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The dagger hired to kill Bran : the ultimate theory with text references leading to Robert B.


Kikajon

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Many of us are not content with the theory backed by Jaime and Tyrion that Joffrey did it because he was “a child hungry for a pat on the head from that sot you (Cersei) let him believe was his father”.


Yes, many of us don’t believe that Joffrey was hungry for such a thing, nor that he had to give a common sellsword a valyrian knife to do the deed.


Other people had to gain from this, like LF but possibly, he only tried to use the situation for his purposes only after someone had done it.


So who? The explanation is in the text if you clear it out of the many red herrings that surround the whole situation.


Facts are these: there was only one person who declared that the boy had to die after the fall : Robert.


We have evidences against him from all the three person who knew him best,let's start with his wife and Jaime:


Quote


Oh, don’t be absurd.” Cersei closed the window. “yes, I hoped the boy would die. So did you. Even Robert thought that would have been for best. ‘We kill our horses when they break a leg, and our dogs when they go blind, but we are too weak to give the same mercy to crippled children’, he told me. He was blind himself at the time, from drink.”


Robert? Jaime had guarded the king enough to know that Robert Baratheon said things in his cups that he would have denied angrily the next day.



He had the murder uweapon, the motive for murder and the way to commit it.


It is even hinted that he may have given the command while drunk and forgot the whole of it the next day.


Or he may not have forgotten, he just did not care much for children anyway, and here is the testimony of his best friend, who knew him better than anyone else.



Quote


Ned rose and paced the length of the room “If the queen had a role in this or, gods forbid, the king himself…no, I will not believe that.” Yet even as he said the words, he remembered that chill morning on the barrowlands, and Robert’s talk of sending hired knives after the Targaryen princess. He remembered Rhaegar’s infant son, the red ruin of his skull, and the way the king had turned away, as he had turned away in Darry’s audience hall not so long ago. He could still hear Sansa pleading, as Lyanna had pleaded once. (…) the face of the butcher’s boy swam up before his eyes, cloven almost in two, and afterward the king had not said a word.



So, even Ned suspects Robert for a moment, then he’s led away by LF scheming.


The evidences are all there, if you don't fit easy with the Joffrey theory and don't want to bring magic in there's only one culprit in sight., by Ned's, Cersei amd Jaime's own words.



Please Robert fans don't be too harsh in your anwers :)


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Nah. Bob would never hire an assassin to kill his best friend's son. That is just silly. Thinking it would be better if a cripple dies is a LONG way from hiring someone to slit his throat.



It may be that the author retconned Joff as the culprit and had originally intended it to be either Cersei or Jamie, but changed his mind when he decided to give them POVs.


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Possible? yes. Likely? no.



its funny bc I doubt GRRM would bring this catspaw thing up again in the next book so we might be done with getting clues as to who did it. I think the biggest clue is that GRRM made it that not one but two characters, Jaime and tyrion, both came to the same conclusion. although tyrion doesn't believe that joff did it for Roberts love. it would be a strange way of writing to make both of them think its joff then it not to be. but at the same time it seems most readers, myself included, don't really see why joff would do it.



side note. I think we def no its not cersei though. so there also are not that many people it can be.


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What possible motive would Robert have for killing Bran that would be worth the price of alienating his best friend if it fails? Bran wasn't a threat to Robert. Not to mention Robert would be the kind of guy to shoot his own horse so to speak.

Seems aaaaalmost possible, but his best mates son? Gonna have to stick with Joff

Although it is not stricly comparable, the same goes with the killing of Lady.

In the first place he could have gone to to point in having Nymeria killed, but Lady? If that was not an alienation of his gooed friend sympathies, what else?

And he didn't straightly order it but the butcher boy was the Arya's best friend and a servant of Ned, was it needed to kill him too?

It looks like Robert didn't put any weight on the life of anumals or kids.

yes, maybe excluding his horse..

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GRRM legitimately told you who did it twice, he really doesn't make things more definitive than that.

yes but from two brothers who may be strongly biased on their "nephew", and I don't mean biased in the bad, but they would think that Joff would care a fig for who he thought was his father.

Seeing it from outside I doubt any other POV including readers can think Joff would have taken all that pain for...a pat on the head from Robert?? Why he never did anything to deserve anything, always everything was due to him...

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yes but from two brothers who may be strongly biased on their "nephew", and I don't mean biased in the bad, but they would think that Joff would care a fig for who he thought was his father.

Seeing it from outside I doubt any other POV including readers can think Joff would have taken all that pain for...a pat on the head from Robert?? Why he never did anything to deserve anything, always everything was due to him...

He probably did it just because he was a sadistic psychopath and thought it would be fun to kill one of the Stark boys. I don't think there is any question that Joff is supposed to be the person behind the attempt, my only question is, since it' fits into the story awkwardly, is this what GRRM always intended or did he have something/someone else in mind and changed along the way.

