Happy Ent Posted March 29, 2015 Author Share Posted March 29, 2015 I've been waiting for like 3 months for a public disagreement with Happy Ent No you don’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I was only waiting on a disagreement to bust out that line. It would have been AWESOME. IS NOT AWESOME INFINITE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokisnow Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 ISNOTTRUTHINFINITE?!!?Anarcane turtles all the way down.ISNOT HEURISTIC HEURISTINITE?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Maybe if we continue to devolve within these threads Bakker will feel ashamed enough to give us a sample chapter. It's one thing to have controversial books, but it's another when your fans all appear to be mad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokisnow Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 There's a simple word game to illustrate the depths of kellhus delusion.The word dunyain means truth, replace all of kellhus internal use of dunyain with "truth" and the depths of his folly will be revealed. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Maybe if we continue to devolve within these threads Bakker will feel ashamed enough to give us a sample chapter. It's one thing to have controversial books, but it's another when your fans all appear to be mad. I have nightmares that Bakker's going to jump into the thread amidst a whirlwind of gnostic geometries and declare me madder than Inrilatus, and smite me upon an iron ring for all the Ordeal to see. eta: Biographers, please file under "Grandeur, delusions of" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello World Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 The more I think about it the more Kellhus’ claim that Moënghus tried to stop the Cishaurim from assassinating Sasheoka and failed seems hilarious. Mallahet is second only to Seokti in the Cishaurim. And only then because their Prophetic Law bars non-Kianene from the position of Heresiarch. Even the Cishaurim are fearful of his power! This is Cememketri talking about Mallahet. He says that the Cishaurim are fearful of Moënghus. But of course, the rumors he heard could have been exaggerated. Let’s continue looking. All of us who serve him—the Possessors of the Third Sight.”Him … Father. He controlled a faction within the Cishaurim …“I must,” Kellhus said emphatically, “know what he intends.”“He told me nothing … He we see a Cishaurim willing to die delivering a message from Moënghus without even knowing what the message means. Moënghus clearly had complete control of at least some of the Cishaurim. The messenger also says that “the Possessors of the Third Sight” serve Moënghus. Kellhus immediately jumps to the conclusion that Moënghus controls only a ‘faction’ within the Cishaurim, but seriously, how could he know this? Is pulling stuff out of his ass a specialty of some sort? Possessors of the Third Sight—An alternate name for the Cishaurim According to the glossary, PotTS is an alternate for the Cishaurim, not a faction within them. Clearly, Moënghus was in control of the entire Cishaurim organization, they were afraid of him, they were willing to die for him, and of course they were willing to kill for him. Which is perfectly understandable: he was Dûnyain (they probably even loved him as well, btw). The idea that Moënghus could not have convinced them not to attack the Spires if that’s what he wanted seems very, very far-fetched. And since we know that teleporting things is one of Moënghus’ specialties, there is little doubt that he was behind the assassination of Sasheoka. Seriously, how could Kellhus not see this? Unrelated, Maithanet is a dunyain, Kellhus brother from ishual, he is not world born. That could be, but my question is, is Kellhus really Dûnyain? Or did Moënghus take one of his worldborn sons and implanted all those memories of him growing up in Ishuäl before burying him in the snow near Ishuäl to be found by Leweth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Yeah, the inconsistencies with the references to the third sight have come up before. It's confusing because it seems in one place to be just Moe's faction and in another it seems to be referring to all of the Cishaurim and how they see without seeing. The latter makes more sense to me because I could see how Moe as Dunyain would appear to be better at perceiving the world. But the former wasn't implausible to me if Moe was teaching his followers some tricks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello World Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I know it has come up before but I honestly don’t see it as an inconsistency [in the sense that Kellhus was just wrong]. The idea that the possessors of the third sight are only a faction only comes from Kellhus, who at that point did not know much about the Cishaurim--if anything. This was in WP, pre-Circumfix, pre-grasping tTT. Did Kellhus ever even hear the term PotTS before that point? Because it seems to me that he was, as Cohle would say, talking out of his ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I know it has come up before but I honestly don’t see it as an inconsistency [in the sense that Kellhus was just wrong]. The idea that the possessors of the third sight are only a faction only comes from Kellhus, who at that point did not know much about the Cishaurim--if anything. This was in WP, pre-Circumfix, pre-grasping tTT. Did Kellhus ever even hear the term PotTS before that point? Because it seems to me that he was, as Cohle would say, talking out of his ass. OK - So if we were to take out the one line that comes from Kellhus, we'd have the following?: -The 3rd Sight refers to all Cishaurim and how they see without seeing, and Moe shines in it because he's Dunyain -Moenghus more or less controlled the Cishaurim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Even Moe's own acquiescence to Kellhus's assertion that being Cish was a dead end, that he only could handle stuff that required subtelty, is belied by how he kills the skin spy. Dude clearly has some flow to his water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callan S. Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Maybe if we continue to devolve within these threads Bakker will feel ashamed enough to give us a sample chapter. It's one thing to have controversial books, but it's another when your fans all appear to be mad. Perhaps when the thread becomes eratic, the theory will be of pure becoming? Beyond all history? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callan S. Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 No you don’t. Aww, go on - his bark's worse than his bite! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokisnow Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Why was achamian treated by the kianene, I presume his fisher folk family were not the ones who drew the two scimitars upon his brow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello World Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 So Bakker answers Triskan’s question, I need a time-frame, first. Once I have that, I can begin pondering excerpts. And lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 So Bakker answers Triskan’s question, And lol. "eleksirt" Very crafty and elusive there on that username... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello World Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Why was achamian treated by the kianene, I presume his fisher folk family were not the ones who drew the two scimitars upon his brow... Nice catch, I hadn’t noticed that. Using the search function, I assume you’re talking about this? He saw that the Two Scimitars had been drawn in soot or lampblack across his forehead—the work of his caregivers, he supposed. A charm or blessing or prayer of some sort. ‘the Two Scimitars’, of course those are the twin scimitars of Fanimry, symbolizing the “Cutting Eyes” of the Solitary God. But you know what’s weird, while Achamian was with those ‘caregivers’ he had the first of changed dreams, the one where the Heron Spear does not fire on the No-God. I wonder if that had something to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 the Two Scimitars, of course those are the twin scimitars of Fanimry, symbolizing the Cutting Eyes of the Solitary God. But you know whats weird, while Achamian was with those caregivers he had the first of changed dreams, the one where the Heron Spear does not fire on the No-God. I wonder if that had something to do with it.Certainly makes sense if Fanim is the true religion, right way to worship. With the "cutting eyes" Akka finally starts to see the truth. And, I like this a whole lot more than Kelhuss is sending Akka the dreams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokisnow Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I can't believe Noone has suggested moe or meppa was the one who rescued akka from the demon, drew the scimitars, took him to the fisher folk, intimidated them into caring for him, wiped his short term memory, and immunized him / galvanized him against kellhus.It just seems silly to think akka has any agency within the ending of the novel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 It just seems silly to think akka has any agency within the ending of the novel. I don't understand? I'm not in the camp that Kelhuss is manipulating Akka.Yea, might be keeping an eye on him. Definitely believe Skin Eaters and Nil'gaccas was planted by Kelhuss. But, your trying to say Kelhuss knew and for that matter knows that Akka would make as far as he has, kill Nil'gaccas and make it to Ishual? Nah, ain't buying it. If anything he wanted to find out what his intentions were and to have him killed. Akka, has agency and he's about to find out a whole lot more than Kelhuss ever wanted him to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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