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NFL 2015 offseason: the draft is only two months away


DanteGabriel

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My apologies on JA's earlier question -- Peterson's reinstatement did officially come through today, so it wasn't "old news." I guess I just thought it was old because I'd thought it happened a while ago, or assumed it would and didn't find the news to be remarkable.


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Yeah, he won his appeal today and was reinstated immediately. But it doesn't really mean anything at this point. The yelling and near fist fight between the Vikings exec and his agent was supposedly over Peterson wanting a trade (Dallas) and the Vikings basically laughed at him and said they'll do what they think is best for the team, regardless of what AP wants. At least according to the local rumors.


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So Dez Bryant's contract is expiring and he wants top dollar. So lo and behold a 2011 story of him doing something bad suddenly comes out, being reported by NFL shill Ian Rappaport. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000474212/article/2011-bryant-incident-details-cowboys-lack-of-offfield-trust-in-wr



How very fucking convenient,eh, Jerry Jones?


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So Dez Bryant's contract is expiring and he wants top dollar. So lo and behold a 2011 story of him doing something bad suddenly comes out, being reported by NFL shill Ian Rappaport. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000474212/article/2011-bryant-incident-details-cowboys-lack-of-offfield-trust-in-wr

How very fucking convenient,eh, Jerry Jones?

There's a rumor it's worse than the Ray Rice video. Of course no one has been able to produce this video in 4 years. And yeah, the timing is ridiculous. Reports only resurfacing the first moment in 4 years it's beneficial to the Cowboys that Dez Bryant looks bad.

The whole thing smells to high heavens. If there's an organic reason we're hearing about this now, I'd love to hear what that is.

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My apologies on JA's earlier question -- Peterson's reinstatement did officially come through today, so it wasn't "old news." I guess I just thought it was old because I'd thought it happened a while ago, or assumed it would and didn't find the news to be remarkable.

Too little, too late! Pistols at dawn!

Lol, no worries, I actually thought I'd heard something about it before but saw it as news today and today has been my re-emersion into football after much 49ers related angst. So your reaction fit.

Anyways, kal, getting back to Winston, I have long been relatively unimpressed by his supposed football intelligence/intelligence in general. He plays smart and anticipates, but whenever I saw him interviewed he came off canned and kinda used car salesman to me. So all this combine buzz initially kinda 'mhe'd' me, though unlike some here I always saw him as a better NFL prospect than Mariota.

But I got a couple e-mails from connected guys I trust...one of whom is a huge Mariotta guy and who argued with me about Winston for the past year...who told me he was blowing up the combine with his interviews, with GMs and personel guys calling him the smartest guy they'd ever interviewed, comparing him to Peyton and some grading him higher than Luck (on-field) so I wanted to know what all the fuss was about.

And then I saw the Mariucci thing and was floored. It's my favourite/only Mooch thing I like on NFL TV. Mostly he says cliches and giggles. But his 1on 1's with qb's are worth the wait. Few years ago I first became an RGIII believer from one of these. Others have impressed to varying degrees, but no one's come close to what I saw Winston do.

If you've never seen it, one thing he does is at one point jump up and chalk up a complicated WCO play, usually one about 8 words long firing off coverage splits, p&p priorities and such, and then promptly erases the board. Then he sits back down and talks other stuff...personal stuff, asks tough questions...with Winston it was about his shoulder mostly...not giving them time to ponder, then all of a sudden asks them to get up to the board and chalk it out. Various players get it variously right, but it's a tough gig, especially as most are used to different systems/terms. RGIII was praised because he got it almost word perfect. But this...

In his delayed chalkboard play, Winston didn't just repeat it verbatim...hard enough....but he processed it through FSU terminology, anticipated split reads and questions about where to go when, he several times answered Mooch questions as/before they were being asked...at one point even disagrees with Mooch on a read offering a situation where it plays out better than Mooch suggests...and my favourite part, in the midst of all this, while doing the live read crap, he's pitching.

First he plays to Mooch by naming one of the hypothetical receivers Jerry Rice, and when Mooch rejects that he immediately checks off to name Vincent Jackson, a not so subtle reference to going first overall...again, while doing other stuff that's itself supposed to be the challenge without breaking a sweat and at a faster rate than anyone's seen. Mooch continually looks back at the crew with a 'do you believe this?' laugh and later says Winston is by far the best he's ever seen.

