The "Winged Wolf" A Bran Stark Re-read Project - Part II ASOS & ADWD

[Mehmet Eren]

HEY, ALL!  PLEASE READ - I am dying for a response!

 

 

When Bran takes his first journey into the weirwood under the supervision of Bloodraven and Leaf, both of them eagerly await Bran's report.  They anticipate his response.

 

But neither of them expect Bran to skip the PRESENT and go right to the PAST.

 

Lord Brynden instructs Bran to slip his skin and travel through the tree roots to the hill’s surface to peer through the weirwood’s eyes and tell him what he sees.   however, when Bran “become[s] the tree”, in an instant he is home, in the heart tree of Winterfell’s godswood.  Bran covers a substantial distance that far exceeds Bloodraven’s initial goal for his pupil.

 

When Bran reveals that he saw his father cleaning his greatsword  Ice beneath the heart tree in Winterfell’s godswood, Leaf is quick to offer an explanation:  “You saw what you wished to see.  Your heart yearns for your father and your home, so that is what you saw” (458).

 

Leaf suggests that Bran’s visit to Winterfell is due to his emotional attachment to his home and his father.  Bran’s heart takes him there.  Bran is sure that his father is alive, but Bloodraven clarifies that Bran visits “shadows of days past”, where greenseers can call upon bygone days in rapid succession, a thousand human years in a moment. 

 

So

 

 

Even though Bran is far from Winterfell, even though he has traveled beyond the great ice barricade of the Wall,  and even though he is beneath a hill in a warded cave, the skinchanger in him travels far indeed for the FIRST time out as a GREENSSER.

 

Obviously, Bloodraven did not expect Bran to visit the PAST the FIRST time he weds the tree; as a matter of fact, the Last Greenseer probably anticipates another raven fiasco!  Bran had a wee bit of trouble with a raven the first time he learned to fly. And, the readers know more than Bloodraven, for all his ancient wisdom.  Readers know that Bran has been practicing in Hodor – Bran has tasted human blood and human flesh through Summer – and doesn’t Bran dine on Coldhand’s pork dinner?

 

Then, when Bran returns to his alcove, BAM!  He’s back in the tree again – the second time, the images race – hurtle – backward into time, as his teacher described in his lesson on the Sea of Shadows and Time is a River – and that Greenseers will be able to see through “gates” into the past.

 

Bloodraven answers Bran’s question Will I see my father again?” WITH “Once you have MASTERED your gifts, you may look where you will and see what he trees have seen, be it yesterday or last year or A THOUSAND AGES PAST” (ADwD 458).

 

So, if Bran goes to his alcove and travels about 6000-7000 years into the past – he sees the ancient Kings of Winter march by, and a possible blood sacrifice – and then he tastes the blood IN THE PAST as though it is spilled PRESENTLY – does this mean that Bran has “mastered his gifts”?  That is, according to Bloodraven?

 

I think this little event is proof that Bran’s gifts are well on their way to surpassing their teacher’s.

 

Did anyone notice that Bloodraven cuts the lesson short with “I am tired”.  I bet he is tired – he has a greenseer prodigy on his hands, OH MY!

well I am 100% agree Bran will pass Bloodraven THought not about bloodraven intention I still want him to one of the good!!! guys but recentaly I read theory about How Bloodraven and children want to obtain Bran body like Bloodraven time out so he will skinchange into Bran or ( Jon whatsoever ) well even it is possible Bloodraven can aim to live longer via Jon/Bran it is clear Bran gift is above expectation even first try out he can made things which he says impossible... The answear is we need WOW before predict end also I combine with hitch I get from the show ; first of all show is absolutely different creature now !!! but I fell like all the buzz about John snow is dead will lead his personality change so bloodraven skin change Jon again this will happen only 10-20%  they already plan to change Bran vision Bran ch 3 which my fav. ch in the hole book series ......as a shortly Bran will be stronger than bloodraven force is strong Strak :)

[BearQueen87]

Bran will absolutely, without question, surpass BR and I think BR knows it--and moreover something BR needs to happen.

[DarkSister1001]

Bran will absolutely, without question, surpass BR and I think BR knows it--and moreover something BR needs to happen.

Absolutely.  He needs to pass the torch and go into the curtain of light.  I think Bran's "natural" gifts are stronger than BRs and with proper instruction he'll exceed BRs expectations. 

