AndrewJ Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 I have to say, as someone who's never read the comics... When I first heard the announcements for the Civil War movie and read the reports that the comics had Cap and Stark taking opposite sides over the whole registration deal, it made perfect sense to me. It was obvious - there's no way the renegade Stark who always does his own thing (and has the resources to back it up) would ever acquiesce to any proposed registraction/subjugation. Whereas good old government stooge Cap who, was in the army and always does as he's told, would be the first to sign up and say "Yes Sir!!!" And then I learned it was the exact opposite. Huh!!!??? I still say they should have switched the roles in the movie - it would be far more in keeping with how the characters have been presented to date. Comics be damned. (And I have no doubt they didn't dare do that for fear of incurring the wrath of comic fans). And I think the teams would probably make a lot more sense now with the leads switched - Cap would be joined by all the other government/shield "yes men" such as Falcon and War Machine. And it would put Stark and War Machine on oppsing sides - having them both on the same side is a little redundant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Cap sees superhero registration as a violation of a person's rights to privacy. Winning a war isn't worth it if the cost is your integrity. Stark wants to save the world, and to do that he feels he needs to control it. Therefore, a registry is a powerful tool he can use to keep the peace. Safety no matter what the cost. It's all an eighth-grader's interpretation of the differences between Conservative and Liberal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterfell is Burning Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 I have to say, as someone who's never read the comics... When I first heard the announcements for the Civil War movie and read the reports that the comics had Cap and Stark taking opposite sides over the whole registration deal, it made perfect sense to me. It was obvious - there's no way the renegade Stark who always does his own thing (and has the resources to back it up) would ever acquiesce to any proposed registraction/subjugation. Whereas good old government stooge Cap who, was in the army and always does as he's told, would be the first to sign up and say "Yes Sir!!!" And then I learned it was the exact opposite. Huh!!!??? I still say they should have switched the roles in the movie - it would be far more in keeping with how the characters have been presented to date. Comics be damned. (And I have no doubt they didn't dare do that for fear of incurring the wrath of comic fans). And I think the teams would probably make a lot more sense now with the leads switched - Cap would be joined by all the other government/shield "yes men" such as Falcon and War Machine. And it would put Stark and War Machine on oppsing sides - having them both on the same side is a little redundant. It makes perfect sense for them to be in the roles- Stark is arrogant enough to think only he could handle the SHRA and make it work. Also, when it happened in the comics, he had the Extremis update that basically made him the most powerful superhero in the world, and if opposed the SHRA he could simply erase everything from the government records. As for Cap, have him just be a stooge for the US government is a poor characterization, although it did happen in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Kilmore Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Besides it doesn't take much for Captain America to remember another group of people who registered certain groups....they were called Nazis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Cap is the guy who won't let a single civilian die even if it means everyone else dies. He is the absolute ends never justify the means guy. And always has been in each of his movies. They've done a very good job with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 I'm tired of the Avengers fighting each other, I just might sit the next Captain America movie out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Cap sees superhero registration as a violation of a person's rights to privacy. Winning a war isn't worth it if the cost is your integrity. Stark wants to save the world, and to do that he feels he needs to control it. Therefore, a registry is a powerful tool he can use to keep the peace. Safety no matter what the cost. It's all an eighth-grader's interpretation of the differences between Conservative and Liberal. Welcome to the writing of Mark Millar! In fairness to the films though they have established Stark as a guy who does what he wants and assumes he knows best while Cap is more concerned with choice, freedom. etc. I still think there'd have to be a major abuse of a masked hero's civil liberties for him to go to outright war against the government. It can't just be an opposition to them registering. I wonder if it's more a case of Tony wants to build an Infinity war army and is essentially conscripting all powered individuals. That's something where I can imagine Cap feels they should be able to choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BlackBear Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 It's all very silly. At the end of the day Stark (and to a lesser degree Reed, Pym, and Hill) have a very good point, compared to Cap's very wishy washy one. So they made him behave like an utter monster to stretch the fight out. I also think it'll be interesting that Thor will be alive in this version, but not take part. In the comics he's dead, and Reed and Stark make a cyborg clone of him that goes rogue and murders Goliath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon AS Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 It's all very silly. At the end of the day Stark (and to a lesser degree Reed, Pym, and Hill) have a very good point, compared to Cap's very wishy washy one. So they made him behave like an utter monster to stretch the fight out. I also think it'll be interesting that Thor will be alive in this version, but not take part. In the comics he's dead, and Reed and Stark make a cyborg clone of him that goes rogue and murders Goliath. Such a wasted opportunity to introduce one of the approximately 20 variations of Thor Marvel has running around in the comics. