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Aegon will be loved, Dany will be Hated


Kyrion

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It seems like most people want this to be a typical fantasy, that shows Daenerys grow, overcome obstacles, comes to Westeros, smashes Aegon and then takes on the others, and everyone on Westeros claims her to be the queen of love and beauty, and she either dies in the process(bitersweet) or she re-establishes the Targaryen dynasty.



However, reading these last 5 books seems like the exact opposite will happen. Dany will not be heroic, she will not be loved, she will not be a savior, etc. etc.



On the subject of Dany being loved in particular~



Dany is loved currently as mhysa, but that was a very different situation, in Westeros the smallfolk want one thing, food and security. They are very religious, and very much against the nobles and behind the sparrow, people that are anti-noble basically. This falls in line with the sayings of Aegon actually. He lived in a pale boat, knows what it means to be hungry, etc. The High Sparrow and Aegon are basically a match in heaven, and with the small folk basically following everything the faith decrees, Aegon will be loved by everyone.



Dany however, isnt the hero they are looking for. She isn't religious, she has a strong belief in prophecy and is consumed by its effects, and she will likely become influenced by Benerro and Moqorro, to turn her towards the red god and she will be obsessed with the prophecy of being Azor Ahai. Let alone we know as the "slayer of lies", she will actually be against the promised prince of the people Aegon.



It seems a lot of people are convinced that Dany will be loved in Westeros, which seems like utter fantasy. We didn't even mention that she will bring dragons to try exert her will.



Im just saying, its clear that Dany will be seen as a villain by Westeros in general. She will not be seen as some savior, far from it.



I think this is genius, since we've been following Dany from the beginning, whereas Aegon is brand new to us, so George wants us to support Dany knowing that she is basically going to be viewed very badly, the strong focus on Westeros only POV's help this.




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Depends entirely on what kind of threat the people are facing.



If the deep dark cold comes threatening to snuff out all life, I imagine they'd appreciate anyone who brings them light and heat.



Sure, that might be a bit "primitive", but do not doubt that their world can be thrown back to the level of cavemen should certain prophecies continue coming to pass.

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I think people still generally want a 'good' or 'happy' ending for their favourites



losing Ned and Robb and other favourites throughout the series has upped the stakes for whoever your remaining favs are but people may be dissappointed if Jon's dead Tyrion does not get a happy ending and Dany ends up the villain (after 4 or 5 books of development) and Aegon (essentially out of left field) winds up the hero



I think that would leave a sour taste in peoples mouths


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Well it does say the crowds cheer the mummer's dragon. So its likely Aegon will be adored for liberating Westeros from Cersei and the Lannisters like Joffrey. Dany comes along and gets rid of him with savages, pirates and soldiers, proclaims that he was from a bastard line and she is the true heir. The people of Westeros wont know what to think, they seem to believe Joffrey was a bastard, now Aegon too? Would you believe the woman leading Dothraki? More like chants of 'kinslayer' to come.


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Depends entirely on what kind of threat the people are facing.

If the deep dark cold comes threatening to snuff out all life, I imagine they'd appreciate anyone who brings them light and heat.

Sure, that might be a bit "primitive", but do not doubt that their world can be thrown back to the level of cavemen should certain prophecies continue coming to pass.

Pretty much this.

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Depends entirely on what kind of threat the people are facing.

If the deep dark cold comes threatening to snuff out all life, I imagine they'd appreciate anyone who brings them light and heat.

Sure, that might be a bit "primitive", but do not doubt that their world can be thrown back to the level of cavemen should certain prophecies continue coming to pass.

I think another huge factor is how the threat of the Others is disseminated. It's unlikely to be something most people can personally witness. So what is told, and what is credited are huge factors. It's entirely possible that most of Westeros remains largely ignorant of their own peril and/or salvation. It's also a matter of timing. There are a lot of moving parts here, and I don't feel confident in any specific predictions. I generally think Dany will play a greater/longer lasting role than Aegon, but that's only attributed to narrative emphasis.

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Well it does say the crowds cheer the mummer's dragon. So its likely Aegon will be adored for liberating Westeros from Cersei and the Lannisters like Joffrey. Dany comes along and gets rid of him with savages, pirates and soldiers, proclaims that he was from a bastard line and she is the true heir. The people of Westeros wont know what to think, they seem to believe Joffrey was a bastard, now Aegon too? Would you believe the woman leading Dothraki? More like chants of 'kinslayer' to come.

This is along the lines of what Im thinking.

Aegon will be cheered, he will have the small folk, the Sparrows, everyone behind him. He will get rid of Cersei, the High Septon will claim he is real(since he has a vested interest, and made enemies already with Cersei and Margarey, Aegon is the perfect new guy to represent). He also has a Septa teach him the mysteries of the faith so he is religious. He also probably has no love for the rich life as he never had it before, he will be not so different from what the High Sparrow wants the Nobles the live like.

