Anyone Else Notice That Daenerys is Half Blackwood?

[LmL]

She is... In fact, the whole line going back to the children of Aegon V the Unlikely (Egg), who married Betha, is half Blackwood. Egg's kids, Jahaerys II and Shaera, married each other, and their kids, Mad King Aerys II and Rhaella, married each other. No new blood, so everyone is still half Blackwood. Rhaegar, Daenerys, Rhaegar's (probably) dead children, even whiney little Viserys. Half Blackwood.

As we all well know, the Blackwoods are a first-men-blood-containing house from the North, and of course Bloodraven is a Blackwood.

Jon Snowgaryen is therefore one quarter Blackwood, one quarter Targ, and one half Stark. This may explain why his Targ looks are recessive.

As for Daenerys... any ideas on the potential ramifications of this? It means she's also a child of "Fire and Ice," as the Blackwoods worship the old gods and all that. Perhaps she has access to "Ice Magic," i.e. warging or green-seeing. It casts a little doubt on where exactly her visions may come from, and it also is another piece of evidence that warging may have something to do with dragon riding, or that it may be similar, like Ice and Fire mirror images of each other. I'm sure many have noticed that there are many parallels between the Ice magic and Fire magic, such as seeing over long distances (glass candles, greenseers), re-animation of the dead (zombies, eek), blood sacrifice, and blood magic. There are others, too, (no pun intended), but I'm curious what everyone can come up with in regards to Daenerys (and Rhaegar, for that matter) being half Blackwood.

[barristan-b]

I mean in essence, Stannis, Jon, Dany, Shireen, Edric, and Gendry all have some Blackwood blood. But then also add in Dayne (Egg is half Dayne) and then also Martell (Maekar was half-Martell). Those are the families that fused into the Targ descendents after Daeron stopped the incest.

[LmL]

I mean in essence, Stannis, Jon, Dany, Shireen, Edric, and Gendry all have some Blackwood blood. But then also add in Dayne (Egg is half Dayne) and then also Martell (Maekar was half-Martell). Those are the families that fused into the Targ descendents after Daeron stopped the incest.

The Dayne one stands out for sure. It's pretty clear they are more important than we thought early on.

*hints at giant theory still in development*

[LmL]

In regards to sorting out what magic in manifesting in characters that have both Ice and Fire blood, I just noticed something. Fire magic visions are prophetic - a telling of the future. Dragon dreams are prophetic, they never show the past. However, all of things people see through weirwoods have already happened or is happening now. When Ned died, the Stark children dreamed it - but not before. Even Jojen, who seems to know something about the future - the day he's going to die - he actually only knows that TODAY is NOT that day - he doesn't know the future at all, actually, only the present. Everything Quaithe tells Dany is about the future as well. Using this principle, we can examine the visions the various characters are seeing, and it may give us a clue of the "dormant" side of their magic lineage is manifesting. Jon Snow leaps to mind - he sees visions of the future at times, so it may be logical to conclude that his fire magic is manifesting. The only time Dany sees the past that I can remember is in the house of the undying, which seems to be kind of its own thing, with the Warlock Juice.

Thoughts?

[Mithras]

Ice Magic has nothing to do with Old Gods or skinchanging or CotF.

[Durran Durrandon]

In regards to sorting out what magic in manifesting in characters that have both Ice and Fire blood, I just noticed something. Fire magic visions are prophetic - a telling of the future. Dragon dreams are prophetic, they never show the past. However, all of things people see through weirwoods have already happened or is happening now. When Ned died, the Stark children dreamed it - but not before. Even Jojen, who seems to know something about the future - the day he's going to die - he actually only knows that TODAY is NOT that day - he doesn't know the future at all, actually, only the present. Everything Quaithe tells Dany is about the future as well. Using this principle, we can examine the visions the various characters are seeing, and it may give us a clue of the "dormant" side of their magic lineage is manifesting. Jon Snow leaps to mind - he sees visions of the future at times, so it may be logical to conclude that his fire magic is manifesting. The only time Dany sees the past that I can remember is in the house of the undying, which seems to be kind of its own thing, with the Warlock Juice.

Thoughts?

The Ghost of Higheart would appear to have weirwood visions that are prophetic.

[LmL]

The Ghost of Higheart would appear to have weirwood visions that are prophetic.

Ah, true enough. So much for that I guess.

[LmL]

Ice Magic has nothing to do with Old Gods or skinchanging or CotF.

I actually agree with this. The COTF seems to represent not fire or ice, but earth.

[Gonzalo]

Earth... and the balance between ice and fire

[Durran Durrandon]

I feel like it is the duality that is important, not the element. Fire and storm are on the light side. Earth and water and ice are on the dark side. The opposition or harmony of those forces seems to be a matter of interpretation for the religions. Less we forget, the trees outside of the House of the Undying had black bark and blue leaves.

[LmL]

I feel like it is the duality that is important, not the element. Fire and storm are on the light side. Earth and water and ice are on the dark side. The opposition or harmony of those forces seems to be a matter of interpretation for the religions. Less we forget, the trees outside of the House of the Undying had black bark and blue leaves.

