I Don't Understand the Tyrells

[Griffin's Roost]

I thought the answer was pretty simple. they don't have power because they didn't help Robert take the throne.

why would Robert give high positions to the people that were his biggest adversaries. I guess you can say the same thing to why the Martells and Greyjoys aren't holding any high positions.

its only when Robert dies that we start to hear more about them.

also if your going to answer back, why don't they use their power to kind of demand a place in small counsel? I think its a fair question and maybe they did but Robert shut them down. Robert is forgiving but he isn't stupid. I don't think he's going to let an already incredibly powerful house have more power. at least that why I think

[marsyao]

However, I found them too passive in the story. Before AGOT they don't have any important marriages, any council members, any kingsguards... They don't have much importance. In AGOT they again seem very passive. Only after ACOK and ASOS they have some power but still they have much less influence then Starks and Lannisters, despite the fact that they are the family which decided the outcome of the war. Only in AFFC they become active when Tywin, Robb, Joffrey are dead and LF, Varys and Stannis left the KL. In AFFC only opponent they have is Cersei. They let her to do anything although she has little power. Unless High Sparrow arrested her, she would be ruling the throne.

In short I'm trying to say although they have many advantages Tyrells doesn't seem to be doing much in the series.

Because Tyrells are too low born, merely 300 hundred years ago they were nothing but a glorified serverant, Comparing to other Houses in the reach, Tyrells has least claim to the inheritance of House Gardner, but Aegon knew the reach was such a rich place, if it was under a leadship of a powerful house, they would be potentially the biggest threat to the thrones, so it is exactly reason why Aegon gave Tyrells the title of the Lord of Highgarden,Warden of the South and Lord Paramount of the Mander. Think of it, this was such a clever move, Tyrells knew their claim to the region is weak, and other powerful noble House saw them nothing but upstart, so in order to keeping their position, they would have no choice but keep loyal to the throne and do king's bid in the region, on the other hand, King would know for sure, the Reach is in reliable hands: with back by Kings, Tyrells could keep other Reach house in the lines, but Tyrells dared not make a move agaisn thrones, because other Reach house looked down them and would overthrow them and take their place if have the chance. This was a move of a genius.

And this also explains why Tyrells stucked with Targaryen till the very end, and why later they were so desperately to marry their daughter to King so that they could move into the center of the power and improve the prestige of their House

[Good Guy Garlan]

I thought the answer was pretty simple. they don't have power because they didn't help Robert take the throne.

why would Robert give high positions to the people that were his biggest adversaries. I guess you can say the same thing to why the Martells and Greyjoys aren't holding any high positions.

its only when Robert dies that we start to hear more about them.

also if your going to answer back, why don't they use their power to kind of demand a place in small counsel? I think its a fair question and maybe they did but Robert shut them down. Robert is forgiving but he isn't stupid. I don't think he's going to let an already incredibly powerful house have more power. at least that why I think

This

But something else: they were already on their way to Robert's court back in aGoT. Loras was already there, cozying up to the Lord of Storm's End and the Master of Laws, and there was even a plot in motion to make Margaery Robert's Queen

I think that's the way the Tyrells roll most of the time. They ease their way slowly and subtly into positions of power, not all at once. Look at their attempts to get more Tyrell plants (har har) in the Small Council

[kimim]

An animal can rip a rose bush up from the root and sustain only the lightest of cuts.

Who is in a position to rip the rose bush, though? The Vale could, but why would they? Dorne is intact, but not strong enough to take them down, and they wouldn't even try, under Doran.

I think Tyrells will make an alliance with an Eastern force--Aegon, maybe Dany. THEN they go down. I don't think Westeros, as it is, can take them down.

[marsyao]

there was even a plot in motion to make Margaery Robert's Queen

That was not possible, Margaery was born in 283, Robert married Cersei in either 283 or 284

[Good Guy Garlan]

That was not possible, Margaery was born in 283, Robert married Cersei in either 283 or 284

I'm talking about aGoT. Renly and Loras are plotting to bring Margaery to court to make Robert fall in love with her and dump Cersei

[marsyao]

I'm talking about aGoT. Renly and Loras are plotting to bring Margaery to court to make Robert fall in love with her and dump Cersei

Do not see how that could be possible, dump a Queen is no small matter, it will lead to war for sure, it was just some ridiculous fancy thoughts of two young silly boys

[Lee-Sensei]

@Merengues 1) You're mistaken. The Tullys were never Kings. The Arryns were. The Tullys came to powere at the same time as the Tyrells. How are they quitters?

2) The Reynes and Tarbecks rebelled against the Lannisters. The Freys do whatever they want and 3 Houses rebelled against the Tullys. The Graftons rebelled against the Arryns. 3 Houses rebelled against the Baratheons. The Boltons have usurped the Starks and are working with the Dustins and Ryswells to keep it that way.

3) :P

4) That's a lot of potential betrayals. However, the Vale hasn't joined LF in rebellion, the Stormlands are still loyal, and Stannis doesn't have the North. The IB were in rebellion when the Lannisters were in power too, BTW.

