[Book Spoliers]Will Trystane Martell be the TV show version of Young Griff?

[Jon Icefyre]

Okay so ever since the season 5 trailer came out I've sorta been all over the web reading reactions and speculations for what's to come moving forward in the show. One of the big things I noticed doing so was the clear disappointment from a lot of book readers concerning the lack of a Young Griff/Aegon casting in season 5. Some think this means he won't be on the show at all and therefore has a meaningless arc in the books. Others think maybe perhaps he will be cast in season 6 and everything is still going to plan. Now obviously there are good arguments to be made by both sides and I've read a few on here, but earlier today I came across a very intriguing theory on another site concerning what Tystane Martell's purpose might be on the TV show. The theory is that Trystane Martell won’t actually be Doran’s son in the show at all. Instead, he’ll be revealed to be the alleged Aegon Targaryen – fostered in secret under the care of his uncle Doran rather than his father’s best friend Jon Connington, but groomed for the same purpose. Here's the explanation of the theory quoted:

"1. Combing “Trystane” and “Aegon” into one person streamlines the narrative by consolidating Aegon’s forces with Dorne’s, and maintains Dorne’s clear motivation for supporting Aegon’s claim to the Iron Throne. This is a development that the books may be heading towards in The Winds of Winter anyway if Arianne and Aegon are in line to broker an alliance, as the sample chapter hints. It would also explain why Arianne has not been cast – if Aegon has been under Doran’s protect this whole time, then there’s no reason for the two of them to negotiate an alliance. And if Arianne’s primary purpose in the novels is to negotiate that alliance, then (sadly) there’s little reason for her to exist on the show.

2. It allows Varys and Doran’s objectives to remain more or less intact while consolidating their schemes into a single formidable conspiracy. Doran wants to get revenge on the Lannisters by bringing “fire and blood” back to Westeros. Varys wants to place someone on the throne who will understand how rule because it’s his duty to serve the realm, not because it’s his birthright. “Trystane”/”Aegon” can accomplish both objectives. The only complication could be if Aegon is truly a Blackfyre, but Varys could have kept that knowledge from Doran. Alternatively, the potential Blackfyre aspect could be dropped from the show, and Aegon could simply be a random boy that Varys has cultivated to serve his purpose.

3. Casting Doran in the role of Aegon’s protector and mentor removes the need to cast Jon Connington and explain his motivations. Obviously Connington is a cool character and it would be a shame to lose him, but at this point it’s a given that concessions and cuts have to be made. Furthermore, while some may not like it, there is a logical justification for why Varys might place “Aegon” under the protection of his supposed uncle in the show, rather than his father’s exiled friend.

4. Removing “Aegon” from Tyrion’s arc would enable him to reach Meereen faster, thereby allowing the show to accelerate that plotline. It could possibly even give them time to fit the Battle of Meeren into Season 5 if the budget allows. Obviously this muddles up Tyrion’s storyline a bit, but it’s plausible that Varys’s intentions in sending Tyrion to Meereen could still be for Tyrion to retrieve Daenerys, with the plan being to arrange a marriage between her and Aegon once she arrives. This would have the added benefit of setting Daenerys up to sail for Westeros much sooner than she will in the novels."

Now, I don't know if this theory has already been shared and talked about on this site since I literally just came back on this site this morning for the first time in months. But if you haven't read this theory yet, I would love to know what you guys think!

[MiniMitch]

Possibly

• They may do it in order to add less complexity to Varys's character. Just make him be a supporter of Dany like has be said since Season 1. Just keeping it simple a streamlimed
  
• Or they could have him a Vary's trump card, like it is in the book, but he's in Dorne to save the time of the pointless travel round Essos. Dunno why he would then say to Tyrion "Who says anything about him?" - But we don't know what context that's in. It's use the in trailer will probably be totally different to how it is actually used.
  

I've always thought that if he is real, or is 110% vital to the plot of the books, then they can include him in Season 6, when Tyrion goes on a mission for Dany (or to find her).

If he's cut, doesn't mean he's not essential to the plot. They could be any number of reasons why he is cut - time constraints? TV shows don't have the same amount of time a book has to explain or show something. So say in the TV show Dany ends up on the Iron Throne, that could happen in the book, after some big stuff happens with Aegon.

But all I'm saying if is cut, don't presume it a loss cause. He could yet still appear in Season 6 or is cut for some reason or another, as I mentioned above.