I'm with you 100% on the fire and air being on one side, and earth and ice / water on the other. There's a lot of evidence in the Iron Isalnds mytholgy that shows the Storm God to be on team fire, and the drowned god on team ice... Or I guess team light and dark, that's probably the right terminology. I'm curious if there a third player on team light, because although water and ice are the same thing in different forms, it definitely seems like the sea and the ice have their own things going on. If there's a third player on team fire... perhaps the black stone?

Great catch on the Warlock trees - they're an opposite to the Weirwoods somehow, it seems.

[Durran Durrandon]

I'm with you 100% on the fire and air being on one side, and earth and ice / water on the other. There's a lot of evidence in the Iron Isalnds mytholgy that shows the Storm God to be on team fire, and the drowned god on team ice... Or I guess team light and dark, that's probably the right terminology. I'm curious if there a third player on team light, because although water and ice are the same thing in different forms, it definitely seems like the sea and the ice have their own things going on. If there's a third player on team fire... perhaps the black stone?

Great catch on the Warlock trees - they're an opposite to the Weirwoods somehow, it seems.

It was someone else's catch. I can't quote the passages now, but if you compare Bran's experience eating weirwood paste and Danerys' experience with blue warlock juice, it's pretty blatant.

I am pretty firm on the idea that the teams being in opposition is a recent human invention. The Ironborn see a conflict between the Drowned God and the Storm God, but in the Hero Age Stormlands mythology, the Sea Goddess and the Storm God are married. The R'hlorian priests see R'hlor and the Great Other in opposition, but in the Yi Ti mythology, The Lion of Night and the Maiden Made of Light are married. I imagine the Others see themselves locked in opposition, but I doubt the Children of the Forest feel that way.

[LmL]

It was someone else's catch. I can't quote the passages now, but if you compare Bran's experience eating weirwood paste and Danerys' experience with blue warlock juice, it's pretty blatant.

I am pretty firm on the idea that the teams being in opposition is a recent human invention. The Ironborn see a conflict between the Drowned God and the Storm God, but in the Hero Age Stormlands mythology, the Sea Goddess and the Storm God are married. The R'hlorian priests see R'hlor and the Great Other in opposition, but in the Yi Ti mythology, The Lion of Night and the Maiden Made of Light are married. I imagine the Others see themselves locked in opposition, but I doubt the Children of the Forest feel that way.

Yes, again I agree 100%. I believe it is all about achieving balance, and I also noticed that the oldest religions have their deities in harmony. The Rhoynar also had to get their gods to get along again to end the long night.

This what is great about George RR Martin - you can figure this kind of stuff out, and still, we have no idea how it's going to resolve. How is balance achieved? I've seen several good ideas about this, and each may be plausible. That's why I think it's so rewarding to ponder this stuff - George has baked a hellacious layer cake here.

[LmL]

Ok, so we see that:

team light has Fire to oppose team dark’s Ice

team light has Air (storm) to oppose team dark’s Water (ocean)

team dark has the COTF as a balancing agent..

and team light has what as a balancing agent, equivalent to the COTF?

If the black and blue warlock trees are the equivalent to the Weirwoods, that’s interesting, because they aren’t ‘opposites’ like fire and ice, they are alternate versions of the same thing. So, if team light has a tree also, they must have a COTF equivalent. The children live underground, so their equivalent should also, if that pattern holds. interestingly, there’s a lot of curious underground stuff going on, here and there... the one I am looking at right now is the deep caves underneath the island of Leng, which supposedly belong to the Deep Ones. What’s weird about Leng is that the super tall, native Lengii have golden eyes which can see far in the dark - that sounds like the COTF. Perhaps the Lengii interbred with the old ones a bit, or perhaps the Lengii themselves are the COTF equivalent. Their empress occasionally listened to the Old Ones and had all the foreigners on the island put to death, which could be a blood sacrifice, particularly if ordered by the Old Ones.

This means that there may be two versions of earth, one rooted in the dark and one in light somehow. its interesting that all the COTF caves seem like natural caves, IIRC, and all the underground places in the east are carved tunnels. The oily black stone fortress at the base of the Hightower has weird, twisting tunnels dug into it. There’s also Nefer, the secret city in far east Essos, 9/10ths of their city is underground. Hmmm. Must research.

[Steve Stark]

The Dayne one stands out for sure. It's pretty clear they are more important than we thought early on.

*hints at giant theory still in development*

Uh, I would like to see this theory. The Daynes intrigue me, and now I'm curious.

[Durran Durrandon]

If the black and blue warlock trees are the equivalent to the Weirwoods, that’s interesting, because they aren’t ‘opposites’ like fire and ice, they are alternate versions of the same thing. So, if team light has a tree also, they must have a COTF equivalent.

They have blue leaves. Blue is always symbolic of death in these books. Unless it is a blue rose, in which case it is symbolic Jon or Lyanna. Sometimes with no space in between:

"As they came together in a rush of steel and shadow, he could hear Lyanna screaming. “Eddard!” she called. A storm of rose petals blew across a blood-streaked sky, as blue as the eyes of death." GOT 410

I think the Warlocks trees are definitely associated with death, and are in many ways opposites of, but not necessarily in opposition to the weirwood trees.