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Drunkard Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 I can see Cap fighting it based on Winter Soldier alone. The nazi illuminati came within a hairsbreadth of killing everyone they thought troublesome by taking advantage of a government group with too much knowledge and wielding too much power, who's to say it couldn't happen again? Nevermind his desire to protect the freedoms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NestorMakhnosLovechild Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Besides it doesn't take much for Captain America to remember another group of people who registered certain groups....they were called Nazis. Alternatively, they were called the US government, and the group that was registered and rounded up onto military encampments were Japanese Americans. That's part of what's bothered me about the way that Captain America was written around the time of Civil War in the comics. They're incredibly selective and reformist about the parts of Captain America's morality that he brought with him from the 1940s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterfell is Burning Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 It's all very silly. At the end of the day Stark (and to a lesser degree Reed, Pym, and Hill) have a very good point, compared to Cap's very wishy washy one. So they made him behave like an utter monster to stretch the fight out. I also think it'll be interesting that Thor will be alive in this version, but not take part. In the comics he's dead, and Reed and Stark make a cyborg clone of him that goes rogue and murders Goliath. In the comics, there's an extra issue in the fact that SHIELD was infiltrated from everything to aliens to HYDRA to anti-mutant terrorists every day and the government used Sentinels to hunt and kill it's own citizens, so it was more than reasonable to believe it was a bad idea to give them any power. I don't think they're going to kill anyone in Civil War, but I can see Spider-Man's secret identity being revealed- and possibly Hawkeye's wife and kids and their location- being something that makes heroes turn sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 I don't think they're going to kill anyone in Civil War, but I can see Spider-Man's secret identity being revealed- Really? Seems a hell of a thing to lumber the new spidey franchise with? Especially with the school setting - I doubt they'd let Peter attend once everyone knows who he is. I wouldn't miss the silly drama with Aunt May being turned into one where she knows he's Spidey. Unless Dr Strange hooks Peter up with a demon or Infinity Gem and makes everyone magically forget his secret ID? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon AS Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Unless Dr Strange hooks Peter up with a demon or Infinity Gem and makes everyone magically forget his secret ID? Isn't the going currency for restoring your secret identity a marriage? Could be a bit tricky for young Peter. On the other hand you could turn it into a story: Peter desperately needs to get married so he can pay off a demon before some supercriminal murders all his loved ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Kilmore Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Alternatively, they were called the US government, and the group that was registered and rounded up onto military encampments were Japanese Americans. That's part of what's bothered me about the way that Captain America was written around the time of Civil War in the comics. They're incredibly selective and reformist about the parts of Captain America's morality that he brought with him from the 1940s. Very fair point. I was sticking with the movie history, but you are correct factually and in your criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewJ Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 A large part of the plot to Iron Man 2 was the government wanting to take control of the suits - and basically taking him to court to do so and him telling them to go to hell. So for him to now do a complete 180 and fight Cap in defence of the goverment doing exactly that seems somewhat inconsistent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanna Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 A large part of the plot to Iron Man 2 was the government wanting to take control of the suits - and basically taking him to court to do so and him telling them to go to hell. So for him to now do a complete 180 and fight Cap in defence of the goverment doing exactly that seems somewhat inconsistent Events from Avengers/Avengers 2 could change his mind, though. Same for Cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterfell is Burning Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Events from Avengers/Avengers 2 could change his mind, though. Same for Cap. Plus, in Iron Man 2, the government would be in control of his suits (and the senator pushing for it was HYDRA); in Civil War, Tony would be the one in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protar Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 A large part of the plot to Iron Man 2 was the government wanting to take control of the suits - and basically taking him to court to do so and him telling them to go to hell. So for him to now do a complete 180 and fight Cap in defence of the goverment doing exactly that seems somewhat inconsistent That's kind of the whole point. He's ashamed of how reckless and selfish he was acting before, he's seen the destruction he can bring when he refuses to be held accountable for his actions, so now he wants to keep himself, and others in check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Plus, in Iron Man 2, the government would be in control of his suits (and the senator pushing for it was HYDRA); in Civil War, Tony would be the one in charge.That's a meta question I've had. Do we think that Gary Shandling was meant to be HYDRA all along? Or once they later came up with the plan to have HYDRA infiltrate SHIELD they figured he'd be a good government figure to toss in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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