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House Dondarrion and House Selmy


Floki of the Ironborn

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Even though two of the important supporting characters are from these respective houses, we don't actually know or hear much at all about the houses that they come from. They're both marcher lordships, so they're among the elite warriors in Westeros, but how strong are they exactly? Did they participate in the War of the Five Kings? Who do they support? And who will take over House Dondarrion now that its last lord is dead?


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House Dondarrion is one of the strongest Houses in the Stormlands. Not the strongest, but damn strong either way. Between 2,500 and 5,000 men, which is damn strong for the Stormlands with their total of about 30,000.


The main strength remained at home. Actually, all their strength but Beric and his ~20 guards for the Tourney remained at home. The heir hasn't been named yet.



House Selmy is damn unimportant. Minor marcher Lords at best.


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Hm. Shame that Dondarrion didn't think to bring more of his men to go hunt Clegane. But now there's almost five thousand men just sitting around whose military prowess means they could probably defeat fAegon's Golden Company right now if they felt like doing so. With help from whatever forces are left in the Stormlands.


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Oh, the Stormlords have still most of their men. Somewhere between 25,000 and 28,000 of their initial 30,000*. They lack leadership, no more.



Three potential candidates: JonCon, Stannis Baratheon, or in a pinch, Ned Dayne and whoever is heir to House Dondarrion - which means supporting Stannis.




* Stannis' force at the Blackwater was mostly from the Reach and the survivors went home anyway.


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The Dondarrions may even have Targaryen blood, if my assessment that Jena Dondarrion must have been Baelor Breakspear's cousin through either Baela or Rhaena Targaryen's children is correct. The reasoning behind that assumption is that it would make no sense to assume that Egg's marriage to Betha Blackwood would have caused massive opposition had he been at the top of the kine of succession if the Realm apparently was absolutely fine with the marriage of the Prince of Dragonstone to a Dondarrion. Unless we assume that Jena and Baelor was cousins, as no one could reasonably object if Daeron II continued to follow the incest policy and married his heir in lack of a sister to close cousin through the female line.


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Why didn't the storm lords go with Stannis?

They did. But so did most of the Lords of the Reach. Stannis' force at the Blackwater was abut 5,000 from the Narrow Sea and 15,000 from the Reach and the Stormlands combined, with the Reach providing the majority. The 15,000 he took of Renly's cavalry. Probably 10,000 from the Reach and 5,000 from the Stormlands or thereabouts.

Just look at the Florents. They are not from the Stormlands.

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If the Stormlords still have tens of thousands of men, why is fAegon seizing castles left and right? Hell, why is he able to march on Storm's End? Sure, the Stormlords might be confused as to whether they should support Stannis or Tommen, but I highly doubt they'd just sit idly while their neighbours fall one by one.


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They did. But so did most of the Lords of the Reach. Stannis' force at the Blackwater was abut 5,000 from the Narrow Sea and 15,000 from the Reach and the Stormlands combined, with the Reach providing the majority. The 15,000 he took of Renly's cavalry. Probably 10,000 from the Reach and 5,000 from the Stormlands or thereabouts.

Just look at the Florents. They are not from the Stormlands.

Sorry but I think you are dead wrong. Most of the Reach lords followed Mace, not Stannis. Powerful houses like Rowan, Tarly, Hightower, Redwyne didn't change sides. Yes, some of them did but there is no way that they made up the most of Blackwater army. Every lord in stormlands followed Renly, after he died they sided with Stannis.

The ones who were sided with Stannis eventually bend knee. So his army is made up by few Reach lords, stormlanders and narrow sea lords.

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Sorry but I think you are dead wrong. Most of the Reach lords followed Mace, not Stannis. Powerful houses like Rowan, Tarly, Hightower, Redwyne didn't change sides. Yes, some of them did but there is no way that they made up the most of Blackwater army. Every lord in stormlands followed Renly, after he died they sided with Stannis.

The ones who were sided with Stannis eventually bend knee. So his army is made up by few Reach lords, stormlanders and narrow sea lords.

Hightower stayed at home, and the minimal cotribution he made to Renly's war effort, two of his bannermen, were with Stannis on the Blackwater. Redwyne stayed home because his sons were hostage at the capital.

Renly took most of his cavalry to Storm's End. Even if he left 5,000 horse behind, the Stormlands cannot possibly have as many, let alone more cavalry than the Reach. 16,000 horse with Stannis versus ~9,000 horse with Garlan (after Loras joins him with 4,000) means plenty of Reach lords bent the knee.

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Speaking of Stormlands casualties, wasn't there also a fight at Bitterbridge in the wake of Renly's death? I'm pretty sure Randyll and Loras had many would-be Stannis supporters killed, and the rest just decided to go home rather than journey to Stannis's cause.


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Speaking of Stormlands casualties, wasn't there also a fight at Bitterbridge in the wake of Renly's death? I'm pretty sure Randyll and Loras had many would-be Stannis supporters killed, and the rest just decided to go home rather than journey to Stannis's cause.