You did get me thinking about how the underground could be associated with at least fire if not light instead of darkness, however. Essos, or at least parts of it that we are familiar with seems a bit more volcanic than Westeros, so you could have an association with underground and lava, which clearly we do in the legends of the fire worms.

Speaking of which, are there any volcanoes on Westeros? Where the crap were the CotF getting obsidian to give to the Night's Watch?

[Steve Stark]

Speaking of which, are there any volcanoes on Westeros? Where the crap were the CotF getting obsidian to give to the Night's Watch?

Good question. I'd imagine they got the obsidian from all over, including the mountains/possible volcanoes up in the North in Westeros. Just because it's cold up there doesn't mean the planet doesn't spew up some lava rock from time to time...or perhaps even long ago but there are stores of it in the ground. They (CotF) are deep in those tunnels and probably have endless obsidian at their disposal. And maybe it's called "dragon glass" by some because dragons tended to dwell up in the mountainous caves with all the precious obsidian in them. Valuable, but if you wanted it, you had to get past dragons to get some. So maybe that's how it got the name dragon glass? But of course the educated ones like those at the Citadel still call it obsidian. What other reason is there to call it dragon glass? Because it's shiny and hard like dragon scales, possibly?

EDIT: I like how I sort of just had a conversation with myself. I love being crazy.

[LmL]

They have blue leaves. Blue is always symbolic of death in these books. Unless it is a blue rose, in which case it is symbolic Jon or Lyanna. Sometimes with no space in between:

"As they came together in a rush of steel and shadow, he could hear Lyanna screaming. Eddard! she called. A storm of rose petals blew across a blood-streaked sky, as blue as the eyes of death." GOT 410

I think the Warlocks trees are definitely associated with death, and are in many ways opposites of, but not necessarily in opposition to the weirwood trees.

Yes, I agree that the two earth forces may not be in opposition to each other, because they are the balancing forces for each group. They are mirror images. Although if the 'light elves' are Lengii, they'd be really really tall, which would make them kind of opposite in an unimportant way that I find amusing.

You did get me thinking about how the underground could be associated with at least fire if not light instead of darkness, however. Essos, or at least parts of it that we are familiar with seems a bit more volcanic than Westeros, so you could have an association with underground and lava, which clearly we do in the legends of the fire worms.

I for one find the firewyrm / wyvern magical cross reading idea has merit. It fits into my 'big theory'

Speaking of which, are there any volcanoes on Westeros? Where the crap were the CotF getting obsidian to give to the Night's Watch?

Well, I think Hardhomme is a good bet for volcanism - we have the giant disaster / eruption that happened 600 years ago - 200 years before the Doom - which was visible from the watch (they thought the sun was rising in the north it was so bright.) Plus, we are told the firewyrms live in the cliffs, which is pockmarked with their tunnels. That's where the obsidian may be coming from, although that system of volcanism probably extends beyond the immediate vicinity of Hardhomme. Since we know the COTF have been giving obsidian the NW for as long as anyone can recall, I've always assumed there was volcanism up there, and Hardhomme seems like the ticket.

The hot springs under Winterfell indicate geothermal activity. There's a giant lava cauldron under Yellowstone, that's why it has hot springs. That's why I've always been interested in the various 'dragon or dragon eggs beneath Winterfell' idea. Jahaerys dragon may have left some, and Aegon and Balerion actually went by Winterfell on their royal progress too. There's way too much talk about dragons eggs under there to ignore, and the hot springs geothermal wath would make the dragon think it's a great place. Lastly, I find no other reasonable explanation for Summer's seeing a fire breathing serpent fly by overhead after Winterfell was sacked and burned. A dragon hatched or flew away. It breathed Fire, so it's not a ice dragon (yet). But it happened.

[Durran Durrandon]

The hot springs under Winterfell indicate geothermal activity. There's a giant lava cauldron under Yellowstone, that's why it has hot springs. That's why I've always been interested in the various 'dragon or dragon eggs beneath Winterfell' idea. Jahaerys dragon may have left some, and Aegon and Balerion actually went by Winterfell on their royal progress too. There's way too much talk about dragons eggs under there to ignore, and the hot springs geothermal wath would make the dragon think it's a great place. Lastly, I find no other reasonable explanation for Summer's seeing a fire breathing serpent fly by overhead after Winterfell was sacked and burned. A dragon hatched or flew away. It breathed Fire, so it's not a ice dragon (yet). But it happened.

I guess I should have remembered all of those.

[sertravisredbeard]

Although Daenerys being half Blackwood, I find the fact that, if R+L=J is true, Jon's got healthy dosages of Stark, Targaryen, Dayne and Blackwood blood. Both Ned and the Targaryens are products of incest and semi-incest, so the Stark in Lyanna and the Targaryen blood in Rhaegar are both especially strong. The Blackwoods and Daynes are two of the coolest, most mysterious, and probably closest tied to the First Men and the Dawn Age houses in the south. Jon's got some serious juju.