I like to add here that a couple of people have suggested the idea GRRM told HBO a different ending to the book, for some reason or another, and the books will turn out completely different to the show (which they will anyway).

[Alex Storm]

I would really love this idea if R+L != J. Since most people seem think of R+L=J as a fact, then I think it would really diminish the reveal of Jon's parents later in the story.

That being said, even if that R+L=J is true, I still think this would be a much better idea than having Varys just be a Dany supporter from the get go. It would make sense that Dorne didn't get involved in the Wot5k as they were waiting for Trystane/Aegon to get older and it would make sense that Varys would trust Doran since they are both very patient people.

Also, another piece of evidence that Trystane might be Aegon is that the actor they casted for him seems to be much "whiter" than the other Latino Dornish characters. Also, since they cut Dorans other kids from the show, maybe they'll just go with the angle that Doran or his wife aren't able to have any kids.

[Jon Icefyre]

Possibly

• They may do it in order to add less complexity to Varys's character. Just make him be a supporter of Dany like has be said since Season 1. Just keeping it simple a streamlimed
• Or they could have him a Vary's trump card, like it is in the book, but he's in Dorne to save the time of the pointless travel round Essos. Dunno why he would then say to Tyrion "Who says anything about him?" - But we don't know what context that's in. It's use the in trailer will probably be totally different to how it is actually used.

I've always thought that if he is real, or is 110% vital to the plot of the books, then they can include him in Season 6, when Tyrion goes on a mission for Dany (or to find her).

If he's cut, doesn't mean he's not essential to the plot. They could be any number of reasons why he is cut - time constraints? TV shows don't have the same amount of time a book has to explain or show something. So say in the TV show Dany ends up on the Iron Throne, that could happen in the book, after some big stuff happens with Aegon.

But all I'm saying if is cut, don't presume it a loss cause. He could yet still appear in Season 6 or is cut for some reason or another, as I mentioned above.

I like to add here that a couple of people have suggested the idea GRRM told HBO a different ending to the book, for some reason or another, and the books will turn out completely different to the show (which they will anyway).

I would really love this idea if R+L != J. Since most people seem think of R+L=J as a fact, then I think it would really diminish the reveal of Jon's parents later in the story.

That being said, even if that R+L=J is true, I still think this would be a much better idea than having Varys just be a Dany supporter from the get go. It would make sense that Dorne didn't get involved in the Wot5k as they were waiting for Trystane/Aegon to get older and it would make sense that Varys would trust Doran since they are both very patient people.

Also, another piece of evidence that Trystane might be Aegon is that the actor they casted for him seems to be much "whiter" than the other Latino Dornish characters. Also, since they cut Dorans other kids from the show, maybe they'll just go with the angle that Doran or his wife aren't able to have any kids.

Indeed let's also keep in mind that even if this theory is correct it still doesn't confirm that 'Aegon' is real. Varys could've just as easily lied to Doran about the baby swap, the same way he would be doing to Jon Connington in the books if Aegon really is a fake. So the same real or fake question the books present, would still be in play for the show as well. Also real or fake, I don't agree that it would diminsh the reveal of R+L=J. The difference between Aegon and Jon is everyone knew who Aegons was, they knew who his parents were, they just think Aegon is dead. None of the characters alive(other than Howland) or the show only viewers, knows a child from Rhaegar&Lyanna ever existed. They don't know the real reason Ned Stark claims he impregnated another woman and then insisted that the child be raised at Winterfell with his other legitmate children to the disdain of his wife. They aren't aware yet of how complex the rebellion that led to fall of House Targayen was. Ned Stark was without a doubt the biggest character of season one and the consensus on him is that he was a dutiful, loving, honorable, honest, merciful, man who died because he could not adapt to the cut throat, deceitful, shrewd politics of KL. When in a way, Lord Eddard Stark was playing, "the game" better than all of them.

He was a leading figurehead in the rebel cause during the rebellion. He helped put Robert Baratheon on the throne, wintnessed Robert slay "the last dragon", faught beside him in the Greyjoy rebellion, and was his best friend, most trusted friend. To the viewers House Tagaryen is responsible for the death of Ned's father, brother, and sister, and yet in secret Ned had been harboring the child of the Targaryen Robert hated the most, raising that child as his own? Oh and did we mention the woman Bran in the show says Robert went to war over and claimed to be madly in love with even 17 years after her death, was Jon's mother/Ned's sister? No dangerous 'game' in KL the characters were attemtpting to get Ned Stark to play, was more dangerous than the game he had already been playing for the last 17 years prior and during season one. Finding out that revelation would blow viewer's minds. While no one can deny there would obviously be some similarities between the Jon&Aegon indentity deception, the thing that seperates them is that Aegon's reveal would be more about him still being alive, while Jon's would open up a multitutde of different character revelations and backstories the viewers were unaware had ever even existed. Jon's revelation would be just as much about who his parents weren't(Ned stark not being his father and fooling everyone to the end), as it would be about who his parents were(Rhaegar&Lyanna).