 

I've been intentionally holding off on posting until we knew more about the board update. 

[BearQueen87]

Absolutely.  He needs to pass the torch and go into the curtain of light.  I think Bran's "natural" gifts are stronger than BRs and with proper instruction he'll exceed BRs expectations. 

 

I've been intentionally holding off on posting until we knew more about the board update. 

 

Just so you know, the board update will be in about 3ish weeks? But no posts from the reset to the update are being lost; Linda and Ran posted about it. We're all getting to keep our posts since the last reset.

[DarkSister1001]

 

Just so you know, the board update will be in about 3ish weeks? But no posts from the reset to the update are being lost; Linda and Ran posted about it. We're all getting to keep our posts since the last reset.

Yes ma'am, I saw that today and decided to go ahead and post again; I didn't articulate that well.  It's been tough not posting.  lol

[BearQueen87]

Going back to what DarkSister wrote:

 

 

Absolutely.  He needs to pass the torch and go into the curtain of light.  I think Bran's "natural" gifts are stronger than BRs and with proper instruction he'll exceed BRs expectations. 

 

I've been intentionally holding off on posting until we knew more about the board update. 

 

I just wanted to add that I think Bran's natural gifts are stronger than anyone on Planetos. He's also the person with the natural gifts who is being trained to use them.  Dany seems to have some magic in her but no idea how to wield it on command like Bran; Jon also has gifts in spades but he is still untrained and thus far not even really aware that he has said gifts (same goes with Arya).

[DarkSister1001]

Going back to what DarkSister wrote:

 

 

 

I just wanted to add that I think Bran's natural gifts are stronger than anyone on Planetos. He's also the person with the natural gifts who is being trained to use them.  Dany seems to have some magic in her but no idea how to wield it on command like Bran; Jon also has gifts in spades but he is still untrained and thus far not even really aware that he has said gifts (same goes with Arya).

Agreed.  Do you think BR reached out to Bran bc of the strength of his gift?   Jon would have probably been more easily accessible to BR given his mobility, not to mention the shared lineage, close proximity to each other and the shared involvement with the NW. 

[BearQueen87]

Agreed.  Do you think BR reached out to Bran bc of the strength of his gift?   Jon would have probably been more easily accessible to BR given his mobility, not to mention the shared lineage, close proximity to each other and the shared involvement with the NW. 

 

I think BR is preparing Bran for some role that only Bran can fulfill. Jon might have been easier, but Jon has a different role to play given his ice and fire blood. Bran, OTOH, is "ice" and only he can do the thing that BR wants him to do. Just like Dany is "fire" and can only do the thing she is meant to do (whatever it might be)--hence why I think BR sent Quaithe (Sheira Seastar) to tend to Dany.

[DarkSister1001]

 

I think BR is preparing Bran for some role that only Bran can fulfill. Jon might have been easier, but Jon has a different role to play given his ice and fire blood. Bran, OTOH, is "ice" and only he can do the thing that BR wants him to do. Just like Dany is "fire" and can only do the thing she is meant to do (whatever it might be)--hence why I think BR sent Quaithe (Sheira Seastar) to tend to Dany.

Good point.  In the next book, I think Bran will learn the truth of Jon's parentage via the weirwood net.   It would be cool if he looked through the trees at the God's Eye and saw the Tourney at Harrenhal and all that transpired afterwards.  He may even look for that since he had the story from Meera and seemed to want to know more about it.  I wonder if the truth is already known to BR or if he'll be just as surprised as Bran. 

[lightning]

Hii all, (first post here... love your work so far, really!)

there is somthing that i found wierd in the last line in bran's last chapter

 

"And through the mist of centuries the broken boy could only watch as the man's feet drummed against the earth... but as his life flowed out of him in a red tide, Brandon stark could taste the blood."

 

the first reference to bran as the "broken boy" makes me think maybe the second reference "Brandon stark" refer to the image brans witness. 

could it be that what we see is the original Brandon stark geting murdered/secrficed?

[DarkSister1001]

Hii all, (first post here... love your work so far, really!)

there is somthing that i found wierd in the last line in bran's last chapter

 

"And through the mist of centuries the broken boy could only watch as the man's feet drummed against the earth... but as his life flowed out of him in a red tide, Brandon stark could taste the blood."

