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Did anybody else notice the amount of inbreeding in the Stark Family Tree?



I expected the Starks to be related to all of the North's major families, but they are probably the most inter-bred family, especially if you include the Karstarks, outside of the Targaryens.



If R + L = J, Jon Snow is the most Stark and mostest Targaryen alive. Primogeniture and secret 2nd marriage and King Robb's last will and testament in Bryndyn Blackfish's undies, plus Stannis's own claim, through Robert, bastard Orys and Egg's daughter Rhaelle, mean an interesting potential abdication. Unless Stannis demands Jon wed Shireen.



It's probably naught, but it is interesting that the Starks contracted their recent generations while the Targaryens did the same, with cousin marriages of splinter heirs and the consolidation of the familys' lands and titles.



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Has anyone noticed the amount of inbreeding in real life noble/royal families?

Nobles breed with nobles. Cousins marry cousins. Surely you guys noticed Jaime and Cersei are inbred themselves. It's only immediate family relations where Westerosi people get really aggrovated about it.

Case in point; Joanna Lannister, Tywin's wife?

She was Joanna Lannister before they married. They're cousins by blood.

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There's never been a ruling Lady Stark or Queen of Winter (based on a SSM) - so quite a few of the Stark-Stark marriages seem to be about passing the lordship through the previous lord's daughter (if she has no brothers) to her Stark cousin/uncle by marrying them to each other. Not so for Rickard and Lyarra.

ETA: suppose that's necessary if we're to believe the family has survived for 8,000 years... It was either that, or having non-Stark husbands take the Stark name.

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Did anybody else notice the amount of inbreeding in the Stark Family Tree?

I expected the Starks to be related to all of the North's major families, but they are probably the most inter-bred family, especially if you include the Karstarks, outside of the Targaryens.

If R + L = J, Jon Snow is the most Stark and mostest Targaryen alive. Primogeniture and secret 2nd marriage and King Robb's last will and testament in Bryndyn Blackfish's undies, plus Stannis's own claim, through Robert, bastard Orys and Egg's daughter Rhaelle, mean an interesting potential abdication. Unless Stannis demands Jon wed Shireen.

It's probably naught, but it is interesting that the Starks contracted their recent generations while the Targaryens did the same, with cousin marriages of splinter heirs and the consolidation of the familys' lands and titles.

Cregan's Stark wife has an unknown relationship to him right?

2 of Cregan's grandsons married his two grandaughters as they had different mothers. So that is 2nd cousins from a different grandmother?

Then there is Lyarra and Rickard. Seems like they grew up together. There is no cadet from Rodrik that the oldest girl would have inherited, nor the other 2 Stark boys from Artos either where we have no family listed, Night's Watch? So I would expect Lyarra and Rickard grew up together in Winterfell. The Starks keep their family very tight and lean, probably a northern trait because of the Winters.

I have deep suspicions Jon and Arya will be next. Not only is she the wild girl he compares all the girls he finds hot to, it would honour Ned and mean his children would be Ned's grandchildren as if he was actually his father. The Targ sister loving and Stark cousin tradition can be seen to point this way.

That is nowhere near Targ levels of incest. Targs were marrying brother and sister generation after generation and if there were no brothers and sisters they married Velaryon cousins who were as Targ blooded as you can get. If your Auntie married a Velaryon and you marry her daughter, how much Velaryon blood is left in your kids?

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I like the way you guys think. Not that I agree entirely, but you have interesting points.



SFK299 and Wordsmith1, I guess you could say that we knew about the Targs' incest and the Lannisters' pretty early on. My point is that people have been trying t put this Stark tree together for 18 years and then Blammo! the Starks are diddling each other. I don't buy it that cousin weddings are all that common in Westeros, given the potential for alliances and such. Certainly, Southrons would have better choices, even if there are so many lines back to Garth Greenhand or Lann the Clever or Durran Godsgrief etc that they are all cousins.



Lord Pepsi and AryaNymeriaVisenya, you've hit upon something there. No Queen in the North or Dragon Queen has ruled on their own. Is this likely to have repercussions for Sansa and Dany? It seems that Stark female heirs were obliged to marry within their own house, but perhaps the Starks were keeping their bloodlines close for the purposes of warging? Similarly, the Targaryens believed it was their family bloodlines that enabled them to ride dragons. Eddard behaved very strangely when finding the direwolf pups. Certainly he was struck by the omens, but what if he saw more than that and he had reason to gift the cubs to the children beyond the willingness of his boys? Was Benjen's reason for taking the black the fact that he's a warg too?



I'm sure I'm not the first to speculate about this because people have been posting theories for over a decade about similar stuff, but I definitely think that the family trees have much and more yet to be puzzled out.

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I think the Rickard/Lyarra marriage will prove to be a bond made to heal a family rift from TSWOW.


Rickard is the grandson of Willam Stark & Melantha Blackwood. Lyarra is the daughter of Willam's brother Roderick Stark & Arya Flint. I think some rift occurred during the upcoming novella that required the two factions of the Stark family to be reunited. Perhaps Roderick & Arya insisted that their daughter be married back into the ruling branch of the family after Melantha did indeed get a son to avenge her. I think the story will be that after Willams death Roderick usurps Mellantha's daughter (who eventually ends up married to a Royce) but as Melantha is pregnant at the time she goes to the godswood and prays for a son (Bran's vision) so that she can get her position as lady of Winterfell back. After Edwyle is born Roderick has to concede he is not rightful lord and step aide for his nephew. But years later when he eventually has a daughter I think he and Arya Flint insisted their daughter be wed to Edwyle's son Rickard.


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Did anybody else notice the amount of inbreeding in the Stark Family Tree?

I expected the Starks to be related to all of the North's major families, but they are probably the most inter-bred family, especially if you include the Karstarks, outside of the Targaryens.

If R + L = J, Jon Snow is the most Stark and mostest Targaryen alive. Primogeniture and secret 2nd marriage and King Robb's last will and testament in Bryndyn Blackfish's undies, plus Stannis's own claim, through Robert, bastard Orys and Egg's daughter Rhaelle, mean an interesting potential abdication. Unless Stannis demands Jon wed Shireen.

It's probably naught, but it is interesting that the Starks contracted their recent generations while the Targaryens did the same, with cousin marriages of splinter heirs and the consolidation of the familys' lands and titles.

The amount of incest in the Ptolemaic dynasty can make even the Targaryens blush.

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I have noticed that the amount of Inbreeding amongst the Targs is less prominent than I expected. The last known example of Targcest, Aerys and Rhaella for example, happened not due to preservation of ancient Valyrian customs but rather for the sole reason of fulfilling a prophecy.

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I have noticed that the amount of Inbreeding amongst the Targs is less prominent than I expected. The last known example of Targcest, Aerys and Rhaella for example, happened not due to preservation of ancient Valyrian customs but rather for the sole reason of fulfilling a prophecy.

Well that's the thing with the later-day Targs - from what we can tell, once the dragons were gone, the motivation/justification for incestuous marriage became purely political, and potentially even the real reason for it was forgotten. Once that happened, there was a lot more room for political marriages outside the fam.

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