I actually think if done right the Aegon revelation could actually enhance the R+L=J one, in the sense that Varys orchestrated the Aegon scheme, he's seen as the all-knowing master of whisperer who knows what you're thinking even before you think it. Varys advised Ned Stark on the proper way to play the game, and after his death he talked to others(Tyrion) about how Ned's inabilty to do so was his downfall. Yet in the end lord Stark was keeping a similar type of secrete that Varys was, and he was keeping it from virtually eveyone including Varys himself. If the show first makes it so Trystanne is revealed to be Aegon who is then revealed to be a fake and then only after that they reveal R+L=LJ, one could conclude that the all-knwoing Varys was outfoxed by the honest honrable Ned Stark. As Ned Stark would've be the only one of the two who hid a true legitimate son of Rhaegar. The reaction Varys has to that irony alone would make for awesome television. But again even if Aegon is real(which I doubt he is), R+L=J would still be an explosive revelation in knowing Jon is actually royalty and a legitimate heir of Rhaegar's.

[imaginepageant]

As I said in the discussion about this on another thread, I love the idea and hope they go this way with Aegon. It makes all kinds of sense, explaining why Arianne and Quentyn were cut, streamlining the entire Aegon storyline, and bringing him in sooner rather than later. It's a great way to work Aegon into the show.

As for R+L=J, since there haven't been many hints to it in the show, revealing Trystane is actually a Targaryen raised by his mother's brother would be perfect foreshadowing and preparation for Unsullied audiences to learn about R+L=J later on.

[El Guapo]

Honestly I think people are way overthinking the apparent exclusion of Aegon from the show. Trystane is going to be Trystane. Personally I think he is going to take on more of Quentyn's role in that Doran's master plan is to marry him off to Dany (he just won't travel to Meereen).

[Alex Storm]

Honestly I think people are way overthinking the apparent exclusion of Aegon from the show.

We just want to know that Varys has been playing the "game" and not just hoping on a miracle that Dany survives the dothraki sea and slaverys bay. Excluding Aegon or some Trystane/Aegon combo hurts Varys' character in my opinion.

[iiandyiiii]

Really like this idea. The show necessarily can't have as many locations and storylines as the books -- this combines Aegon's story with the Dorne story (and we already know Jaime's story is wrapped into Dorne as well), and presumably gets Tyrion (and probably Jorah) to Daenerys (and her storyline) much quicker.

It makes me wonder what other storylines could somehow be wrapped into another for the show -- could Victarion's story somehow merge with Stannis and the North, or will it just be postponed or cut? Is Sansa's story going to merge with the North? Where will Brienne fit in? Can't wait to see -- I actually enjoy the differences in the show, as long as they're done well and thoughtfully.

[Caesar Targaryen]

I really like this theory and it would explain why Trystane has such a large role in the series as opposed to the books and would like it to happen, but at the same time I feel that if I get my hopes up too high that this is true, it won't, which there is also the possibility.

In addition, I was baffled by Varys telling Tyrion to go find Dany for him in the Season 5 trailer, since he's basically on Team Blackfyre in the books and supports (f)Aegon's claim to the throne. But I then thought maybe he's doing it to broker a marriage between Dany and (f)Aegon (assuming some form of him is in the series) since she has dragons. So if this theory is true, maybe he is trying to broker a marriage between Trystane/(f)Aegon and Dany, which raises some questions. Is Doran in on this, and if so, why would he agree to betroth Trystane/(f)Aegon to Myrcella when he's got Dany as a potential wife for Trystane/(f)Aegon?

[Alex Storm]

I really like this theory and it would explain why Trystane has such a large role in the series as opposed to the books and would like it to happen, but at the same time I feel that if I get my hopes up too high that this is true, it won't, which there is also the possibility.

