How did the crazy social system of the Middle Ages ever end?

[H.P.]

Okay, Westeros is based pretty strongly on medieval Europe, right? I'm talking about stuff like politics, ruling, laws, value systems, technological advances, beliefs and so on.

And when it comes to those things, Westeros seems downright terrible to me, in many ways. The lack of democracy, the lack of women's rights, the morbid feudal system, etc. As bad as our society is today, I certainly prefer it to a medieval one.

But my question is, how did that kind of society ever start to progress? I can't wrap my head around it.

I mean, let's say it started from below. A group of peasants decided that they wanted the same liberties as noblemen, and started a revolt. Such a revolt would immediately be struck down, right?

Or say it started from above. A king finds himself thinking that it seems unfair that he gets to sit on his arse all day and eat the best food and sleep in silken beds without doing zilch, and decides to abdicate and let a government rule in his stead. A Varys or a Littlefinger would end his life within a fortnight.

So how did that society change?

Note than I'm pretty much an idiot when it comes to history. What little I know about it comes from fiction.

[TerrorVoid]

Industrial revolution.

Either you progress or you will be destroyed by more progressive enemy.

ADD:

Unlike in medieval or ancient times, you need good specialists with brains. A lot of them, not a single genius. And if the man has brains, he starts to look around and ask: "WTF??".

ADD2:

Also, you need a lot of food to feed ppl who do the science, industry etc. But that isn't a case in GoT.

[Hand to King Davos]

The Rennaisaince was the next phase in history. It was marked, among other things, by an increase in the power of the middle class and the growth of a new merchant class. The discovery of the Americas also helped. It is hard to boil it down to one answer, but the new middle class is usually regarded as one big reason. The Enlightenment and its emphasis on human reason is another often given.

[shmewdog]

The Black Plague actually helped create the new middle class (in the long run) as so many people were killed in the peasantry that those who survived could charge more for their labor

[OldGimletEye]

The Rennaisaince was the next phase in history. It was marked, among other things, by an increase in the power of the middle class and the growth of a new merchant class. The discovery of the Americas also helped. It is hard to boil it down to one answer, but the new middle class is usually regarded as one big reason. The Enlightenment and its emphasis on human reason is another often given.

I agree with a lot of this. I would also add the centralization of state power was important too. And a reason for that was more effective systems of state finance and banking. And better monetary stability helped too.

[MakeThemBurn]

Have we really progressed that much, though? We live in a world where the richest 1% owns half of everything on this planet while billions live in poverty. Meanwhile big banks and corporations rule over nations and their elected leaders. No matter what century people live in, the pattern remains the same: the rich rule the poor.

[Facebookless Man]

We only made our society less terrible for ourselves by using other people as the peons.

[H.P.]

Have we really progressed that much, though? We live in a world where the richest 1% owns half of everything on this planet while billions live in poverty. Meanwhile big banks and corporations rule over nations and their elected leaders. No matter what century people live in, the pattern remains the same: the rich rule the poor.

We've wiped out like a gazillion diseases, anybody can marry whomever they want, you can't settle a criminal case through trial by combat, ect...

[Bronn Urgandy]

The Black Plague actually helped create the new middle class (in the long run) as so many people were killed in the peasantry that those who survived could charge more for their labor

I was just about to say this.

Large scale death is often a catalyst for change, look out Westeros

[OldGimletEye]

Have we really progressed that much, though? We live in a world where the richest 1% owns half of everything on this planet while billions live in poverty. Meanwhile big banks and corporations rule over nations and their elected leaders. No matter what century people live in, the pattern remains the same: the rich rule the poor.

Leaving distributional issues aside, the question you pose may turn, in part, one what one believes about economic growth in the Middle Ages. There is one school of thought that believes that economic growth was pretty much stagnant during the Middle Ages. Although this view is not shared by every historian I don't think. Interestingly enough though, England during the Middle Ages might have had a higher GDP per capita than some of the poorest nations today.

But generally I would say yes for a variety of reasons other than how materially well off people are.

[H0X0]

Industrial revolution, 30 years was, black plague, Protestant Reformation, Hobbes, Jethro Tull, coal... Not really one answer.

[Victarion Chainbreaker]

Gunpowder.

