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What will we learn about the Others?


James Steller

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If I recall correctly, GRRM has stated in the past that the Others are misunderstood and we'll also be learning much more about them in the next two books. Obviously the intention is to make them slightly more rounded than the "pure evil" label that they've been given in the series.



So what could we possibly be learning about the Others which will make them more sympathetic?



The only thing I can think of is that they see the humans as being dangerous and petty, seeing their violence and wishing to put a stop to it by making them into wights. Though that kind of falls apart when one considers how they also warred against the Children of the Forest, who are clearly all about nature and even made peace with their enemies - the First Men - to drive the Others back beyond the North.



So what else could it be? Any ideas?


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Good question--one I have been pondering for a while. One thing that seems certain is that GRRM does not want to depict them as "pure evil" in the sense that he does not want them motivated by hate or desire to harm people. But my suspicion is that we will find out that they are merely trying to eliminate a threat. I tend to think that they see man as a threat to their existence--men did drive them back originally, after all. Now that "winter is coming" they have the opportunity to expand their area, and that requires eliminating the threats that live in those area--i.e., human beings.



One wrinkle in this theory, however, is the suggestion that the the leader of the Other is the Night's King -- the 13th LC of the NW. We also have the suggestion that human being are used to create new Others -- Crastor's sons. So if the Others are really human beings who have been "converted" into ice creatures, then I am not sure how that impacts their motives regarding seeing human beings as a threat.



The one theory I tend to doubt (but that was popular at one point) is that they are really just misunderstood "good guys" who really want to live in peace with human beings (who have in some way broken the ancient peace agreement). This theory seems to involve Jon Snow realizing what they really want and negotiating a new peace with the Others. I just find that resolution boring and not very dramatic. So I think that the Others will be a mortal threat to the human race that need to be eliminated. One thought that occurs to me is that in the end, if "magic" is eliminated from the world somehow, the Others might convert back to human beings.



But GRRM is such a creative guy that he probably has an answer to the question of what really motivates the Others that none of us has considered. I think we will get quite a few answers regarding these issues in WoW.


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We'll learn that the Others are survivors of the Noldor who got lost in Helcaraxe and went so far north that they ended up on the other side of the world, in the northernmost regions of Westeros.






Either that or the Others are trying to avenge some terrible grievance which was carried out due to some misunderstanding.

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That their invasion of the Seven Kingdoms is necessary for their survival? That individual Others have distinct personalities? That their intention is different from what is assumed?



I dunno. I just know that they are scary as hell and a mayor threat. But so are dragons, and dragons are not inherently evil...


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Good question--one I have been pondering for a while. One thing that seems certain is that GRRM does not want to depict them as "pure evil" in the sense that he does not want them motivated by hate or desire to harm people. But my suspicion is that we will find out that they are merely trying to eliminate a threat. I tend to think that they see man as a threat to their existence--men did drive them back originally, after all. Now that "winter is coming" they have the opportunity to expand their area, and that requires eliminating the threats that live in those area--i.e., human beings.

One wrinkle in this theory, however, is the suggestion that the the leader of the Other is the Night's King -- the 13th LC of the NW. We also have the suggestion that human being are used to create new Others -- Crastor's sons. So if the Others are really human beings who have been "converted" into ice creatures, then I am not sure how that impacts their motives regarding seeing human beings as a threat.

The one theory I tend to doubt (but that was popular at one point) is that they are really just misunderstood "good guys" who really want to live in peace with human beings (who have in some way broken the ancient peace agreement). This theory seems to involve Jon Snow realizing what they really want and negotiating a new peace with the Others. I just find that resolution boring and not very dramatic. So I think that the Others will be a mortal threat to the human race that need to be eliminated. One thought that occurs to me is that in the end, if "magic" is eliminated from the world somehow, the Others might convert back to human beings.

But GRRM is such a creative guy that he probably has an answer to the question of what really motivates the Others that none of us has considered. I think we will get quite a few answers regarding these issues in WoW.