 

the first reference to bran as the "broken boy" makes me think maybe the second reference "Brandon stark" refer to the image brans witness. 

could it be that what we see is the original Brandon stark geting murdered/secrficed?

Welcome!  It is odd the way he changes how he references what seems to be himself.   I always assumed (and I could be wrong) that it was him recognizing that the experience changed him.  He was now a man grown.  You bring up an interesting point, I'll have to look further into this.  :)

[Tijgy]

First of all, thanks for all the great analyses and the essays. It has been an very interesting (re)read!

I want also to apologize that my answer to the last posts come very late: sadly my real life did interfere(my last examinations of law school and my graduation; Yeah, I passed! And then started my holiday. I think I also needed some “cleanse” after last season GoT)

Analysis of Bran II

Thanks BQ! I really love your comparison between the Martin’s CotF and Tolkien’s Ainur. And I also believe in the idea they are some “guardians of the world” or more exactly “the guardians of the old” world, the world of their old gods, a world not yet touched by humankind, an world where they lived in harmony with nature, …

 

“In the world that men have made, there is no room for them, or us”

 

But sadly those times are gone: …

 

 

1. And if the cave is warded, how did Bloodraven and Coldhands come to work with each other? And how long has Coldhands been dead?

 

We know BR disappeared while he was ranging behind the wall. Like DarkSister (post #193), I think also CH is someone of the Night’s Watch. It is maybe even “the corpse” of one of his Raven’s Teeth. However they were all archers and Coldhands is not linked to a bow, … So there is no textual evidence for that.

Bloodraven & Satan

 

Apart from the questions about wights, I’d like to introduce here a link to another piece of literature, in this case the “Inferno” by Dante. The connection here might appear to be somewhat superficial but my hope is that when we get to the center of the cave, the connection will become more weighted when we look at Bloodraven and Dante’s version of Satan.
(…)
What I really want to focus on with this, section, however is one final literally allusion and that is returning to Dante’s “Inferno” and the 9^th Circle of Hell where Satan is trapped. Before I embark on this, I am not trying to suggest that Bloodraven is of the same cosmic evil as Satan is perceived in our world; he is not THE DEVIL nor he is he some sort of great evil seeking to overturn a universal God, but rather I think GRRM is playing with certain images and themes—most notably betrayal—to cast Bloodraven in the role of a sympathetic “devil.” This is more of a “Paradise Lost” sort of devil in which you have sympathy for the figure because he has been written as a tragic and almost romantic hero archetype, with GRRM’s own twist. Bloodraven’s own endgame—if it in line with the COTF—is balance and restoration and is so myopically focused on this goal that he is willing to do whatever it takes to achieve it, whatever the cost.
(…)
The color scheme of Satan in Dante is repeated in the Three Eyed Crow: blood, yellow/white, and black. Bloodraven has a “bloody blotch” on his face and a spray of “dark red leaves” sprouting from his skull; he has white skin and hair though in some spots you can see “brown and yellow bone” poking through; and finally, of course, Bloodraven is dressed “in ebony finery” and describes himself as once being “black of garb and black of blood.”
He may not have three heads like Satan (though he is a Targaryen so there is a natural three-headed beast image), but he does tell Bran, “I have been many things” and there are three important aspects to Bloodraven’s time out in Westeros: commander of the Raven’s Teeth during the First Blackfyre Rebellion that earned him the title of Kinslayer for killing Daemon Blackfyre; following this Bloodraven became the Hand of the King during which time, men feared that he was a sorcerer and dabbling in the black arts, and finally his last aspect, as the Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch.
More importantly, I think, is the reason behind Bloodraven’s banishment to the Wall: betrayal to his king. The King in Westeros isn’t exactly seen as the gods servant on Earth but the Targaryens do tend to think themselves above such gods, so by betraying Aegon V at the Great Council, BR is betraying his country, his family, his friend, his king, and his “god.” Lucifer was cast out of heaven and into Hell for betrayal of his god.
What does this mean for Bran? Again, I’m not trying to suggest that Bloodraven is literally the devil but rather by casting him with similar images and themes as other writers have cast their own Satan, we might get a better understanding of what Bloodraven wants with Bran. Satan is more than just an evil figure; he’s charismatically articulate. He has the ability to persuade and others to do his bidding (Milton’s scene in the Pandemonium from “Paradise Lost” comes to mind). He is singular in what he wants, myopically so. The devil’s purpose is to tempt; to take your desires and make them manifest. Bloodraven can’t help Bran walk again, but he can give him something better: he can show Bran how to fly.
(…)

 

I think you can indeed say that Bloodraven has a lot of similarities with “Satan”. When people wanted to illustrate Satan, they use mostly the colors “Red” and “Black”. BR typically wore the colors of “blood and smoke”: blood of course refers to red and smoke refers to “a dark grey that was mottled and streaked with black”.

