TimJames Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 How are they similar? How are they different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Oberyn:"MY SISTAH! I KILL THEM ALL FUCK THEM!!! IM GONNA...""Brother, calm down. We'll think this through""Ok..." Brandon:"MY SISTAH! I KILL THEM ALL FUCK THEM!!! IM GONNA KILL THEM ALL, BASTARDS! RHAEGAR! COME OUT AND DIE! WHAT? LET ME GO IM THREATENING NO ONE, WHAT? FATHER! NO LET HIM GO! LET HIM GO! GIVE MY SWOAAAARRRGHHH....". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Amethyst Empress Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Both good warriors,both f*cked everything that moved...But Oberyn was smarter,he didn't get himself foolishly killed until muuuch later in the series Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia Martell Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Well, Oberyn seemed to be a lot more into, like, consent, then Brandon was. I mean, Oberyn did once punch his Baby Mama in the face, so he’s far from perfect but Brandon’s whole “A bloody sword is a beautiful thing” is just :ack: And he was an intellectual and poor Brandon was... not by all accounts. And I somehow don’t think Brandon would ever take his daughters on educational field trips or teach them all about sexual agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryanfury Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I like it how people are drawing conclusions that aren't in the text to trash Brandon. Its never stated he isn't intellectual, we know of one woman he slept with, there is nothing whatsoever to evaluate his potential as a parent... Lovely opinions, Im sure, but thy arent facts.What did Oberyn and Brandon have in common? Fighting. What was different? Oberyn had more patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Well, Oberyn seemed to be a lot more into, like, consent, then Brandon was. I mean, Oberyn did once punch his Baby Mama in the face, so he’s far from perfect but Brandon’s whole “A bloody sword is a beautiful thing” is just :ack: How does that signal that he wasn't into consent? Especially, seeing how the person remembering him saying it consented to their exchange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia Martell Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 How does that signal that he wasn't into consent? Especially, seeing how the person remembering him saying it consented to their exchange. You’re right in that he didn’t, like, knock her out and drag her to his cave or whatever, but when I look at the whole passage: “The lantern light in her eyes made them seem as if they were afire. “Brandon was fostered at Barrowton with old Lord Dustin, the father of the one I’d later wed, but he spent most of his time riding the Rills. He loved to ride. His little sister took after him in that. A pair of centaurs, those two. And my lord father was always pleased to play host to the heir to Winterfell. My father had great ambitions for House Ryswell. He would have served up my maidenhead to any Stark who happened by, but there was no need. Brandon was never shy about taking what he wanted. I am old now, a dried-up thing, too long a widow, but I still remember the look of my maiden’s blood on his cock the night he claimed me. I think Brandon liked the sight as well. A bloody sword is a beautiful thing, yes. It hurt, but it was a sweet pain. “The day I learned that Brandon was to marry Catelyn Tully, though … there was nothing sweet about that pain. He never wanted her, I promise you that. He told me so, on our last night together … but Rickard Stark had great ambitions too. Southron ambitions that would not be served by having his heir marry the daughter of one of his own vassals. Afterward my father nursed some hope of wedding me to Brandon’s brother Eddard, but Catelyn Tully got that one as well. I was left with young Lord Dustin, until Ned Stark took him from me.” it just leave a very bad taste in my mouth. He just strikes me as one of those entitled dude bros. It’s possible I’m not being fair to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 it just leave a very bad taste in my mouth. He just strikes me as one of those entitled dude bros. It’s possible I’m not being fair to him. Oberyn doesn't look all that better slapping his child's mother and taking her child away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia Martell Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Oberyn doesn't look all that better slapping his child's mother and taking her child away. Yeah, I did point that out. He also once called Cersei a whore, which I also didn’t take well. I think Oberyn at nineteen or twenty was certainly more like Brandon than Oberyn at forty was. He certainly seemed to have that whole entitled thing down. Maybe Brandon would have turned into less of an frat boy if he’s have lived. But it didn’t work for Robert, so who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 it just leave a very bad taste in my mouth. He just strikes me as one of those entitled dude bros. It’s possible I’m not being fair to