IIRC Martin has said magic is returning to the world and end of series will see a balancing of the seasons or the answer to the imbalance and magic at its peak

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IIRC Martin has said magic is returning to the world and end of series will see a balancing of the seasons or the answer to the imbalance and magic at its peak

I interpreted the suggestion of the seasons regaining balance as a suggestion that while magic is gaining strength at this point (Others gaining power -- dragons being hatched -- etc.) -- magic was never fully eliminated and eliminating magic from the world in the end would be necessary to regain that balance. So, I took him to mean that it was man's use of magic that created the imbalance. But I admit that it is unclear at this point what GRRM means regarding what will be necessary to regain balancing of the seasons.

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I thought he had said the end of the series will see magic at its peak at the end i may be wrong





I interpreted the suggestion of the seasons regaining balance as a suggestion that while magic is gaining strength at this point (Others gaining power -- dragons being hatched -- etc.) -- magic was never fully eliminated and eliminating magic from the world in the end would be necessary to regain that balance. So, I took him to mean that it was man's use of magic that created the imbalance. But I admit that it is unclear at this point what GRRM means regarding what will be necessary to regain balancing of the seasons.



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I thought he had said the end of the series will see magic at its peak at the end i may be wrong

I thought he said that at the beginning of GoT, we see magic making a comeback and growing stronger. I don't know if he ever said that at the end of the series magic would hit its peak. I always assume that it was growing stronger and would create problems--and part of resolving the problems would be eliminating magic from the world. But I admit I could be remembering (or interpreting) the quotes wrong.

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We'll learn that human beings CANNOT be turned into Others. We'll learn why the Others are attacking, and why they attacked in the first place. We'll learn that it's tied to the funky seasons, and hopefully solve that problem as well as fixing the Other issue.






well in ten years when the books are finished (hopefully haha) we will get our answer




Six years if it's still seven books. If there's an eighth book it will be more like eleven. The series average assuming a 2016 release for TWoW (which is consistent with the history) is 5 years per book from beginning to publication.


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We'll learn that human beings CANNOT be turned into Others.

Not to get all HBO-Showy, but I take that you are suggesting that scene on the show in which the baby is turned into an Other is an invention of D&D and will be contradicted in the book? If so, then what is the deal with the sons?

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We need to figure out if there is a common thread between the appearances of the Others throughout history. The appearance of magic begins with the Others in AGOT prologue. What triggered that?

Regardless, my best guess is that something happened that caused the Others to feel threatened or some pact was broken. I find it interesting that there are a bunch of events that happen within a short period of time - Waymar Royce's death (the first 'official' sighting of the Others), the appearance of direwolves, JS asking to take the black...i feel like the last may be most significant and if JS = Azor Ahai, then perhaps the Others see this as fulfilling some prophecy that could mean their end. I have no clue.

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I don't think we'll get much and I don't really care, honestly. Nothing will make them more "sympathetic." It's too little too late for that. Origins, maybe a little rounding of the beings, sure, but nothing that points to them being "justified" in any way.


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It may be as simple as suggesting that from the viewpoint of the Others, the problem with Westeros is not the unnaturally long winters, it's the unnaturally long summers.

Another thing to consider though, is that we have seen the world purely from the viewpoint of the er... not-Others. Regular human types. What evidence is there that the Others are actually in any way evil? Sure, we've seen some nasty things from them. Couldn't the same be said for the humans? Maybe the Others that we've seen so far are just the Other equivalent of Ramsey and his mob. For all we know, the majority of Others live much further North in a society that's considerably less brutal than Westerosi society.

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I don't think we're supposed to feel sorry for the others - merely, we will just get a better understanding of their motives. The may simply have human desires to conquer, and see man's invasion of westeros as a threat that needs to be righted.

A character like Sauron just wanted to cause pain and misery on the world, because he was evil. The others may have more acceptable motives - kill the invading humans so we can be at peace.

As far as specifics, I have to believe there's a big connection between the others and the children. Maybe there was a sect of the children that did NOT want to make peace with humans, and these "Other" CotF are looking to undo the damage caused by their forebears.

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Not to get all HBO-Showy, but I take that you are suggesting that scene on the show in which the baby is turned into an Other is an invention of D&D and will be contradicted in the book? If so, then what is the deal with the sons?

It is an invention of D&D. In the books there are hints of sacrifice, which is a far more likely solution for the sons the Others may or may not take, considering Craster gave goats when his sons ran out.

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