In addition, I was baffled by Varys telling Tyrion to go find Dany for him in the Season 5 trailer, since he's basically on Team Blackfyre in the books and supports (f)Aegon's claim to the throne. But I then thought maybe he's doing it to broker a marriage between Dany and (f)Aegon (assuming some form of him is in the series) since she has dragons. So if this theory is true, maybe he is trying to broker a marriage between Trystane/(f)Aegon and Dany, which raises some questions. Is Doran in on this, and if so, why would he agree to betroth Trystane/(f)Aegon to Myrcella when he's got Dany as a potential wife for Trystane/(f)Aegon?

Well maybe he really didn't have a choice. He wouldn't want to raise suspicion that he had other plans for Trystane/Aegon so when Tyrion offered him a princess, he couldn't really refuse.

[Jon Icefyre]

I really like this theory and it would explain why Trystane has such a large role in the series as opposed to the books and would like it to happen, but at the same time I feel that if I get my hopes up too high that this is true, it won't, which there is also the possibility.

In addition, I was baffled by Varys telling Tyrion to go find Dany for him in the Season 5 trailer, since he's basically on Team Blackfyre in the books and supports (f)Aegon's claim to the throne. But I then thought maybe he's doing it to broker a marriage between Dany and (f)Aegon (assuming some form of him is in the series) since she has dragons. So if this theory is true, maybe he is trying to broker a marriage between Trystane/(f)Aegon and Dany, which raises some questions. Is Doran in on this, and if so, why would he agree to betroth Trystane/(f)Aegon to Myrcella when he's got Dany as a potential wife for Trystane/(f)Aegon?

Well I mean the books made it pretty clear that Varys now wants Aegon to marry Dany, because whether he's real or not there will always be doubts about his legitimacy. There are no such doubts about Dany, "The Mother of Dragons" though, so even though Varys is on team Aegon(Blackfyre or not) the moment Dany proved herself a true conquering monarch(who awoken 3 dragons), Varys knew at that point he needed Aegon to marry Dany because once he does that, all doubts about Aegon's legitimacy will be gone seeing as though Dany accepting him as Aegon and as her husband would pretty much validate his claim as Aegon Targaryen to the rest of the realm. Varys's endgame is now wedding Aegon to Dany, and if Trystane is Aegon in the show then Varys will have that same agenda. If the theory is correct then Varys most definitely means to use Tyrion as a tool in negotiating a marriage between Dany&Trystane/Aegon.

As far as the show goes, again if the theory is correct then Doran is most definitely in on it. Remember according to the early info that we know about the season 5 plot Myrcella will be a few years younger than Trystane and they are waiting for her to come of age before preceeding with the wedding. Doran is a patient man who plays the long game, which means he knew the age difference would play a factor in how long it would take for them to actually get married when he originally agreed to betroth Trystane to Myrcella, remember the union was Tyrion's idea not Doran's. Up until that point Dorne hadn't officially chosen a side in TWOTFK so refusing Tyrion's offer might've made Dorne look suspiciousn in the Lannister's eyes(who rejects a princess?), at the very least it would've suggested they weren't siding with the Lannisters. If you're Doran what better way to keep the Lannisters blinded towards your true agenda than to agree to a marriage? Doran knew the engagement would be for years to come until they made it official with a wedding, which would give him time to wait and see how the events would unfold across the narrow sea with Dany.

Also Varys tells Tyrion there's a war coming if Doran is in on it then he's known another war would eventually come along as well. The war Varys is referring to is obviously Dany making her move on Westeros which would put her and her allies(Dorne)directly against the Lannisters. Again, if you're Doran falsely agreeing to wed Trystane to Myrcella is brillant. Not only does it keep the Lannisters off your true purpose, but it also means Myrcella will be kept in Dorne under Doran's supervision until the actual wedding, thus insuring he will have a valuable Lannister hostage come war time. What goes around always eventually comes around Cersei spent two seasons torturing Sansa as her hostage, so imagine the irony in Cersei dealing with Myrcella being a war hostage in Dorne once Dany and orTrystane make their move(if the theory is true)? The tv show Doran would've never had any true intentions of actually marrying Trystane to Myrcella, but their engagement would make for a nice distraction while Dorne waits for Dany to make her move don't you think?

[oprahnoodlemantra]

Why can't Dorne back Myrcella instead of another Targaryen? Myrcella can be against her family because they sent her away and she's all in love with Trystane.

[Jon Icefyre]

Why can't Dorne back Myrcella instead of another Targaryen? Myrcella can be against her family because they sent her away and she's all in love with Trystane.