I've seen NFL players raving about the Mooch thing, using terms like 'drop the mic' and wanting to see each other's expressions as they watch it...it's that impressive. Anyways, he's sold me. I maintain he may be a real life knucklehead and I think there might be more to this shoulder issue than he wants to let on, but I now believe he actually is the football prodigy I've been hearing about for so long.

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Too little, too late! Pistols at dawn!

Lol, no worries, I actually thought I'd heard something about it before but saw it as news today and today has been my re-emersion into football after much 49ers related angst. So your reaction fit.

Anyways, kal, getting back to Winston, I have long been relatively unimpressed by his supposed football intelligence/intelligence in general. He plays smart and anticipates, but whenever I saw him interviewed he came off canned and kinda used car salesman to me. So all this combine buzz initially kinda 'mhe'd' me, though unlike some here I always saw him as a better NFL prospect than Mariota.

But I got a couple e-mails from connected guys I trust...one of whom is a huge Mariotta guy and who argued with me about Winston for the past year...who told me he was blowing up the combine with his interviews, with GMs and personel guys calling him the smartest guy they'd ever interviewed, comparing him to Peyton and some grading him higher than Luck (on-field) so I wanted to know what all the fuss was about.

And then I saw the Mariucci thing and was floored. It's my favourite/only Mooch thing I like on NFL TV. Mostly he says cliches and giggles. But his 1on 1's with qb's are worth the wait. Few years ago I first became an RGIII believer from one of these. Others have impressed to varying degrees, but no one's come close to what I saw Winston do.

If you've never seen it, one thing he does is at one point jump up and chalk up a complicated WCO play, usually one about 8 words long firing off coverage splits, p&p priorities and such, and then promptly erases the board. Then he sits back down and talks other stuff...personal stuff, asks tough questions...with Winston it was about his shoulder mostly...not giving them time to ponder, then all of a sudden asks them to get up to the board and chalk it out. Various players get it variously right, but it's a tough gig, especially as most are used to different systems/terms. RGIII was praised because he got it almost word perfect. But this...

In his delayed chalkboard play, Winston didn't just repeat it verbatim...hard enough....but he processed it through FSU terminology, anticipated split reads and questions about where to go when, he several times answered Mooch questions as/before they were being asked...at one point even disagrees with Mooch on a read offering a situation where it plays out better than Mooch suggests...and my favourite part, in the midst of all this, while doing the live read crap, he's pitching.

First he plays to Mooch by naming one of the hypothetical receivers Jerry Rice, and when Mooch rejects that he immediately checks off to name Vincent Jackson, a not so subtle reference to going first overall...again, while doing other stuff that's itself supposed to be the challenge without breaking a sweat and at a faster rate than anyone's seen. Mooch continually looks back at the crew with a 'do you believe this?' laugh and later says Winston is by far the best he's ever seen.

I've seen NFL players raving about the Mooch thing, using terms like 'drop the mic' and wanting to see each other's expressions as they watch it...it's that impressive. Anyways, he's sold me. I maintain he may be a real life knucklehead and I think there might be more to this shoulder issue than he wants to let on, but I now believe he actually is the football prodigy I've been hearing about for so long.

I'm gonna find this video now because it sounds amazing, but I was incredibly impressed watching him at the combine. Kids in shorts, and all that, I know. But he threw such a nice ball, and so precise to WR's he'd never worked with. His throwing motion is a little long (he used to be a pitcher), but it's not a big deal and he's reportedly doing very well in shortening it up in drills. Other than that slow ass 40 time and the thing where he probably raped someone, there's a lot to like.

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There's a rumor it's worse than the Ray Rice video. Of course no one has been able to produce this video in 4 years. And yeah, the timing is ridiculous. Reports only resurfacing the first moment in 4 years it's beneficial to the Cowboys that Dez Bryant looks bad.

The whole thing smells to high heavens. If there's an organic reason we're hearing about this now, I'd love to hear what that is.