Satan is also associated with the abilty to pursuade people or is at least associated in many folklore, literature, movies, … with temptation. This part of your analysis make me remember an old Dutch poem we had to read during my high school years: Beatrijs. The English (and also the Dutch) Wikipedia does actually not mention that it was the devil who tempted Beatrijs with some young man. Because she wanted to leave with this young man she left the convent, lived with him, got children, lived a life full of sins, ...

I think how Bloodraven appears in Bran’s dreams does actually indeed resemble somewhat how Satan tries to persuade, tempts his victims, … He enters Bran’s dreams, tries to persuade him to go north. He also enters Jojen’s dreams, …

I also looked if the third-eye has a connection with Satan in old folklore, myths, … It looks however it mostly originates from Eastern legends in which the third-eye is connected to mediation, out-of-body experiences (LOL; skinchanging is a sort of out-body experience, no?), …
However in the more useful sites, I never see the third-eye connected with Satan (There are however sites which say opening your third eye is also opening your way to demons, … But let’s just say those site were really weird)

But to conclude, I really loved how you, BearQueen, connected Bloodraven with Satan. But I also agree with you that Bloodraven is not literally the devil.

 

 

The literal connection between Bloodraven and Satan is actually strengthened by the atmosphere in the caves: the bones lying on the ground, how Bloodraven refers to darkness, …

 

 

“There he sat, listening to the hoarse whispers of his teacher. “Never fear the darkness, Bran.” The lord’s words were accompanied by a faint rustling of wood and leaf, a slight twisting of his head. “The strongest trees are rooted in the dark places of the earth. Darkness will be your cloak, your shield, your mother’s milk. Darkness will make you strong.”

It’s an interesting conversation as T3EC talks about embracing the darkness. He isn’t wrong that the strongest tress are rooted in darkness but as readers we are accustomed to seeing darkness as bad or evil. Whether or not T3EC has ulterior motives, we don’t know at this moment but could this be a clue by the author letting us know to pay attention?

 

So all those descriptions give you a very creepy feeling and make you feel that something dangerous is going to happen to our heroes (=Bran, Jojen, Meera and Hodor). When people want to prove the Jojenpaste theory, IRCC they also use that atmosphere to prove something ominous is going to happen. 

I have however some few remarks about this: 

1. Bloodraven’s skin was sensitive to light. So, to him darkness is actually safer to him than living in the (sun)light. So his preference for darkness is actually in that way not very strange and kind of realistic.

2. Darkness can have many meanings. It just can be the absent of light in the literal meaning. It can also have some metaphorical meanings. Did Bloodraven want to say with embracing the darkness that Bran should embrace his dark side, the bad elements of character? Darkness does also sometimes refer to the fact someone is in dark place, that someone is for example upset about something he lost; so did Bloodraven wanted to say Bran should start to grief about the things he lost (his legs, his family, …)
The latter is however IIRC the complete opposite what the 3EC actually Bran wanted to do in one of Bran’s earlier chapters. In that chapter the 3EC actually wanted Bran to repress his feelings, his memories about jaime pushing him:

 

A face swam up at him out of grey misy, shining with light, golden. “The thing I do for love,,” it said.
Bran screamed.
The crow took to the air, cawing. Not that, it shrieked at him. Forget that, you do not need it now, put it aside, put it away. (Bran III, GoT)

 

3. The enemy of R’hllor (by the awesome Wull called the Red Rahloo) is the Great Other, the god of dead, ice and darkness. In one of her visions Mel interprets Bloodraven (and Bran as his minion) as the enemy, as the Great Other.
The Great Other is actually "the Satan" in the religion of the Red Rahloo. So here makes GRRM another connection between Satan and Bloodraven. How ominous...

However, you must not forget that Mel’s interpretation of her visions are not always rights. So the vision does not actually automatically mean Bloodraven is the enemy in the fight against the Others.