5) No, because the Tyrells didn't do anything wrong and are related to the Redwynes and Hightowers. Their most powerful bannermen are bound to them by blood.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Do not see how that could be possible, dump a Queen is no small matter, it will lead to war for sure, it was just some ridiculous fancy thoughts of two young silly boys

...who knew Robert very well. He was already commenting on how Margaery was a beautiful maiden and he hadn't even seen her. They wanted Robert to be obsessed by her as he was about Lyanna (that's why Renly asked Ned if Margaery looked like her). That's the card they were trying to play.

[Frances Bean Corbray]

Do not see how that could be possible, dump a Queen is no small matter, it will lead to war for sure, it was just some ridiculous fancy thoughts of two young silly boys

"A man who has the Lannisters for enemies would do well to make the Tyrells his friends." -- Littlefinger.

Oh there is no doubt it's an irrevocable Fuck You to Tywin Lannister and a de facto declaration of civil war when it disinherits the (believed) royal children.

But it very much can be done if one is willing and able to fight. And when is Robert more alive than when he's at war? And oh, look who has a big-ass army ready to go on his behalf. That Robert will very quickly need if he's led down this path. Yeah it's a civil war, but one they're quite sure they'll win.

And if you need a "cause" for annulment or divorce... well, turns out there's a very good one just waiting for a whistleblower to make it public.

[Nic.]

Always thought they were passive because they had no one in position of power or any history of authority they could attach themselves to. None of the other houses would recognize their claims in all likelihood and it doesn't help either that they were on the wrong side of Robert's rebellion.

[Whitering]

Maybe the Manderlys will end up with High Garden, that would be poetic.

[Lee-Sensei]

^You think they should get Highgarden?

[Bright Blue Eyes]

^You think they should get Highgarden?

I doubt they want it. But a lot of Houses in the Reach want it.

[Lee-Sensei]

^I agree. I think they're happy in the North and are loyal to the Starks. I doubt they even consider themselves northerners at this point. They've been there for almost 1,000 years. What Houses want to take Highgarden from them though? Isn't it just the Florents right now?

[Whitering]

^I agree. I think they're happy in the North and are loyal to the Starks. I doubt they even consider themselves northerners at this point. They've been there for almost 1,000 years. What Houses want to take Highgarden from them though? Isn't it just the Florents right now?

I am presuming the North will become a wasteland of dead bodies, destroyed land, humanity will be generally pushed South, but that might be the Lord of the Rings fan talking. The Manderlys were pushed out of the Reach because they were becoming too powerful.

[Lee-Sensei]

^Didn't they get kicked out of the Reach for trying to overthrow their liegelords? Considering what happened to the Reynes, Tarbecks and Greystarks they got off lucky.

[VVSINGOFTHECROSS]

I think it's twofold.

1. Yes, they were never kings and as such would have a hard time drumming up support for their legitimacy if they tried to take the throne. There are houses in the Reach that resent them for simply being the lords paramount because they're just stewards. Imagine the uproar if they tried to establish themselves as the royal family in their own right.

2. This, more than the first: They're risk-averse. They apparently sat out the Field of Fire ("We'll stay behind and guard Highgarden"?), and pretty much immediately folded to Aegon. Mace took probably the easiest assignment in the entire Rebellion, sitting at Storm's End waiting for Stannis to starve. They backed Renly when they thought for sure he was the safe bet, and after him, the Lannisters became the safe bet. If they can keep their money and extend their influence without expending much risk, why not do it? They have it set up so they're not the ones left holding the hot potato, which wouldn't be the case if they made a play for the throne and a painted a bulls-eye on themselves.

Question for you, if Robb's plan had worked and Tywin had gone west, and say been captured. WOuld the Tyrells have joined in at the blackwater?

[HexMachina]

^Didn't they get kicked out of the Reach for trying to overthrow their liegelords? Considering what happened to the Reynes, Tarbecks and Greystarks they got off lucky.

i think the WOIAF might.have explained this but not.too sure. It might have been that they were in conflict with another House in the Reach (Peake maybe? Would have to read up on it again). I don't remember too well.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

^I agree. I think they're happy in the North and are loyal to the Starks. I doubt they even consider themselves northerners at this point. They've been there for almost 1,000 years. What Houses want to take Highgarden from them though? Isn't it just the Florents right now?

Everybody, given half a chance.

I am presuming the North will become a wasteland of dead bodies, destroyed land, humanity will be generally pushed South, but that might be the Lord of the Rings fan talking. The Manderlys were pushed out of the Reach because they were becoming too powerful.

Damn unlikely. The Starks feature too prominent for that. If the North would be devastated, the main characters would be out of the South and the fate of the North would feature only in a prologue of sorts.

^Didn't they get kicked out of the Reach for trying to overthrow their liegelords? Considering what happened to the Reynes, Tarbecks and Greystarks they got off lucky.

Inner politics. A small discussion with House Peake. Guilt is impossible to determine but Maester Yandel seems to but the initiative on the side of the Peakes. Given his bias where the South and especially the Reach is concerned, it's telling.