What I've been hearing is that the video was taken by former friends of Bryant's who have been frozen out and are trying to cash in. They've been peddling video stills to various news organizations, TMZ, and the Cowboys.

And Bryant seemed to address such on Twitter:

http://www.foxsports.com/southwest/story/dallas-cowboys-dez-bryant-tweets-022515

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Interestingly timed stories of Jameis Winston's alleged sexual assault breaking today. Imo doesn't move the needle on whether or not he's guilty, but paints a new, dark picture if he is. Another girl said she sought therapy after a sexual relationship with Winston; entirely consensual according to her, but it sounds like he's into some weird stuff, if she's credible.

Don't know how I feel about this. Firmly believe in presumption of innocence, but can't help tainting my view of the guy. Which makes no sense, really. Ought to be one or the other, the middle ground is the one which doesn't actually reflect how I'd feel about any of the actual possibilities. He can't be kinda guilty.

Doesn't help that I've spent a lot of time around high profile sports, meaning I've seen the athletes with the entitled/protected lifestyle who cross the line easier than most, but I've also seen the people who often surround them looking for any way to cash in. (this doesn't sound too much like that, though. Unless she's lying, she didn't even seem to know who Winston was.)

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From what I've heard about the Dez story, certain reporters have known about it since September. Just nothing was surfacing. It resurfaced mainly because their was a rumor that Jerry Jones was terrified about what's on it. Because if it's something different than the police report, he's pretty much fair game for the conduct policy.



So reportedly Jerry is terrified that he's going to sign Dez to a big contract and then lose him. Which is why the idea of using the franchise tag has been floating around. It allows them to keep Murray and Dez for a year. The last thing they need is for Dez to sign a contract which forces Murray out, then have Dez leave because he got in trouble.


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What I've been hearing is that the video was taken by former friends of Bryant's who have been frozen out and are trying to cash in. They've been peddling video stills to various news organizations, TMZ, and the Cowboys.


And Bryant seemed to address such on Twitter:



http://www.foxsports.com/southwest/story/dallas-cowboys-dez-bryant-tweets-022515










From what I've heard about the Dez story, certain reporters have known about it since September. Just nothing was surfacing. It resurfaced mainly because their was a rumor that Jerry Jones was terrified about what's on it. Because if it's something different than the police report, he's pretty much fair game for the conduct policy.



So reportedly Jerry is terrified that he's going to sign Dez to a big contract and then lose him. Which is why the idea of using the franchise tag has been floating around. It allows them to keep Murray and Dez for a year. The last thing they need is for Dez to sign a contract which forces Murray out, then have Dez leave because he got in trouble.











Well whoever's behind it, definitely feels like a purely cynical ploy to re-try Dez Bryant in the court of public opinion in a post-Ray-Rice video world. The whole thing makes me really uncomfortable. It's like there's now two classes of sins: 1) those caught on video which you will never be forgiven for and 2) those that aren't which, wait what happened again and can we hurry up and get back to football?



The former class gets punished way too harshly and the latter way too leniently. There's no proportionality to our response. But even more than that, if a video (or picture) exists, forgiveness becomes impossible. Regardless of how awful or trivial (i.e.: the girl posting a gag photo of her flicking off the "be respectful" sign at Arlington Cemetery), once there's a visual it's impossible to move past it.



I dunno. There should be blowback to people who've done heinous things and we know Dez is no exception. He assaulted his mom for chrissakes. But fuck this blackmail.



Edited for endless board formatting issues.


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What I've been hearing is that the video was taken by former friends of Bryant's who have been frozen out and are trying to cash in. They've been peddling video stills to various news organizations, TMZ, and the Cowboys.

And Bryant seemed to address such on Twitter:

http://www.foxsports.com/southwest/story/dallas-cowboys-dez-bryant-tweets-022515

Well whoever's behind it, definitely feels like a purely cynical ploy to re-try Dez Bryant in the court of public opinion in a post-Ray-Rice video world. The whole thing makes me really uncomfortable. It's like there's now two classes of sins: 1) those caught on video which you will never be forgiven for and 2) those that aren't which, wait what happened again and can we hurry up and get back to football?