him. While we don't know if Lady Dustin was aware or not, I think her recount of their relationship kinda implies that his father had no problem with Brandon banging his daughter if that means he would marry her and make them part of the family. And bot because Brandon could have been or not a good man, but because he was a Stark. And the saddest thing is that Brandon seemed to have realised that his father was not going to say anything if he actually used her for sex because he couldn't demand more from him than "taste" his daughter and they all had to accept it was his "right". And even sadder is that Barbrey was in the middle. I know many people say it was consensual but it was not. Brandon was in a more superior position and Lord Dustin probably taught his daughter that it was her duty to "please" their Lord. It's the same situation than Barra and Robert. I'm sure Brandon was very sweet to the point Barbrey actually believed he loved her and he definitely and totally did not want to marry the prettier more beneficial girl that Cat was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Meliora Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 You’re right in that he didn’t, like, knock her out and drag her to his cave or whatever, but when I look at the whole passage: it just leave a very bad taste in my mouth. He just strikes me as one of those entitled dude bros. It’s possible I’m not being fair to him. That passage didn't say rape or non-consensual to me at all. I read it as he was very up-front about what he wanted, and she was turned on by that. She didn't sound upset or traumatized or angry about it. She called it a "sweet pain," which reminded me very strongly of Lysa remembering her first night with Littlefinger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Oberyn doesn't look all that better slapping his child's mother and taking her child away. What if we switch the roles? What if it had been a mother who had realised leaving her child with the father would mean such girl to live in poverty or danger, and end up being a child prostitute and he doesn't want to give her up? What would we feel if such mother had slapped the father to take the girl away from him and to take her under her protection? I don't think Oberyn slapped Obara's mother because he saw her as some woman, but because she was in the middle of him giving the girl a better education and future. He would have beaten anyone in the middle of him and his child, whether a man or a woman. Also, remember that Oberyn lives in a place where woman are allowed to fight and one of their main historical figures is also a powerful woman. He doesn't see people as male or female but for their worth or danger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStarkInWinterhell Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 So according to some of you people Brandon basically raped her? But apparently it was a sweet pain. Meaning she didn't hate it. Oh and the fact they banged repeatedly. She wanted Brandon just as much as he wanted her. Yet he saw a piece of tail and she saw the Lady of Winterfell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Brandon Badwater Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Oberyn bangs women, Brandon bangs women. Oberyn bangs dudes, Brandon bangs women Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 So according to some of you people Brandon basically raped her? But apparently it was a sweet pain. Meaning she didn't hate it. Oh and the fact they banged repeatedly.She wanted Brandon just as much as he wanted her. Yet he saw a piece of tail and she saw the Lady of Winterfell. You know a person can be indoctrinated into believe having sex with a person they shouldn't is ok even if it is not, right? Lord Ryswell used his daughter as a bait. It backfired to him because Brandon never got any wishes to marry her, only bang her. Sansa's memories of her septa instructing her in sex portrays very well how sex is an obligation they have to perform. She pretty much tells Sansa that she HAS TO LIKE the sex she has with her future husband, even if he's deformed and ugly. There is a high chance that Barbrey has grown up believing that she HAD TO DO ANYTHING she could to catch a Stark because that would be good for her family. And Brandon seemed to have been a player that knew the game very well. If he told her a few pretty words, then Barbrey feels no actually political obligation but she does because she "wants" it and she keeps doing it even if Brandon is already going to marry someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia Martell Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 That passage didn't say rape or non-consensual to me at all. I read it as he was very up-front about what he wanted, and she was turned on by that. She didn't sound upset or traumatized or angry about it. She called it a "sweet pain," which reminded me very strongly of Lysa remembering her first night with Littlefinger. You mean the night when Lysa raped him? What if we switch the roles? What if it had been a mother who had realised