PhD research: Types of fans

[Inevittable]

I would be grateful if you could take some time to join this discussion to help me gather data for my thesis. There is a thread here which you are very welcome to join to discuss the research project or ask questions.

Types of fans

Here are a few questions to kick-start the discussion, but please do just let the conversation flow and respond to others’ responses as well.

How do you judge how ‘good’ of a Game of Thrones or A Song of Ice and Fire fan someone is?

How do you think you compare to other fans?

Do you think there is such a thing as a “casual fan”, “anti-fan”, “non-fan”, “true fan” or “super fan”?

What would mark someone out as one of these?

Have you noticed any changes in the ‘quality’ of fans on this forum since the TV show started?

Some small print...

I am currently studying towards a PhD in Media, Culture and Communication at Keele University. My project title is An online ethnography of the fan community of the A Song of Ice and Fire novels and the Game of Thrones television adaptation and my aim is to investigate the history and current practices of the fan community of A Song of Ice and Fire and Game of Thrones.

With the permission of the owners of this website I am initiating this thread to try and encourage discussion about the topic described above. This topic is just one part of a much larger research project, and you may notice other threads around the forum.

An information sheet is available here, which will hopefully address any questions you may have about the research. The information sheet contains information about the research process, and also information about how your posts to this thread will be used. You are under no obligation to take part, however your help in the project would be much appreciated.

By posting in this thread you are agreeing to the statements on the consent sheet which is part of the information sheet linked to above. By posting in the thread you are agreeing that you are over 18.

If you have any queries please let me know.

Many thanks,

Inevittable

[BigFatCoward]

Have you noticed any changes in the ‘quality’ of fans on this forum since the TV show started?

yes.

without meaning to sound snarky is this really something you can do a phd in?

[Mish Windage]

casual fanatic sounds funny

[all swedes are racist]

My level of, uh, fan-ness varies, depending on my work load, what I'm currently reading/watching, news regarding series, etc. in general, I find my immersion in any particular thing, such as ASOIAF, tends to come in cycles.

Oscillates, if you will.

[Inevittable]

without meaning to sound snarky is this really something you can do a phd in?

Yep.

casual fanatic sounds funny

Like an oxymoron?

[Bluetiger]

Shame that I'm below 18 :(

[Inevittable]

Shame that I'm below 18 :(

Ah. The perils of the internet (and university research ethics panels)!

[Inevittable]

Hello all.

I'm hoping a gentle thread bump will stimulate some conversation here as I'm about to start some work on the thesis chapter that these questions relate to.

[The Mance]

Do you have any questions that are less sanctimonious and judgmental? I mean, obviously there are gong to be gradients of interest and enjoyment among fans of a particular work, but i would really hope that no one would use that to apply such subjective labels as 'good' 'bad' or 'super'.

eta: I guess its not the questions that are sanctimonious, but they are sure begging for answers that are.

[Larry of the Lawn]

I would be grateful if you could take some time to join this discussion to help me gather data for my thesis. There is a thread here which you are very welcome to join to discuss the research project or ask questions.

Types of fans

Here are a few questions to kick-start the discussion, but please do just let the conversation flow and respond to others’ responses as well.

How do you judge how ‘good’ of a Game of Thrones or A Song of Ice and Fire fan someone is?

How do you think you compare to other fans?

Do you think there is such a thing as a “casual fan”, “anti-fan”, “non-fan”, “true fan” or “super fan”?

What would mark someone out as one of these?

Have you noticed any changes in the ‘quality’ of fans on this forum since the TV show started?

Some small print...

I am currently studying towards a PhD in Media, Culture and Communication at Keele University. My project title is An online ethnography of the fan community of the A Song of Ice and Fire novels and the Game of Thrones television adaptation and my aim is to investigate the history and current practices of the fan community of A Song of Ice and Fire and Game of Thrones.

With the permission of the owners of this website I am initiating this thread to try and encourage discussion about the topic described above. This topic is just one part of a much larger research project, and you may notice other threads around the forum.

An information sheet is available here, which will hopefully address any questions you may have about the research. The information sheet contains information about the research process, and also information about how your posts to this thread will be used. You are under no obligation to take part, however your help in the project would be much appreciated.

By posting in this thread you are agreeing to the statements on the consent sheet which is part of the information sheet linked to above. By posting in the thread you are agreeing that you are over 18.

If you have any queries please let me know.

Many thanks,

Inevittable

I wonder if you'd have better luck with this in the TV or Books threads? Most of the people that post here aren't here to talk about the books or show so it's kind of hard to say. I mean ASoIaF is what brought everyone to this forum but in Gen Chat there isn't much discussion of either series.

eta: I don't think I've posted about ASoIaF in the last two years except maybe trolling the book threads while intoxicated to rile up the locals, more or less on a quarterly basis, probably more or less aligning with the solstices and equinoxes.