Mel and Bloodraven are the two personages that can clarify the principles of their believes, of the religion of the God of Light and the old gods.* So it is interesting that both of them actually say the opposite.

Another opposition between the religion of the old gods and the religion of Red Rahloo, or at least between their followers is made by Leaf. Fire is very important for the rituals of the followers of the red god; at the same time Leaf says this about fire: “Fire burns them; fire always kills”(DwD, Bran II), which gave me the feeling the CotF are not entirely positive about fire. 

 

4. Like MoIaF already did, I think we must indeed ask ourself if the entire ominous atmosphere is a warning of the author that we need to pay attention, that maybe something dangerous is going to happen to our heroes…
Or is GRRM just playing with us?; with the fact that we are normally connect things in the darkness with evil, bad things…

 

One of the things GRRM wanted to accomplish with ASoIaF is teaching his readers that nothing is entirely white of black. So is he here maybe actually trying to say the fact BR and the CotF are living in the darkness, in a place were “light entered as a trespasser, unwanted and unwelcome", does not automatically mean they are evil?

 

Now that we've officially been introduced to Bloodraven, I wanted to come back to your post, as promised.
I sympathize with Bloodraven as well, though I still find him to be a very myopic individual. He is the "sympathy for the devil" character. I think he has been put in an impossible position of "knowing too much" about how the world might end and that has caused him to take measures that cost him his honor and his family and any respect Westeros may have had for him at one point. He actually reminds me a bit of Rhaegar and I'm 100% a Rhaegar fan girl (it's the harp playing... ;) ) But with BR, I think he knew what he would be giving up when he chose to commit certain acts; it's that the ends justified the means. In a way, that's honorable because what does your own personal honor and glory matter when the Long Night comes and everyone around you is dying? But it still doesn't erase--even if it helps explain--the actions taken.
(…)

 

You are absolutely right about the fact one of his personal motto’s is that “the ends justifies the means.”
But the question is why he would actually want Aenys death? Could it be that BR just did not want the throne in the hands of Blackfyre, because all those years fighting/scheming against them would be for nothing and/or because he wanted that the throne was still in the hands of the line of Dareon (fraternal love). Or did he know something more and was that the reason why Aenys needed to die in his eyes?

Some spoilers about Harry Potter (book 7):

[spoiler]
Bloodraven does actually reminds me of Dumbledore from Harry Potter, An old guy who mentors the young hero. Both are some sort of Machiavellian Types, using the hero for the Greater Good.

JKR about Dumbledore:

“Although [Dumbledore] seems to be so benign for six books, he’s quite a Machiavellian figure, really. He’s been pulling a lot of strings. Harry has been his puppet,” she explained. “When Snape says to Dumbledore [toward the end of ’Hallows’], ’We’ve been protecting [Harry] so he could die at the right moment’ — I don’t think in book one you would have ever envisioned a moment where your sympathy would be with Snape rather than Dumbledore.”

Yeah, I kind of hate Dumbledore now. And during the first six books you actually believe he is a very good guy. And then you know Dumbles was actually just using Harry! I am still not over it. 

[/spoiler]


Balance and restoration; Bran=Ice?
 

But if the COTF have taken it upon themselves to be the keepers of the world, then their agenda becomes a bit more clear: balance and restoration.
It is possible, then, that Bran is one key component in the restoration of the world, the other components (most likely) being Dany and Jon. I’ve been throwing this idea out there more and more with the re-read as Bran gets closer to the 3EC, but I don’t exactly think that the COTF and BR are on any one side—human or Other. I think it’s more likely that they are on the Universe’s side and that in order to restore balance, they have to get both sides—ice and fire—prepared for some sort of cataclysmic battle. Where the Citadel wants to eradicate magic altogether, the COTF and BR want to erase the byproducts of the breaking of the world—Others and dragons, specific ice and fire magic—and restore harmony to the earth so that the forces are working together and not in opposition. That’s why Bloodraven has been keeping such a close eye on Bran and why, if Queen Alysanne is right in what she proposed HERE Quaithe (Shiera Seastar) has been keeping a close eye on Dany for the same reasons—they are needed for what is to come.