Dany on the other hand, she will be the total opposite, She will claim she is the savior of the world(whereas Stannis didnt, just said he was the rightful king and wanted to use Rhillor, Dany actually will believe the prophecies), follows a foreign religion different than the people of Westeros, will bring Pirates, Daario's ruthless selsswords as opposed to knightly sellswords(Golden Company), The Dothraki, and probably some Red priests from Volantis, and of course Drogon as well.

So when Dany comes and demands she is the rightful queen and savior of the world, that wont work on Westeros, and she will be hated.

Also, the people will WANT Aegon to be real,so they will fight to defend it. Wont care if its true or not, hes perfect for their needs and he looks real enough. Dany is a woman, and the council of 101 already made a decision based on that. She will be shunned.

This of course ignores the Others, as who knows what wrench they will throw in this. Im just saying as it stands from what I can see, Aegon will be loved, Dany will be hated.

And finally, loved and hated doesnt mean Hero and Villain, rather just who the people will support. Dany is the "hero" to the readers and Aegon is the usurper, as he literally came out of left field to take something away from our hero character whos been at this for 4 books, Aegon gets it in 1(he invaded at the end of Dance) Just in the eyes of the smallfolk, she is definitely going to be a villain.

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I think the Op is right in that Aegon will be seen as a ideal King for awhile & that he will be allied with the Faith (High Sparrow is Varys puppet).

How & when Dany comes into the picture depends on how the people will see her, as others have said.

I believe she will arrive with conquest on her mind, but will immediately have to ally with Aegon to fight the WW.

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I tend to disagree that she would be hated while Aegon would be loved. It's all a matter of how the coming events play out. I think her dragons will be used in the extermination of the Others, but not as a weapon against the people. She doesn't use her dragons against the common people in Slaver's Bay, in fact she locks them up when they become too unruly and start killing people. Also, in terms of religion, I can see how Aegon would get the support of the High Sparrow, but I don't know that the common people are exceedingly religious. Remember, commoners can't read, so they haven't read the Seven-pointed star. If they live in a city like King's Landing, they can go to the septs for mass and prayer, but most commoners don't have access to a sept (hence the travelling Septons like Meribald). If it's anything like the real medieval world, people followed the religion generally and believed in the broad ideas, but were not as zealous or pious as various media would have you believe. Daenerys has shown that she cares for the common people more than noble lords and she has their best interests at heart. Aegon hasn't had any experience ruling so we don't know what kind of ruler he would be and hasn't shown that he would have the interests of the commoners at heart. She has also known hunger and suffering, actually worse than Aegon, so I think she sympathizes more with people who suffer.


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It seems like most people want this to be a typical fantasy, that shows Daenerys grow, overcome obstacles, comes to Westeros, smashes Aegon and then takes on the others, and everyone on Westeros claims her to be the queen of love and beauty, and she either dies in the process(bitersweet) or she re-establishes the Targaryen dynasty.

Bold statement.

Any examples? Who are these 'most people' you speak of?

Piece of advice, speak for yourself and let other people state their own opinions about characters. This will lead to much more intelligent, fruitful discussion as opposed to mud-slinging from a new poster who maybe doesn't fully understand what they are talking about.

Typically 'fantasies' don't include molestation from brothers, being sold into marriage at 13, assassination attempts, nowhere to call home, friends and servants being raped then murdered in front of you, your baby being born a dead gross monster with worms and scales, etc. etc. etc.

Did you ever think that maybe some of these characters deserve a little relaxation and happiness at some point?

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It seems like most people want this to be a typical fantasy, that shows Daenerys grow, overcome obstacles, comes to Westeros, smashes Aegon and then takes on the others, and everyone on Westeros claims her to be the queen of love and beauty, and she either dies in the process(bitersweet) or she re-establishes the Targaryen dynasty. Love where this is going already :)

However, reading these last 5 books seems like the exact opposite will happen. Dany will not be heroic, she will not be loved, she will not be a savior, etc. etc. But she'll think she is, and Moqorro will further bolster that 'savior' mentality.

On the subject of Dany being loved in particular~

Dany is loved currently as mhysa, but that was a very different situation, in Westeros the smallfolk want one thing, food and security. They are very religious, and very much against the nobles and behind the sparrow, people that are anti-noble basically. This falls in line with the sayings of Aegon actually. He lived in a pale boat, knows what it means to be hungry, etc. The High Sparrow and Aegon are basically a match in heaven, and with the small folk basically following everything the faith decrees, Aegon will be loved by everyone. I semi-agree. Think of it, her immediate company loves her, but EVERY city in slaver's bay wants her gone. She's got enemies on all sides, it would seem. I love the Aegon/High Sparrow alliance idea, primarily because I like the idea of the Faith ruling King's Landing (with Aegon as the face, the 'king,' carrying out their rule, for the people, for the realm. Those should be the actual House Blackfyre words, "For The Realm.")

