The dagger hired to kill Bran : the ultimate theory with text references leading to Robert B.

[DarkSister1001]

I could see Robert hiring someone to do it when he was drunk, I'd be on board with this theory as of the end of AGoT. BUT since we've been told it was Joff in the subsequent books and the suspects are dead with no way of revealing the truth I think it's safe to say definitively that Joff hired the assassin. Unless Bran has a vision of the hiring (I think unlikely) I put this baby to bed and move on to the truly unsolved mysteries.

[ChillyPolly]

It was Tommen.

[Staenerys Stargaryen]

I like to think King Storm, in his drunken rants on the worth of crippled children in Westeros, is speaking more about the distaste for his own royal litter rather than actually killing his best friends son. I mean look who he is talking to, it wasnt yo Ned Bran should get it. But that is the implication i guess

Robert was my favorite character RIP but he was kind of an idiot when it came to not catching twincest. Especially because the people closest to him were figuring it out and dying for it.

Bran gonna be alright, started from the bottom now he in magic tree land

[Kikajon]

Where's Stannis the Mannis? We have the second nomination for Crackpot of the Year 2015 right here.

Too much honour,ser! :)

I find this theory more believable than Joff's one.

Would you care to link the fist nominee? Just out of curiosity.

thanks

[Lord Lannister]

Although it is not stricly comparable, the same goes with the killing of Lady.

In the first place he could have gone to to point in having Nymeria killed, but Lady? If that was not an alienation of his gooed friend sympathies, what else?

And he didn't straightly order it but the butcher boy was the Arya's best friend and a servant of Ned, was it needed to kill him too?

It looks like Robert didn't put any weight on the life of anumals or kids.

yes, maybe excluding his horse..

You're right, it's not strictly comparable. With the killing of Lady/the Butcher's Boy you had Cersei and Joffrey advocating that position rather forcefully for their own self serving reasons. Robert doesn't have similar reasoning in regards to Bran.

[RedShirt47]

It may be that the author retconned Joff as the culprit and had originally intended it to be either Cersei or Jamie, but changed his mind when he decided to give them POVs.

I agree.

I don't really get Joff as the one to hire the cat's-paw but seems like GRRM didn't want it to be Cercei for some reason. She always seemed the most likely to me.

I wonder if originally they did kill Jon Arryn and Lysa was retconned in to that too?

[Kikajon]

You're right, it's not strictly comparable. With the killing of Lady/the Butcher's Boy you had Cersei and Joffrey advocating that position rather forcefully for their own self serving reasons. Robert doesn't have similar reasoning in regards to Bran.

yes, NOT similar, completely different in effect.

In that case he thought to do a mercy killing for Bran, I think he though a life of a crippled boy wasn't woth being lived and a source of suffering for the oy and it's family.

What could a boy life be woth if he's not capable of fighting, riding and whoring?

He may have pitied him to that point.

But I think he took the decision while drunk, then regarded it as a bad dream..

[Jasta11]

What possible motive could Robert have to kill his best friend's son? Beyond saying so, I mean, because Robert says many things and doesn't follow up on lots of them.

And no, because he sent assassins against Dany is not a valid explanations. Dany was a clear threat to his rule, and King Bob hates the Targaryens on principle to boot. That is not true of Bran at all.

[Pilusmagnus]

Too much honour,ser! :)

I find this theory more believable than Joff's one.

Would you care to link the fist nominee? Just out of curiosity.

thanks

This was last year's edition of the contest : http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/122793-2014-crackpot-of-the-year-results/#entry6600247

And this is the first nomination he acknowledged for the next one : http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/123080-is-littlefinger-actually-dead/

[UnFit Finlay]

I can't buy the Joffrey theory- would he really send a sellsword with a valyrian knife all the way to Winterfell, just to be appreciated by his already appreciative mother and distant father who may or may not be pleased by it? And then he didn't even tell them so there's no way they could appreciate him for it.

No one is suggesting that Joff sent anybody to Winterfell. He was already there and simply found a hanger on who was willing to gain the Prince's favour and some gold.

I don't think Joffrey did it to impress Robert either. He did it because he idolized Robert, and wanted to be like him, but was so distant from him that he really didn't understand who Robert was. Look at the scene where he calls Tywin a coward and accuses him of hiding under Casterly Rock while Robert won the Throne?

[Cas Stark]

I agree.

I don't really get Joff as the one to hire the cat's-paw but seems like GRRM didn't want it to be Cercei for some reason. She always seemed the most likely to me.

I wonder if originally they did kill Jon Arryn and Lysa was retconned in to that too?

I wonder if he would ever say if he changed his mind, I'm more inclined to think he might have originally intended for it to be Jamie, who sent someone to finish the job, but he decided the audience would never buy the 'redemption' of someone who tried twice to kill a child. I know he says he always does his own killing and Tyrion thinks that...but in the case of Bran, he wouldn't have been able to do it himself.