Well I mostly associate Bran with ice magic and the power of winter. I don't think Bran is going to be a warm and fluffy kitten come the Battle for the Dawn. I'm not even convinced he's going to be on the same side as Dany and Jon (and I don't even think those are really going to be on the same side. I think it's going to be Fire--Dany--vs Ice--led by Bran who has been seduced into his new role--with Jon in the middle trying to find a fix the world from breaking more.) Every song needs its balance.

I think you are right about the fact COTF and BR are not on the side of the Others and even not on the side of humans. They are indeed probably trying to restore the balance.

At first, I was totally against the idea that Bran would be the champion of Ice. Bran is indeed associated as a Stark with Ice. However with his close connections to the weirwoods, would he not be more on the side of the COFT, BR? Did they not call him to help them? The powers Bran is gaining have not directly to do something with more “earth-ly” magic than ice. So I have some trouble to see Bran as the champion of Ice.

 

But now I am thinking about it, I believe it becomes more probable. 

MARTIN’S MEANING in his GREY MISTS/FOG MOTIF
 

@Evita, I really loved this analysis.

 

Analysis Bran III

 

@MoIaF, Thanks for the good analysis

 

“No one must ever know”
Yet another violation of the skinchangers code, not eating human flesh while skinchanged into your animal, Bran of course is unaware of this. However, although we haven’t been privy to his thoughts regarding this, there has to be a part of him that knows that eating human flesh cannot be a good thing.
This is another instance in the series where we see our heroes doing questionable things and we are forced to confront these behaviors. Does Bran’s use of Hodor and his feasting of humans flesh make him bad, or does the ambiguity of being a “real” person who can be a hero is being brought to the forefront by the author once again.

 

think it is going to far to call him “bad” or “evil” for this. However, it makes him less “pure” and “innocent”. So in my opionion, I think it is about the fact he is indeed a “real” person who is capable of good and bad actions.

The worst thing about Bran’s behaviour is that he is “warging” Hodor consciously and that he knows it is something he shouldn’t do.
 

My own remarks

 

Origin of the powers of skinchangers, greenseers, ...

 

 

The chosen ones are not robust, and their quick years upon the earth are few, for every song must have its balance (DwD, Bran III)

 

Here Bloodraven tells us that the magical abilities of a greenseer has some physical consequences. While they are magical, their bodies are actually much weaker. 

 

GRRM gives only for few people with magical abilities associated to the old gods in the books background informantion: 

- Bran is a very powerful warg and greenseer(?), he is the only one of the Stark children who can consciously use warging abilities, ... His powers really started to grow after he fell and he lost his legs. He spent a long period in a coma

- Bloodraven is the other greenseer. Bloodraven is born with a birth defect, a lack of pigment in his skin, ... All his life he has a skin sensitive to the sun. (There are normally also other problems albino's can have) At the Battle of Redgrass Field, he was also injured and lost an eye. 

- Jojen. When he was young, he nearly died of greywater fewer. He was visited by the 3EC (BR loves to visit sick young children) and was then cursed/blessed with the greensight. IIRC, Jojen's body is not very physically strong, probably as result of the greywater fever?

- Varamyr Sixskins is seen as one of the most powerful skinchanger. He is however very small. He did not get his name until he was four. He tells about himself: "Lump had been born a month before his proper time, and he was sick so often that no one expected him to live".

 

Is it just coincidence that the people who are granted very powerful abilities by the old gods are at the same time physical more limited than other people? Is it some sort of "price"/sacrifice they had to pay to have those powers? 

 

The other Stark Children are at the same time also very powerful wargs and they did not suffer at least from some physical problems, or at least not serious/permanent ones:

Jon burned his hand seriously at the wight attack and his hand still has some scars. 

Arya was temporarily blinded. 

Robb was injured at the crag (Yeah, I believe all of the Stark children are wargs. Grey Wind was normally Robb's shadow. All the time he was following Robb, at least until the "death" of Bran and Rickon and his marriage)

Their powers did however exist before the moment they were injured. 

 

So it can be a coincidence that Bran, Bloodraven, Jojen and Varamyr are more physically weaker. But still, I think it still peculiar.

 

The old gods

 

In my post (#129; when we were discussing Varamyr) I explained my following idea:  

 

 

 

I believe the old gods are the collective of all green seers, children who went into the weir wood trees when they died or (maybe even the collective of all what lived during in history who went into the animals, earth, trees, ...) 

 

In Bran III, we find some fragment which confirms this idea:

 

- "Most of him has gone into the tree", explains the singer Meera called Leaf.