[Errant Bard]

I understand the question, but I cannot grasp the underlying concept: being a fan of one series is not based on performance, how would it be possible to measure/judge that on such a simplistic scale, especially when the data you have on other people is so severely limited?

You would have more luck in the books or GOT forums, simply because more people post there, but then again I have never seen judgement about the "fan-ness" there, only about the opinions... Closest I can think of would be the lit forums about fans of a genre (you know, asking for a rec of something similar to got marks you as pretty casual reader of Fantasy, most of the time)

[Neumond]

I think you can´t fill distinct boxes with a certain kind of fan.

I have the feeling your questions are far to simple.

Sometimes you have the time to spend on asoiaf and sometimes you don´t... Sometimes you want to spend time on it and sometimes you don´t.

It fluctuates kind of.

But if you want to generalize so badly. I hope you´re not treating this forum as a random sample. I would say everyone posting here is probably pretty involved with the series. So if your intention isn´t to ask "super fans" if they think they are super fans or not, I hope you have other sample populations up your sleeve.

I wish you the best of luck.

[Pebble thats Stubby]

I consider a good fan as someone who is respectful of the creators be it George or those working on the show. ie don't harrass George about when the next book is coming out, or speculate on his health. Or hate an actor because of their charater or changes to their role from the book. A Good fan understands that the show will be different to the books and are respectful when dissagreeing with those changes. A good fan is also someone who is respectful to others who have not watched/read the books and doesn't reveal spoilers.

A Bad fan is someone who well does then things a good fan won't do.

Not sure thats the answer you where looking for.

hmm a Casual fan is someone who watches the show because its on and they are in/have nothing better to do. or reads one of the books then maybe will get round to reading the next at some point in the future. they are not eagally anticiating the next installment book/episode. they might talk about it causally with friends after an episode is aired but not in any depth and probably not with much speculation as to what will happen next.

A real fan spends more time thinking about the books or show. If they are a show fan then they will make sure to watch it live or ensure they are recording it. (or buy the dvd/blueray sometimes all three) They will antipate things and eagerly await the next installment. (maybe inpatiently) They may not talk about it with others or read/post about it on the internet, but they will have their own theories. they will re-watch the show or re-read the books.

A fan of the books does not have to be a fan of the show and vice versa.

[Inevittable]

Do you have any questions that are less sanctimonious and judgmental? I mean, obviously there are gong to be gradients of interest and enjoyment among fans of a particular work, but i would really hope that no one would use that to apply such subjective labels as 'good' 'bad' or 'super'.

eta: I guess its not the questions that are sanctimonious, but they are sure begging for answers that are.

I understand the question, but I cannot grasp the underlying concept: being a fan of one series is not based on performance, how would it be possible to measure/judge that on such a simplistic scale, especially when the data you have on other people is so severely limited?

You would have more luck in the books or GOT forums, simply because more people post there, but then again I have never seen judgement about the "fan-ness" there, only about the opinions... Closest I can think of would be the lit forums about fans of a genre (you know, asking for a rec of something similar to got marks you as pretty casual reader of Fantasy, most of the time)

I think you can´t fill distinct boxes with a certain kind of fan.

I have the feeling your questions are far to simple.

Sometimes you have the time to spend on asoiaf and sometimes you don´t... Sometimes you want to spend time on it and sometimes you don´t.

It fluctuates kind of.

But if you want to generalize so badly. I hope you´re not treating this forum as a random sample. I would say everyone posting here is probably pretty involved with the series. So if your intention isn´t to ask "super fans" if they think they are super fans or not, I hope you have other sample populations up your sleeve.

I wish you the best of luck.

Thanks guys. Apologies for coming across as "sanctimonious and judgemental", that wasn't my intent. Indeed the quote marks we supposed to indicate that those labels of "good" or "bad" fan aren't necessarily the best way to categorise levels of a fan's engagement with the show or with other fans. One of the most contested areas of theory in fan studies is how to describe these levels, so it's no surprise to find out that I used terminology that grated on some people.

Nevertheless, yours are actually very relevant and useful responses to the questions that I posted, and exactly the type of discussion I'd like to involve you in. So, Mance, you said there that there are "gradients of engagement and enjoyment": what sorts of activities (from your perspective) are on that gradient (for example discussing the show at work, producing fan art, going to a con etc). And if you hope that no one would apply such labels as "good" and "bad" what do you think is more appropriate? Where would you put yourself on that gradient? Have you ever come across an occurance where someone has called another a "bad" fan or not a "real" fan?