I'm inclined to think he was always going to have LF behind Lysa's actions, but it's not impossible that was the Lannisters originally as well and as their role grew he diminished their evilness just a tad.

[Staenerys Stargaryen]

I agree.

I don't really get Joff as the one to hire the cat's-paw but seems like GRRM didn't want it to be Cercei for some reason. She always seemed the most likely to me.

I wonder if originally they did kill Jon Arryn and Lysa was retconned in to that too?

Littlefinger is in bed with cercei on the jon arryn thing?

He was looking into twincest right? I need to reread

[Frey family reunion]

I never did like the Joffrey solution personally. It seems to go against his character that he would give a damn about ending the suffering of another human being. And I know that it's been argued that he did it to please his "father", but a. how would his father know that Joff arranged it? b. and when has Joffrey ever been shown as going out of his way to please his "father"?

There is this weird passage in ASOS where Tyrion and Tywin go on and on about Robert's hunting knives, I'm not quite sure what to make of this passage:

"The steel was sufficient for two blades, not three. If you have need of a dagger, take one from the armory. Robert left a hundred when he died. Gerion gave him a gilded dagger with an ivory grip and a sapphire pommel for a wedding gift, and half the envoys who came to court tried to curry favor by presenting His Grace with jewel-encrusted knives and silver inlay swords."

Tyrion smiled. "They'd have pleased him more if they'd presented him with their daughters."

"No doubt. The only blade he ever used was the hunting knife he had from Jon Arryn, when he was a boy." Lord Tywin waved a hand, dismissing King Robert and all his knives.

Perhaps a clue here? :dunno:

[King Tommen Baratheon]

Book Joffrey is pretty sadistic, and not very smart. I agree that he doesn't have much of a motive to kill Bran, but he has SOME motive, more than Robert, certainly, who has none.

He just seems more like a jerky, arrogant entitled kid to me. Yes, what he did to Sansa was horrible, and deciding to execute Ned was too, but he still doesn't seem like he'd really care much about killing Bran.

[Taenqyrhae]

GRRM legitimately told you who did it twice, he really doesn't make things more definitive than that.

GRRM repeatedly has characters tell us that Ned is Jon's father. Most people don't think it's the truth.

[Cas Stark]

GRRM repeatedly has characters tell us that Ned is Jon's father. Most people don't think it's the truth.

Not really the same, because the author throws around a ton of clues for the reader about Jon. There are not really any legitimate clues for the reader that point to anyone other than Joff which make sense, even though Joff doesn't make much sense either. Jamie and Cersei make some sense, but you'd think they would be smart enough to use a different dagger, not one that can be traced back to the Lannisters, it seems hard to see how LF could orchestrate such an act from KL, Robert is not a viable suspect, he would simply never in a million years do such a thing, and that leaves the person the author points the finger at: Joff, despite him not being a very believable suspect either.

[Lord Lannister]

Jamie and Cersei make some sense, but you'd think they would be smart enough to use a different dagger, not one that can be traced back to the Lannisters

They both have POVs further down the line which seem to remove any possibility of it being them as well.

[Cas Stark]

They both have POVs further down the line which seem to remove any possibility of it being them as well.

Yeah, I think the author means for it to be Joff, I only wonder if he always meant for it to be Joff or changed his mind, since Joff as the culprit is a little strange.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

I think that as far as Joff being the culprit, for the reasons that Tyrion and Jaime both surmise, it should also not be overlooked that this would be Joff's first shot at control and murder, that in itself, I think, would have been something that also motivated Joff to hire the killer. His first taste of power, as Robert certainly did keep Joff somewhat in line, just with his presence in his life.

I do think Lysa and LF were always meant to be the Jon Arryn killers, as well as war plotters, Cat spent how many books listening to Hoster babble all the motives? LOL

[Light a wight tonight]

I can't buy the Joffrey theory- would he really send a sellsword with a valyrian knife all the way to Winterfell, just to be appreciated by his already appreciative mother and distant father who may or may not be pleased by it? And then he didn't even tell them so there's no way they could appreciate him for it. He certainly wasn't under appreciated by Cersei, and he wasn't dumb enough to think that every little thing Robert said when he was drunk was his deepest wish.

He's also just a kid. Shouting "KILL THEM ALL" or getting in a duel with a under-armed butcher's boy to impress Sansa are really a lot different from sending an assassin to go kill someone. ShowJoffrey would do that, but BookJoffrey wasn't that violent, that evil, that sadistic, or even that proactive.

I can't buy Robert doing it either, but it makes a little more sense than Joffrey. I doubt we'll ever know.

Is there any possibility it was LF?

Joff didn't send anyone anywhere. The arrangement was made while Robert's party was still in Winterfell. The place where the assassin was sleeping in the stable after Robert left was found. No matter who hired the guy he was already there. And I don't think that the assassin was identified as a sellsword, just some hanger-on who had attached himself to the royal party. When you start making assertions you might think about getting the facts straight.