- "What do the trees remember?" (Bran)

   "The secrets of the old gods," said Jojen Reed. (...) "Earth and water, soil and stone, oaks and elms and willows, they were here before us all and will still remain       when we are gone"

    "So will you," said Meera.

- "When they died, they went into the woods, into lead and root, and the trees remembered. All their songs and spells, their histories and prayers, everything they       knew about this world. Maesters will tell you that the weirwoods are sacred to the old gods. The singers believe they are the old gods. When singers die          they become part of that godwood. (Jojen, he even says it literally).     

 

[LongRider]

Brilliant post Tijgy, thanks.

 

:thumbsup:

[Lost Melnibonean]

Here are my to coppers on Bran III, Game...

Quote

Fly, a voice whispered in the darkness, but Bran did not know how to fly, so all he could do was fall.

 

. . .

 

The ground was so far below him he could barely make it out through the grey mists that whirled around him, but he could feel how fast he was falling, and he knew what was waiting for him down there.

The grey mists are a hint that the voice was coming from Bloodraven. Of course that would not become evident until after The Mystery Knight was published.

 

Quote

He closed his eyes and began to cry.

 

That won't do any good, the crow said. I told you, the answer is flying, not crying. How hard can it be? I'm doing it. The crow took to the air and flapped around Bran's hand.

 

"You have wings," Bran pointed out.

 

Maybe you do too.

 

Bran felt along his shoulders, groping for feathers.

 

There are different kinds of wings, the crow said.

 

. . .

 

Now, Bran, the crow urged. Choose. Fly or die.

 

Death reached for him, screaming.

 

Bran spread his arms and flew.

 

Wings unseen drank the wind and filled and pulled him upward.

Bran is the winged wolf.

 

Quote

He saw Winterfell as the eagles see it, the tall towers looking squat and stubby from above, the castle walls just lines in the dirt. He saw Maester Luwin on his balcony, studying the sky through a polished bronze tube and frowning as he made notes in a book.

Winter is coming.

 

Quote

He saw his brother Robb, taller and stronger than he remembered him, practicing swordplay in the yard with real steel in his hand.

We had just learned three chapters earlier that Rodrik decided it was time for Robb to wield live steel.

 

Quote

He saw Hodor, the simple giant from the stables, carrying an anvil to Mikken's forge, hefting it onto his shoulder as easily as another man might heft a bale of hay.

Up to this point, all we know about Hodor is that he is a stable boy who smiles a lot and never says anything but "Hodor." So this is a foreshadowing of Hodor's utility to Bran the Broken.

 

Quote

At the heart of the godswood, the great white weirwood brooded over its reflection in the black pool, its leaves rustling in a chill wind. When it felt Bran watching, it lifted its eyes from the still waters and stared back at him knowingly.

At this point, we can recall how Catelyn felt the Winterfell weirwood was watching her, and that Bran was wary of it, but all we know so far is that the children of the forest had carved the faces in the trees before the coming of the First Men across the Narrow Sea, and that south of the Neck, the last weirwoods had been cut down or burned out a thousand years ago, except on the Isle of Faces where the green men keep a silent watch. Of course now, we realize that this line is telling us that Bloodraven was plugging Bran into the weirnet.

 

Quote

He looked east, and saw a galley racing across the waters of the Bite. He saw his mother sitting alone in a cabin, looking at a bloodstained knife on a table in front of her, as the rowers pulled at their oars and Ser Rodrik leaned across a rail, shaking and heaving. A storm was gathering ahead of them, a vast dark roaring lashed by lightning, but somehow they could not see it.

We know that Catelyn is traveling with the Valyrian steel dagger with the dragonbone hilt and Rodrik to Kings Landing by some route faster than the Kingsroad. And we learn in the next chapter that they travel to White Harbor, and by ship from that city to Kings Landing, and that along the way, they pass a violent storm that makes Rodrik sick. The storm is also a metaphor for what awaits House Stark in the War of the Five Kings.

 

Quote

He saw his father pleading with the king, his face etched with grief. He saw Sansa crying herself to sleep at night, and he saw Arya watching in silence and holding her secrets hard in her heart.

In the previous chapter we see the Ned plead with Robert on behalf of Arya and then Lady. We see Sansa become distraught at the royal command to put down Lady, and we know that Arya is furious about her sisters betrayal. Then we read another little trio. . .

