Bendubz Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I was thinking about TWot5K the other day and came to a realisation. The only reason Stannis was, and still is involved, is because he found out about Joffrey's illegitimacy. Using this logic he believed he was thus next in line to the throne, since he was Robert's oldest brother. This is the main reason many believe he would have accepted Robb being King of the North, since he was not challenging Stannis' claim. Children would supercede siblings in the heirship though. So if Stannis were to meet Gendry he would know that gendry was the rightful king. Do you think that stannis would swear fealty to Gendry and if so why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyrhex Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Stannis saw Gendry. As a bastard, he is not in line. There is no reason for Stannis to bend the knee to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCrannogDweller Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Gendry is bastard-born and illegitimate children do not inherit anything - so no, Stannis would not have sworn fealty to him. And Stannis quite clearly showed that he wasn't ready to accept Robb as King in the North, because he considered the North part of his own Kingdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shmewdog Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Stannis will never bend the knee. He will keep on fighting no matter how hopeless the odds are. It will be the end of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxWolfox Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I was thinking about TWot5K the other day and came to a realisation. The only reason Stannis was, and still is involved, is because he found out about Joffrey's illegitimacy. Using this logic he believed he was thus next in line to the throne, since he was Robert's oldest brother. This is the main reason many believe he would have accepted Robb being King of the North, since he was not challenging Stannis' claim. Children would supercede siblings in the heirship though. So if Stannis were to meet Gendry he would know that gendry was the rightful king. Do you think that stannis would swear fealty to Gendry and if so why? For Gendry to be the rightful king, he'd have to be legitimised, by the current rightful king (or religious leader like the Septon). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyrhex Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 For Gendry to be the rightful king, he'd have to be legitimised, by the current rightful king (or religious leader like the Septon). The High Speton has no power to legitimize, only the king can do that. So unless Stannis legitimizes him, there is no chance he is getting in line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCrannogDweller Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 The High Speton has no power to legitimize, only the king can do that. So unless Stannis legitimizes him, there is no chance he is getting in line. Then you get a legal paradox though, because Stannis has to be the King to legitimize Gendry - but when he legitimizes him, Gendry becomes king and Stannis' proclamation becomes moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxWolfox Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Then you get a legal paradox though, because Stannis has to be the King to legitimize Gendry - but when he legitimizes him, Gendry becomes king and Stannis' proclamation becomes moot. Exactly. You said it better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyrhex Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Then you get a legal paradox though, because Stannis has to be the King to legitimize Gendry - but when he legitimizes him, Gendry becomes king and Stannis' proclamation becomes moot. Not really. Despite the common misconception about this "chicken and the egg" scenario, Gendry's legitimacy comes from Stannis. If Stannis wishes Gendry to be his heir, he names him heir. If he wishes to give him the crown, he gives him the crown. The decree would be clear about this issue, and there is no real paradox here. Legally, Stannis was king when he signed the decree, and Gendry was legal from that point on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.P. Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Stannis would do what he thought was right. If there somehow came a scenario in which Stannis, according to his own beliefs, was not the rightful king, he would step down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I never got why people seem to think Robert's children would ever have any claim to the throne. Gendry is a blacksmith, you think anyone is going to bend the knee to him? Mya is a glorified stablegirl. Bella is a prostitute. Edric Storm you could make a case for since he was raised as part of Renly's household in Storm's End, but he's the only one. Except Stannis remembers vividly that Robert conceived that boy in HIS bed, so Stannis legitimizing him seems to be out of the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hand to King Davos Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Stannis would do what he thought was right. If there somehow came a scenario in which Stannis, according to his own beliefs, was not the rightful king, he would step down. This. Not sure why everyone seems to think Stannis will never give up the throne. He will only give it up to someone he feels deserves it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronn Urgandy Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 This. Not sure why everyone seems to think Stannis will never give up the throne. He will only give it up to someone he feels deserves it. So, himself then? Pretty sure Stannis is fighting a war to keep bastards off the Iron Throne, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnFit Finlay Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 This. Not sure why everyone seems to think Stannis will never give up the throne. He will only give it up to someone he feels deserves it. I think it goes back to the Donal Noye quote about him breaking before he bends which people seem to take as gospel, despite Stannis' actions in recent books proving that it isn't even close to true. Stannis will try and do what is right. If it comes down to a choice between the Throne or the realm, he'll choose the Realm every time. I think a better question would be what he'd do if he DIDN'T know about the Twincest. Would he go to war with Renly on Joffrey's behalf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adiman83 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 So if Stannis were to meet Gendry he would know that gendry was the rightful king. Do you think that stannis would swear fealty to Gendry and if so why? It would never happen because Gendry is a bastard, and by law he doesn't have the right to rule. Also, on their social scale he is even lower than the Snows, Flowers, Hills and the other bastards because he was never acknowledged as Robert's son therefore he doesn't even have a bastard name. Edric Storm would have a better chance than Gendry of becoming king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Stannis will try and do what is right. If it comes down to a choice between the Throne or the realm, he'll choose the Realm every time. I think a better question would be what he'd do if he DIDN'T know about the Twincest. Would he go to war with Renly on Joffrey's behalf? Yes he would. He'd frown and grind his teeth at what a miserable little psychopath Joffrey is, but he'd do his duty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.P. Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I think it goes back to the Donal Noye quote about him breaking before he bends which people seem to take as gospel, despite Stannis' actions in recent books proving that it isn't even close to true. "Breaking before he bends" has nothing to do with Stannis not bending his knee to anyone. It means Stannis will never refrain from doing what he thinks is right. In this case, he thinks him being the king is what's right. It's not that Stannis would enjoy being king, he just think being king is his duty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 In this case, he thinks him being the king is what's right. It's not that Stannis would enjoy being king, he just think being king is his duty. To be fair, he's right about that. Stannis as king is one of the few best-case scenarios left to us by this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.P. Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 To be fair, he's right about that. Stannis as king is one of the few best-case scenarios left to us by this point. I also think Stannis would make a decent king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnFit Finlay Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Yes he would. He'd frown and grind his teeth at what a miserable little psychopath Joffrey is, but he'd do his duty. Yes, I agree with that. I think he'd struggle, the same way he did when he had to choose between Robert and Aerys but, ultimately Renly's lack of a claim would lead him to side with Joffrey. I do think that Tywin would be smart enough to avoid putting him directly against Renly though. "Breaking before he bends" has nothing to do with Stannis not bending his knee to anyone. It means Stannis will never refrain from doing what he thinks is right. In this case, he thinks him being the king is what's right. It's not that Stannis would enjoy being king, he just think being king is his duty. Oh sure, There's a lot of people take it the other way though. As if Stannis is some myopic simpleton with absolutely no flexibility at all. I'm sure I even had an argument with someone claiming that, even if Jon Snow defeated the Others and proved without a doubt that he was Azor Ahai Reborn and The Prince That Was Promised, Stannis would STILL refuse to give up his claim, using the whole "break before he bends" quote to justify it. I think Stannis is the most interesting character in the series. He'd have been a terrible King if he'd won on the Blackwater but the evolution he's gone through since then has meant that he's by far the best of the current claimants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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