leaving her child with the father would mean such girl to live in poverty or danger, and end up being a child prostitute and he doesn't want to give her up? What would we feel if such mother had slapped the father to take the girl away from him and to take her under her protection? I don't think Oberyn slapped Obara's mother because he saw her as some woman, but because she was in the middle of him giving the girl a better education and future. He would have beaten anyone in the middle of him and his child, whether a man or a woman. Also, remember that Oberyn lives in a place where woman are allowed to fight and one of their main historical figures is also a powerful woman. He doesn't see people as male or female but for their worth or danger. I really don’t want to whitewash Oberyn behaviour here or make excuses for it. It’s quite clear to me that Oberyn had all the power in that situation, and that he abused it. It really doesn’t matter what his motivation was. The fact that he wanted to give lil’ Obara a better life and not be a dead beat dad anymore is admirable does change the fact that he assaulted a person who didn’t have any legal recourse or means of defending herself. And he did it to, like, make a rhetorical point, or something. (And Oberyn’s odd baby collecting impulse is one of the many reasons I love him to death.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStarkInWinterhell Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 You know a person can be indoctrinated into believe having sex with a person they shouldn't is ok even if it is not, right? Lord Ryswell used his daughter as a bait. It backfired to him because Brandon never got any wishes to marry her, only bang her. Sansa's memories of her septa instructing her in sex portrays very well how sex is an obligation they have to perform. She pretty much tells Sansa that she HAS TO LIKE the sex she has with her future husband, even if he's deformed and ugly. There is a high chance that Barbrey has grown up believing that she HAD TO DO ANYTHING she could to catch a Stark because that would be good for her family. And Brandon seemed to have been a player that knew the game very well. If he told her a few pretty words, then Barbrey feels no actually political obligation but she does because she "wants" it and she keeps doing it even if Brandon is already going to marry someone else.Yet Barbrey was infatuated with Brandon, wanted to be a Stark and hates Maesters because she isn't one. She loved Brandon And whos to say he didn't feel the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Meliora Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 You mean the night when Lysa raped him? I really don’t want to whitewash Oberyn behaviour here or make excuses for it. It’s quite clear to me that Oberyn had all the power in that situation, and that he abused it. It really doesn’t matter what his motivation was. The fact that he wanted to give lil’ Obara a better life and not be a dead beat dad anymore is admirable does change the fact that he assaulted a person who didn’t have any legal recourse or means of defending herself. And he did it to, like, make a rhetorical point, or something. (And Oberyn’s odd baby collecting impulse is one of the many reasons I love him to death.) ...Yeah, pretty much. I hadn't really thought much about it because the whole scene was weird as hell, but considering how out of it on pain medication Littlefinger was, he really wasn't capable of giving consent and probably DID think it was Cat, rather than just imagining. My point was, however, that it was a positive memory for Lysa--much like it seems to be a positive memory for Lady Dustin. Also, I agree 100% that Oberyn was out-of-line in slapping Obara's mother. Genders reversed, it would still never be okay for one parent to slap another, especially in front of their child, just to make some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of Vaes Tolorro Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Oberyn bangs women, Brandon bangs women. Oberyn bangs dudes, Brandon bangs women Whoomp There it is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PancakeMountainThatRides Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I love how even though Barbrey actually says she was into it, doesn't even just imply it, people are like, nah, she totally wasn't into it. And how people can make assumptions like Brandon was just hitting and quitting it and was totally lying about not wanting to marrying Cat, when the truth is there's really nothing to suggest he wouldnt rather be with Barbrey, but he knows his duty as heir and loves his papa.As far as the OP, I think they were both hot headed, but unfortunately for Brandon, he didn't have Doran to exercise some control over him. Remember, after Elia died, Oberyn was ready to raise the banners for Viserys. So it's not as if they both didn't have rather strong responses to something happening to their sisters, Oberyn just had Doran around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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