In the middle ages the most powerful soldiers were the heavy cavalry. The cost of a warhorse, armor, and weapons made this a position open to only the rich, and the years of training necessary ensured that you had to have grown up rich, i.e. the nobility. The status quo was safe.

In the Renaissance the power of heavy cavalry began to wane as organized pikes could stop horses and gunpowder weapons could pierce armor (at short range.) Early gunpowder weapons were horribly inaccurate though, so commanders made large groups of them to fire in volleys. This proved so successful that gunpowder weapons took over as the main offensive weapon in war, and armies added more and more gunpowder weapons to their armies. The size of armies ballooned at this point, and the vast majority of the soldiers were not nobles.

In this way, commoners became the most powerful soldiers. All progressive political change came from this.

[Hand to King Davos]

Industrial revolution, 30 years was, black plague, Protestant Reformation, Hobbes, coal... Not really one answer.

:agree: This. Although Hobbes is an interesting answer...

[GallowsKnight]

(Most of ) Westeros still beats the pants of all of Essos barring Braavos where the Sealord can be shat on by a seagull in a play.

I mean the whole slavery thing.

[pride of the 7 kingdoms]

In real life society evolved in a very long process. In middle ages only the nobles could learn and peasants have very little rights. Also religion didn't allowed people to learn. Then there were reforms made about religion to make give people more rights and support them learning.Alao with the invention of press machines books become easier to reach.

In Renaissance which is nearly 100 years later people developed themselves in various arts and it allowed them to think freely. When started to think freely people mostly peasants understood that social classes are unfair and they shouldnt be ruled by kings. By the way it took them 200-300 years to understand it.

In French Revolution in 1789 French got rid of the king and started to rule themselves. After that kings started to fall one by one and the social classes became closer.

This is a summary of history of Europe. In short we can say that first people become able to learn. Then they could develop themselves in various subjects. Then they start to think freely. Only after that they try to make equality.

We see that Westeros is in the first step right now. As we see in the story commonfolk affects the world so little and they are mostly ignorant and do whatever their lords want.They are not able to think for the better of the commonfolk because of the ignorance. When you look at history of ASOIAF none of the rebellions were started by peasants. Dance of Dragons Blackfyre Rebellions and The War of the 5 King were for changing the king not the system so nothing will change except the name of the king for commonfolk.

That's why I think Dany is not going to succeed in helping the slaves. (I know you asked Westeros but I want to add) The slaves don't know anything about ruling and I don't think they could establish a Republic When Dany leaves. At best a new king comes and everything goes back to normal. The slavery could only be forbidden only if people become clever and strong enough to rebel (without dragons of course).

I think Westeros society is not going to evolve in a near future. It took hundreds of years in real life and development is much slower on Westeros so I can say it will take thousand of years to evolve at best.

[Lemonking]

Gunpowder.

In the middle ages the most powerful soldiers were the heavy cavalry. The cost of a warhorse, armor, and weapons made this a position open to only the rich, and the years of training necessary ensured that you had to have grown up rich, i.e. the nobility. The status quo was safe.

In the Renaissance the power of heavy cavalry began to wane as organized pikes could stop horses and gunpowder weapons could pierce armor (at short range.) Early gunpowder weapons were horribly inaccurate though, so commanders made large groups of them to fire in volleys. This proved so successful that gunpowder weapons took over as the main offensive weapon in war, and armies added more and more gunpowder weapons to their armies. The size of armies ballooned at this point, and the vast majority of the soldiers were not nobles.

In this way, commoners became the most powerful soldiers. All progressive political change came from this.

There weren't enough nobles to make that work and most of them could barely afford the upkeep of their tiny 'castles'

[TheDrunkenDornishman]

anybody can marry whomever they want

Well that isn't true in the slightest in a lot of places

[H0X0]

:agree: This. Although Hobbes is an interesting answer...

Not so much the conclusion of absolutism, so much as the philosophy of government developed in making that argument. First thing that came to mind.

[H.P.]

Well that isn't true in the slightest in a lot of places

I'm speaking of "western" society, in general. USA, Scandinavia, Britain etc.

[Facebookless Man]

Technological progress requires better educated peons which in turn results in the emergence of a middle class and a rise in political awareness and social strife.

As you can see, there is no single, simple answer.