Dany however, isnt the hero they are looking for. She isn't religious, she has a strong belief in prophecy and is consumed by its effects, and she will likely become influenced by Benerro and Moqorro, to turn her towards the red god and she will be obsessed with the prophecy of being Azor Ahai. Let alone we know as the "slayer of lies", she will actually be against the promised prince of the people Aegon. Love this, definitely agree and it's good to see like-minded individuals that also believe she'll walk right into and buy into Moqorro's interpretation of her being Azor Ahai. It's the final step for Anakin to become Darth Vader. And when Westeros doesn't accept her, Moqorro will be pivital in her decision making. Purification through fire, sort of thing. Burn it all, and begin anew.

It seems a lot of people are convinced that Dany will be loved in Westeros, which seems like utter fantasy. We didn't even mention that she will bring dragons to try exert her will. Exactly, let's not forget that hidden wildfire caches hidden throughout King's Landing. Those could combust, if dragonfire went wild.

Im just saying, its clear that Dany will be seen as a villain by Westeros in general. She will not be seen as some savior, far from it. NOBODY KNOWS ABOUT HER. Aegon's claim is so because people know about him, he has forces at his disposal to validate him. Daenerys has Barristan the Bold, former slaves and savages in her ranks. Most of which dont speak the common tongue. This is a recipe for disaster.

I think this is genius, since we've been following Dany from the beginning, whereas Aegon is brand new to us, so George wants us to support Dany knowing that she is basically going to be viewed very badly, the strong focus on Westeros only POV's help this. Certainly. While I believe in Aegon (real or fake, it doesnt matter, I believe in the concept of Aegon), i don't think he will succeed. I do believe Daenerys to swoop in after his initial conquest, and slaughter everything in it's weakened state. But what could put out those infernal flames? ;)

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I think the political winds of Westeros are going to shift several times before the story is over.



I do think Aegon will become very popular, perhaps sitting the Iron Throne for a time. When Dany arrives, there will definitely be some initial hostility. But it's unclear whether Aegon will be able to ride a dragon. If he's a Blackfyre it's certainly possible; but somehow I think he won't, just because there seem to be few other ways for Dany to "slay" the lie that Aegon is Aegon.



So Dany will gain support because of her dragons and eventually supplant Aegon, though the realm will likely be very torn over the matter. Then she'll have to deal with the Others somehow, and then find some mount to ride to love, light her final fire and be betrayed. Then maybe Jon will rule, or Tyrion--hell, maybe even Sansa. Who knows.



But yeah, I think there will definitely be a stage where Aegon is extremely popular and Dany is viewed as an invading outsider. But that won't be the final stage.


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I think the political winds of Westeros are going to shift several times before the story is over.

I do think Aegon will become very popular, perhaps sitting the Iron Throne for a time. When Dany arrives, there will definitely be some initial hostility. But it's unclear whether Aegon will be able to ride a dragon. If he's a Blackfyre it's certainly possible; but somehow I think he won't, just because there seem to be few other ways for Dany to "slay" the lie that Aegon is Aegon.

So Dany will gain support because of her dragons and eventually supplant Aegon, though the realm will likely be very torn over the matter. Then she'll have to deal with the Others somehow, and then find some mount to ride to love, light her final fire and be betrayed. Then maybe Jon will rule, or Tyrion--hell, maybe even Sansa. Who knows.

But yeah, I think there will definitely be a stage where Aegon is extremely popular and Dany is viewed as an invading outsider. But that won't be the final stage.

i still want to see:

Aegon conquering king's landing, in a bloody struggle. but inevitably, tommen is dethroned, aegon sits, connington as hand.

Daenerys arrives, claims her rite to rule, Aegon says as his queen, but Daenerys is already betrothed to Victarian (in exchange for his iron fleet/passage to westeros)

Victarian/Daenerys slaughter a weakened king's landing/aegon's forces

suddenly

all the corpses, the bodies of tommen's forces, aegon's forces, and daenerys' recently killed open their new, blue eyes.

blackwater bay starts to get aggressive, as the bodies from the battle at blackwater emerge

a chill blows through the air

on to book 7

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i still want to see:

Aegon conquering king's landing, in a bloody struggle. but inevitably, tommen is dethroned, aegon sits, connington as hand.

Daenerys arrives, claims her rite to rule, Aegon says as his queen, but Daenerys is already betrothed to Victarian (in exchange for his iron fleet/passage to westeros)

Victarian/Daenerys slaughter a weakened king's landing/aegon's forces

suddenly

all the corpses, the bodies of tommen's forces, aegon's forces, and daenerys' recently killed open their new, blue eyes.

blackwater bay starts to get aggressive, as the bodies from the battle at blackwater emerge

a chill blows through the air

on to book 7

Ha, yeah, that'd be amazing.

And we know that Blackwater Bay can potentially freeze over in a hard winter, as it did after the False Spring. Can't you just imagine wights advancing across the frozen bay?

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