was lost why didn't they just declare independence? For the goodness of the realm? Doubt it. They could easily have become King's, allied with Robb and broke the Iron throne/take it themselves

[pride of the 7 kingdoms]

I agree Mace isn't the sharpest or bravest tool in the shed, but notice the Tyrells and Highgarden in general have successfully infiltrated the royal court the way the Lannisters did under King Robert.

When did they do that?

Otherwise once Renly was lost why didn't they just declare independence? For the goodness of the realm? Doubt it. They could easily have become King's, allied with Robb and broke the Iron throne/take it themselves

Yes I'm wondering this.

[nastydream]

The Tyrells were active in aGoT, we just didn't see it. We knew that Renly was trying to use Margaery as a "Lyanna" for Robert to bed her and marry her after he put Cersei aside. I am sure this was being done with the consent of Mace. After Robert died, they got that one opportunity gone. Lucky for them, Renly was ready to start a war.

I apparently missed that or forgot about it o_O

[239JMFL34109]

even if the reach does have the most people. We have seen the many in the 7 kingdom have built in ways to fight against that. the north is impossible to charge up invade by land and a difficult sea landing could be disastrous. Even if you did land in the north it sounds about is great as invading russia in winter. the west has less people but they also have mountains to help defend the west so having more men is not much of advantage. dorne and the vale are not going to be yours just because you have more men with natural defenses and great tactics. the reach is a lot like the riverlands you cannot ignore them but the land is not easily defened they also lack an authority or alliance to get help from anyone other than renly.

now they are using lannister craziness to take over the positions around tommen

[TheSovereignGrave]

The only answer seems to be that they have a lack of authority. Otherwise once Renly was lost why didn't they just declare independence? For the goodness of the realm? Doubt it. They could easily have become King's, allied with Robb and broke the Iron throne/take it themselves

They couldn't easily declare themselves Kings; I find it difficult to believe that most of the noble Houses of the Reach would support putting a Tyrell on an independent throne of the Reach. The Starks were Kings in the North and the Greyjoys were once Kings of the Iron Isles so they had support, but during the reign of the Gardeners the Tyrells were nothing but Stewards. There was never a period in history that a Tyrell sat upon a throne.

[239JMFL34109]

They couldn't easily declare themselves Kings; I find it difficult to believe that most of the noble Houses of the Reach would support putting a Tyrell on an independent throne of the Reach. The Starks were Kings in the North and the Greyjoys were once Kings of the Iron Isles so they had support, but during the reign of the Gardeners the Tyrells were nothing but Stewards. There was never a period in history that a Tyrell sat upon a throne.

They are descendants of a king too so are many others which is a problem but it's the same for the greyjoy they claim to be the blood of the grey king but the greyiron's and the good brothers were also kings at one time and even more of them were kings in their history then the greyjoys. the problem to me still is the reach is really hard to defend even with all those men and cannot really attack anyone with impunity.