Errant Bard, you asked how it would be possible to judge a fan on a simplistic scale. "With great difficulty!" is my answer. But, examples exist of people demonstrating perspectives on judging fans - take these few memes as examples from the world of music http://tinyurl.com/olhfeah or journalism

Neumond, thanks for your responses. No, my intention is not to view this forum as a group of super fans and ask them if they think they are super fans. I hoped to ask a group of individuals of varying "levels" of engagement how they judge/evaluate other fans, and whether they thought that it's possible to label certain fans in certain ways depending on the ways that they engage with the show or each other.

Hugging Pebble, thanks for your response, it was very informative.

If anyone would like to contact me directly and participate in an email interview, in which your answers will be kept anonymous, please do IM me or get in touch via Twitter or my blog.

[AverageGuy]

How do you think you compare to other fans?

How do I personally compare to other fans of ASOIAF, or how do ASOIAF fans in general compare to fansof other series, like, say, The Sword of Truth?

[Inevittable]

How do I personally compare to other fans of ASOIAF, or how do ASOIAF fans in general compare to fansof other series, like, say, The Sword of Truth?

I was asking about the first, but would be interested to hear your answer to the second if you have one.

[The Mance]

Well i'm not going to enumerate all of the various ways that fans of a work might express their enjoyment of that work. I'm sure you can imagine, and it wouldn't get us any closer to quantifying individual investment. Because while, yes, there are logically gradients of enjoyment, there are also far too many factors that might affect one's ability to express that enjoyment.

As far as labels go, i would be wary of anything that tried to apply an objective hierarchal value.

All of that said, however, anyone who thinks the show is better than the books is clearly a deluded assclown. :P

[Madness]

Inevittable, this might interest you, if you haven't seen it: Visualizing the Signatures of Social Roles in Online Discussion Groups

[rocksniffer]

i am a fan of both books and show...i really enjoy both, a lot...but many would still consider me just a so-so fan since i can't quote chapter and verse, i am not familiar with every theory and sit around thinking up my own...perhaps i am just a lazy casual fan or a lying non-fan, who knows

good luck...and yeah you might get more detailed responses in the book/show forums....

the bloodletting north of the wall is a wonder to behold... :fencing:

My level of, uh, fan-ness varies, depending on my work load, what I'm currently reading/watching, news regarding series, etc. in general, I find my immersion in any particular thing, such as ASOIAF, tends to come in cycles.
Oscillates, if you will.

:bowdown:

I wonder if you'd have better luck with this in the TV or Books threads? Most of the people that post here aren't here to talk about the books or show so it's kind of hard to say. I mean ASoIaF is what brought everyone to this forum but in Gen Chat there isn't much discussion of either series.

eta: I don't think I've posted about ASoIaF in the last two years except maybe trolling the book threads while intoxicated to rile up the locals, more or less on a quarterly basis, probably more or less aligning with the solstices and equinoxes.

me too my brother...i love to sniff around up there every so often with cocktail and bowl in hand just to see what crawls out from under the rocks...especially under a full moon or solar eclipse.... nothing improves a gloomy night than shouting from the thread tops - N+A=J

:smoking:

[Neumond]

(...)

Nevertheless, yours are actually very relevant and useful responses to the questions that I posted, and exactly the type of discussion I'd like to involve you in. (...I Have you ever come across an occurance where someone has called another a "bad" fan or not a "real" fan?

(...)

Neumond, thanks for your responses. No, my intention is not to view this forum as a group of super fans and ask them if they think they are super fans. I hoped to ask a group of individuals of varying "levels" of engagement how they judge/evaluate other fans, and whether they thought that it's possible to label certain fans in certain ways depending on the ways that they engage with the show or each other.

(...)

It´s a balance act to come across as you wish to on the internet. Isn´t it? ;)

If these were the kind of answers you wanted to have. It probably would be a good idea to start a discussion with some concrete questions... Such broad strokes are difficult to handle. And people seem eager to jump in a discussion if they find some statements, that they don´t approve with ;).

If you are wondering if people call others good or bad fans, you should probably look at the forum above.

In the show-section:

There you will find the categorisation of unsullied vs sullied. (unsullied are the show-only-watchers sullied have read the books.) Most use these terms rather neutral. But you will probably find some snarky comments towards the unsullied if you use the search with these words.

General vs Dance with dragons forums:

People in the dance with dragons forum have sometimes the air of elite on them. You will find statements such as: "I try to avoid the general forums."

You should have a look at the heresy-threads. These guys have amazing insights in the series and are engaging in some pretty deep analyses. And they call themselves heretics, because they claim to think out of the box. (Which they do! I´m a big fan of them guys :).) But as you can deduce from their self-given name, they are distancing themselves from the "mainstream"-fandom.

That´s all I can think of at the moment :). I hope that helps.

At the statistics-topic: I didn´t wanted to sound snarky but from your questions I had a "feeling".

Edit: Because you mentioned fanart. For many people Fanart is also a way to gather clicks. If you are an unknown artist it can be an option to go for fanart, because than your work will show up in google and co.