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I can't buy the Joffrey theory- would he really send a sellsword with a valyrian knife all the way to Winterfell, just to be appreciated by his already appreciative mother and distant father who may or may not be pleased by it? And then he didn't even tell them so there's no way they could appreciate him for it. He certainly wasn't under appreciated by Cersei, and he wasn't dumb enough to think that every little thing Robert said when he was drunk was his deepest wish.

He's also just a kid. Shouting "KILL THEM ALL" or getting in a duel with a under-armed butcher's boy to impress Sansa are really a lot different from sending an assassin to go kill someone. ShowJoffrey would do that, but BookJoffrey wasn't that violent, that evil, that sadistic, or even that proactive.
I can't buy Robert doing it either, but it makes a little more sense than Joffrey. I doubt we'll ever know.
Is there any possibility it was LF?

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I can't buy the Joffrey theory- would he really send a sellsword with a valyrian knife all the way to Winterfell, just to be appreciated by his already appreciative mother and distant father who may or may not be pleased by it? And then he didn't even tell them so there's no way they could appreciate him for it. He certainly wasn't under appreciated by Cersei, and he wasn't dumb enough to think that every little thing Robert said when he was drunk was his deepest wish.

He's also just a kid. Shouting "KILL THEM ALL" or getting in a duel with a under-armed butcher's boy to impress Sansa are really a lot different from sending an assassin to go kill someone. ShowJoffrey would do that, but BookJoffrey wasn't that violent, that evil, that sadistic, or even that proactive.

I can't buy Robert doing it either, but it makes a little more sense than Joffrey. I doubt we'll ever know.

Is there any possibility it was LF?

Book Joffrey is pretty sadistic, and not very smart. I agree that he doesn't have much of a motive to kill Bran, but he has SOME motive, more than Robert, certainly, who has none.

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Robert has no motive to kill Bran. Bran doesn't pose any sort of a threat to him; and Robert already has what he wants from Ned.

His motive was "mercy" like the motive for killing Lady in place of Nymeria or letting Mycah be butchered was "justice".

Joff really had no motive.

Robert had nothing to gain, he was drunk of foole enough to think it was a good thing to do for mercy and did it. and probalbly after the booze didn't even recollect giving the order

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I can't buy the Joffrey theory- would he really send a sellsword with a valyrian knife all the way to Winterfell, just to be appreciated by his already appreciative mother and distant father who may or may not be pleased by it? And then he didn't even tell them so there's no way they could appreciate him for it. He certainly wasn't under appreciated by Cersei, and he wasn't dumb enough to think that every little thing Robert said when he was drunk was his deepest wish.

He's also just a kid. Shouting "KILL THEM ALL" or getting in a duel with a under-armed butcher's boy to impress Sansa are really a lot different from sending an assassin to go kill someone. ShowJoffrey would do that, but BookJoffrey wasn't that violent, that evil, that sadistic, or even that proactive.

I can't buy Robert doing it either, but it makes a little more sense than Joffrey. I doubt we'll ever know.

Is there any possibility it was LF?

LF really is the only other option, but that would mean him having spies and operatives at Winterfell that early on, and that he was somehow able to get orders to Winterfell by proxy to have Bran killed using a dagger to frame Tyrion...that would put Book LF in the Bond Villain category.

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His motive was "mercy" like the motive for killing Lady in place of Nymeria or letting Mycah be butchered was "justice".

Joff really had no motive.

Robert had nothing to gain, he was drunk of foole enough to think it was a good thing to do for mercy and did it. and probalbly after the booze didn't even recollect giving the order

Bob has nothing to do with the butcher's boy, that was Joff, the Hound was Joff's bodyguard, going on Joff's orders, and of course the Hound didn't have to kill the butcher's boy either, except he did, because he likes killing.

The wolves have nothing at all to do with Bran. Hello. Everyone in Winterfell is wearing wolf pelts. We know, and they know that the 5 dire wolves are different, but to everyone else they're just wolves...wolves that people in Westeros including the Starks hunt and kill and wear their fur.

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Bob has nothing to do with the butcher's boy, that was Joff, the Hound was Joff's bodyguard, going on Joff's orders, and of course the Hound didn't have to kill the butcher's boy either, except he did, because he likes killing.

The wolves have nothing at all to do with Bran. Hello. Everyone in Winterfell is wearing wolf pelts. We know, and they know that the 5 dire wolves are different, but to everyone else they're just wolves...wolves that people in Westeros including the Starks hunt and kill and wear their fur.

Yes but they point is that Robert was not so sensitive towards Ned, he let Joff have his will kiling a servant of Ned, Roberti is the KING even his son is not supposed to do everything he likes including killing boys. As for Lady, Ned ASKED him for mercy and mercy he gave none.

May even be that, on account of being so rude to Ned dirting the trip back to KL he drunkenly thought of granting him the mercy of ending his crippled son's life.

After all even Tyrion said, had not he been nobly born, he would probably have been left in the woods to die.

Probably robert truly believed it to be a mercy..

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