Because if the theory is correct then there's no way Dorne would be able to justify backing a girl who will be labelled by her enemies as a Lannister bastard as Trystane/Aegon's wife over Danaerys Targayren(who has three dragons), it's really that simple. Myrcella is a nice girl, but nice girls don't win wars and backing Myrcella would put Dorne against not only her family, but Danaerys as well when she makes it to Westeros. Sorry but logically speaking there's no way in hell they'd survive that.....If Trystane is indeed revealed to be Aegon, they're gonna try to get him to marry Dany. Dany won't settle for anything less than Queen, and even though by law Aegon has the better claim, in order to leave no doubt that his identity is 100% validated throughout the realm, he'll need Dany's acknowledgement at some point.

[biosnake20]

I've always loved this theory, hopefully it comes true.

[Ramsay's Penguins]

Trystanes claim comes through Dany the First and Maron Martell. Hightowerrs, Plumms, Penroses all have that Targ blood too.

I really don't think so the claim is to far removed and he's a Martell not a Targaryen. No one in the riverlands will support him Targ blood or no, and especially not reach or stormlords.

[Jon Icefyre]

Trystanes claim comes through Dany the First and Maron Martell. Hightowerrs, Plumms, Penroses all have that Targ blood too.

I really don't think so the claim is to far removed and he's a Martell not a Targaryen. No one in the riverlands will support him Targ blood or no, and especially not reach or stormlords.

Ummm did you miss the part about the theory that states the TV show version of Trystane will have an arc that replaces Young Griff/Aegon's arc in the books lol? The whole point of this thread is discussing that fact that if the theory is correct then Trystane Martell won't actually be Trystane Martell. He'll be Aegon Targaryen as in the son of Elia&Rhaegar Targaryen who's has been hidden all these years under a false identity by his uncle Doran and Varys in a plan to eventually reveal his identity marry him to Dany and put them both on the throne. If he's revealed to be Aegon Targaryen then by law he would have the best claim, I'm not really seeing what point you're trying to make, when the very basis of this theory is that Trystane won't have the exact same arc he had in the books and instead will be given Young Griff/Aegon's story arc from the books seeing as though HBO can only afford to cast a certain amount of characters, therefore they compensate for that fact by giving one character a combination of story arcs that belonged to multiple characters from the books that way they can still get all the neccesary plot points from the books shown on the TV show. Of course if he's actually Trystane Martell then he doesn't have a good claim. But the whole point is that he won't actually be Trystane Martell in the show. Fully re-read the OP lol..Have you not read ADWD?

[Boudica]

The whole Aegon story have always seemed very similar to the story of Perkin Warbeck, he might just be a complete fraud as in not even a Blackfyre. The whole Blackfyre rebellion aren't even mentioned that much in books themselves. Even in the books it seems a bit over the top to have two potentially hidden sons of Rheagar.

Trystane does not have to be the hidden Aegon, he could make a claim through Myrcella or through his own Targaryen heritage. If the Baratheons where able to conquer and lay claim to the throne because of a minor Targaryen bloodline then the Martell's can do the same. The important part is the actual conquering. This might actually be a better story line then having another hidden prince, and the Martell's might still want Dany as a bride for Trystane, as it would obviously only strengthen his claim, and she does have dragons, or Trystane could just stick with Myrcella, and try to conquer the iron throne.

[Kasakka]

Honestly I think people are way overthinking the apparent exclusion of Aegon from the show. Trystane is going to be Trystane. Personally I think he is going to take on more of Quentyn's role in that Doran's master plan is to marry him off to Dany (he just won't travel to Meereen).

Exactly, Trystane will be taking Arianne's role in one way or another. He will be wed to either Myrcella or Dany.

[ni2tre]

If a specific Aegon is not cast, I hope this theory is true though a bit far fetched. One more to thing to add to this theory is that Toby Sebastian who will play Trystane looks kinda Targaeryen-ish.

[Lord of the Twins]

In the books, for a new Dance of the Dragons, we need a dragon to get to Aegon's side somehow. It is entirely possible that in the books it goes Daenerys->Victarion/Euron->Aegon (In Westeros) (my guess here is Rhaegal). In the show, to do the same, Trystane would have to take Quentyn's role, but live and succeed at dragon taming.

Alternatively, if Tyrion rides Viserion, and subsequently defects to Aegon (one of Daenerys's three treasons), he could do the same in the same in the show.

I would guess that both of these end up being true with who rides these dragons. So I think they combine the Quentyn/Aegon trip to marry Daenerys to one person, Trystane, who is rejected, tames a dragon and returns to Westeros ahead of Daenerys in the show.