The casualies were mainly Florents. A bunch had returned home, but there was not really a battle. Stormlandes died on the Blackwater, and at Duskendale under Tarly's command. But overall the casualties should be low. Out of 16,000 Reach and Stormlords south of the Blackwater during the battle, ~8,000 went back to "Renly", ~1,300 went with Stannis, several thousands were left behind, and several thousands died in the battle south of the River. Let's say ~4,000 died (not including the fleet, those were mainly Stannis' men and sellswords). Of those about 1-2,000 Stormlanders? Add a few hundred from Duskendale? The Stormlands have lost ~2,500 men tops during the war.

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The casualies were mainly Florents. A bunch had returned home, but there was not really a battle. Stormlandes died on the Blackwater, and at Duskendale under Tarly's command. But overall the casualties should be low. Out of 16,000 Reach and Stormlords south of the Blackwater during the battle, ~8,000 went back to "Renly", ~1,300 went with Stannis, several thousands were left behind, and several thousands died in the battle south of the River. Let's say ~4,000 died (not including the fleet, those were mainly Stannis' men and sellswords). Of those about 1-2,000 Stormlanders? Add a few hundred from Duskendale? The Stormlands have lost ~2,500 men tops during the war.

Well then we should go back to King Floki's earlier question. How has fAegon been able to conquer the Stormlands with less than five thousand men of the Golden Company?

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Well then we should go back to King Floki's earlier question. How has fAegon been able to conquer the Stormlands with less than five thousand men of the Golden Company?

Plot?

Some Stormlords are with Tarly, and their men are with them, such as Connington. His uncle attacked a relatively empty castle. Aside from that it's not all the Stormlands, it's a part of the Stormlands. Though I agree that logically they should have faced far more troops than they had so far.

The Hightowers did not stay at home, the Reach can not bring 50k soldiers to the field with the biggest of the lords out of the war.

We have the names of two of his bannermen present at Renly's host. But considering that he has 3 times more than the most powerfull lord after him, not counting what he can raise from the city, the fact that we only see two bannermen points to Barbrey Dustin's tactic of sending as little as possible without risking the anger of the Lord Paramount. We should have been seeing Hightower family members and bannermen and banners everywhere. Yet we don't.

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Well then we should go back to King Floki's earlier question. How has fAegon been able to conquer the Stormlands with less than five thousand men of the Golden Company?

Because of the lack of leadership. And the surprise attack. And the fact that they conquered only some castles, while 99.99% of the Stormlands never saw a member of the Golden Company.

JonCon is a Stormlord, by the way. He's one of the about five guys who could get the Stormlords mostly united behind them.

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Sorry but I think you are dead wrong. Most of the Reach lords followed Mace, not Stannis. Powerful houses like Rowan, Tarly, Hightower, Redwyne didn't change sides. Yes, some of them did but there is no way that they made up the most of Blackwater army. Every lord in stormlands followed Renly, after he died they sided with Stannis.

Redwyne was sitting out because his sons were hostage. Hightower doesn't seem to have a huge presence in Renly's army.

You are correct big houses like Tarly, Oakhart and Rowan appear to have stayed with the Tyrells. But a lot of a reachmen did change to Stannis. We know of House Florent, Varner, Meadows, Mullendore and (red) Fossoway which are lords. There's also (green) Fossoway, Willum and Crane mentioned.

The other thing is just because those Lord's went back to the Tyrells, it doesn't mean all their bannermen went with them. If Tarly has 5000 men and hypothetically say 1500 are mounted lances, he may have only taken 500 of the 1500 back from bitterbridge as some of the men sworn to him may have jumped to Stannis.

Because if there was 20k men and 16k stayed with Stannis a large number, possibly 2/3rds of those must be reachmen siding with Stannis.

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JonCon is a Stormlord, by the way. He's one of the about five guys who could get the Stormlords mostly united behind them.

He was a Stormlord fifteen years ago, and he's mostly remembered for fighting for the Mad King against his liege lord and losing. IIRC, Tyrion's assumed that Jon Connington died a while ago. We can assume most haven't been holding a torch for him. Why would they rally behind him now when he's dispossessing them in the name of a boy who might not even be what he claims to be?

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He was a Stormlord fifteen years ago, and he's mostly remembered for fighting for the Mad King against his liege lord and losing. IIRC, Tyrion's assumed that Jon Connington died a while ago. We can assume most haven't been holding a torch for him. Why would they rally behind him now when he's dispossessing them in the name of a boy who might not even be what he claims to be?

Because there is nobody else.

Robert? Dead.

Renly? Dead.

Stannis? Far away and, well, Stannis.

Tommen? Lannister incest-spawn.

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Because there is nobody else.

Robert? Dead.

Renly? Dead.

Stannis? Far away and, well, Stannis.

Tommen? Lannister incest-spawn.

Bryce Caron? Dead

Rolland Storm? (more for commanding chops than prestige) MIA on Dragonstone

Barristan Selmy? Meeren

Cortnay Penrose? (probably had a similar sway to Nestor Royce when alive) Dead

And those Stormlords up in the North with Stannis like Lord Morrigen.

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