The former class gets punished way too harshly and the latter way too leniently. There's no proportionality to our response. But even more than that, if a video (or picture) exists, forgiveness becomes impossible. Regardless of how awful or trivial (i.e.: the girl posting a gag photo of her flicking off the "be respectful" sign at Arlington Cemetery), once there's a visual it's impossible to move past it.

I dunno. There should be blowback to people who've done heinous things and we know Dez is no exception. He assaulted his mom for chrissakes. But fuck this blackmail.

In terms of video vs. not, I strongly disagree. Personally I'm always dissatisfied wherever I end up short of being able to see something. Neither concluding guilt or innocence ever sits quite right, excepting where I can see it and feel comfortable enough to move on. So the degree of punishment's ok with me because it correspond's to a greater degree of certainty.

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Well whoever's behind it, definitely feels like a purely cynical ploy to re-try Dez Bryant in the court of public opinion in a post-Ray-Rice video world. The whole thing makes me really uncomfortable. It's like there's now two classes of sins: 1) those caught on video which you will never be forgiven for and 2) those that aren't which, wait what happened again and can we hurry up and get back to football?

The former class gets punished way too harshly and the latter way too leniently. There's no proportionality to our response. But even more than that, if a video (or picture) exists, forgiveness becomes impossible. Regardless of how awful or trivial (i.e.: the girl posting a gag photo of her flicking off the "be respectful" sign at Arlington Cemetery), once there's a visual it's impossible to move past it.

I dunno. There should be blowback to people who've done heinous things and we know Dez is no exception. He assaulted his mom for chrissakes. But fuck this blackmail.

Edited for endless board formatting issues.

Every level of the story is awful -- from whatever Bryant may or may not have done, to the people trying to blackmail him for it after getting kicked off his gravy train, to the Cowboys potentially using it as negotiating leverage.

Good point about the differences in blowback for stuff caught on video vs. not. The Ray Rice thing may not even have become a thing at all without the initial video from outside the elevator. And the video difference is part of the reason Rice is a pariah while Terrell Suggs, who I think did something objectively worse, is still employed and the recipient of NFL hype.

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On Winston - I had largely heard the same thing, that Winston's football IQ is crazy high. That was the report in college too.



That's never been his red flag issue. The issues are that his work ethic is apparently fairly poor, he doesn't make great on the field decisions (he often knows what the right thing is but also often doesn't do it), he's not particularly physically talented and he has horrible off the field decisions.


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In terms of video vs. not, I strongly disagree. Personally I'm always dissatisfied wherever I end up short of being able to see something. Neither concluding guilt or innocence ever sits quite right, excepting where I can see it and feel comfortable enough to move on. So the degree of punishment's ok with me because it correspond's to a greater degree of certainty.

But NFL players have done far worse off-camera. As visceral as our response was to the Ray Rice video, it wasn't worse than what Greg Hardy did. And though it's a little hazier because of the lack of a video that woman has the physical and emotional scars to prove it. Dante just reminded me of Terrell Suggs, who to my point, I'd completely forgotten this:


In 2009 Suggs's girlfriend Candace Williams filed a complaint against Suggs alleging he threw a soap dispenser at her head, struck her in the chest with his hand and held a bottle of bleach over her and their 1 year old son.[30]

There's no video to prove it. But it's not the only domestic violence allegation against him. Plus he was on trial a few years earlier for him and his brother assaulting a guy in a parking lot hitting him repeatedly with a reinforced rod and a baseball bat. How much smoke before we believe there's fire with this guy? But I get it. That niggling bit of doubt that comes from not having a video means a world of difference in how we think of the guy, or more likely how much we don't think about the guy. I'm as guilty of anyone with it. Something about how we need things to be 100% black and white or we stop thinking about them. I'm sure there's another 20 NFLers that we've forgotten the truly terrible stuff they've done.

So you're point is well taken, but I think it's just all the more reason to make sure the punishments we're calling for is proportional to what the guy actually did. Sure it's worse if there's a video as there's no reasonable doubt at that point. But there are limits. I mean Leonard Little and Donte Stallworth each killed a person by driving drunk. There's no video in either case but it's pretty unequivocal what happened. It certainly doesn't seem right that Ray Rice is 1,000x more famous for his heinous actions than those two.

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