 

Quote

There were shadows all around them. One shadow was dark as ash, with the terrible face of a hound. Another was armored like the sun, golden and beautiful. Over them both loomed a giant in armor made of stone, but when he opened his visor, there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood.

The first two shadows are easy. The Hound and Jaime fit the images to a tee. The first is Joffreys sworn sword, and the second is Jaime Lannister, who was the first to commit a belligerent act between Houses Lannister and Stark in what would become the War of the Five Kings, when he pushed Bran from the tower window. Both had just been leading searches for Arya with hostile intent. And both would act violently against The Ned in Kings Landing. The third shadow is a complete mystery at this point. Later, we would see clues that Gregor and Petyr seem to fit this imagery best. My guess is Petyr.

 

Quote

He lifted his eyes and saw clear across the narrow sea, to the Free Cities and the green Dothraki sea and beyond, to Vaes Dothrak under its mountain, to the fabled lands of the Jade Sea, to Asshai by the Shadow, where dragons stirred beneath the sunrise.

Bran's vision here traces Daeneryss arc through Game and the birth of her dragons. The eggs came from the Shadow Lands beyond Asshai; that the drags were stirring beneath the sunrise was a hint that they were about to hatch.

 

Quote

Finally he looked north. He saw the Wall shining like blue crystal, and his bastard brother Jon sleeping alone in a cold bed, his skin growing pale and hard as the memory of all warmth fled from him.

Interestingly, this is the first time we see Jon associated with blue. We know that Ned associates Lyannas death with a bed of blood and roses, but we dont know what sort of roses yet. We do know that after Jon asked Benjen to take him to the Wall, he apparently became resentful that he was not welcome in Kings Landing and could no longer remain at Winterfell even if he chose. Moreover, we read just four chapters earlier, about his disappointment upon learning that the men of the Nights Watch were not as noble as he had imagined. And we would discover two chapters later how miserable Jon was during his initial time at the Wall.

 

Quote

Finally he looked north. He saw the Wall shining like blue crystal, and his bastard brother Jon sleeping alone in a cold bed, his skin growing pale and hard as the memory of all warmth fled from him. And he looked past the Wall, past endless forests cloaked in snow, past the frozen shore and the great blue-white rivers of ice and the dead plains where nothing grew or lived. North and north and north he looked, to the curtain of light at the end of the world, and then beyond that curtain. He looked deep into the heart of winter, and then he cried out, afraid, and the heat of his tears burned on his cheeks.

 

Now you know, the crow whispered as it sat on his shoulder. Now you know why you must live.

 

"Why?" Bran said, not understanding, falling, falling.

 

Because winter is coming.

 

Bran looked at the crow on his shoulder, and the crow looked back. It had three eyes, and the third eye was full of a terrible knowledge. Bran looked down. There was nothing below him now but snow and cold and death, a frozen wasteland where jagged blue-white spires of ice waited to embrace him. They flew up at him like spears. He saw the bones of a thousand other dreamers impaled upon their points.

This passage recalls what we read about in the prologue. And after the release of the 1993 letter from The George to his publisher, we know that we will read about the War for the Dawn after we finish the Second Dance of the Dragons.

 

Quote

Its beak stabbed at him fiercely, and Bran felt a sudden blinding pain in the middle of his forehead, between his eyes.

We will learn later about the significance of the three-eyed crow, that having your third-eye opened allows you to see things not visible to normal men.

[evita mgfs]

On 8/14/2015 at 4:53 PM, Tijgy said:

First of all, thanks for all the great analyses and the essays. It has been an very interesting (re)read!

I want also to apologize that my answer to the last posts come very late: sadly my real life did interfere(my last examinations of law school and my graduation; Yeah, I passed! And then started my holiday. I think I also needed some “cleanse” after last season GoT)

Analysis of Bran II

Thanks BQ! I really love your comparison between the Martin’s CotF and Tolkien’s Ainur. And I also believe in the idea they are some “guardians of the world” or more exactly “the guardians of the old” world, the world of their old gods, a world not yet touched by humankind, an world where they lived in harmony with nature, …

 

 

But sadly those times are gone: …

 

 

 

We know BR disappeared while he was ranging behind the wall. Like DarkSister (post #193), I think also CH is someone of the Night’s Watch. It is maybe even “the corpse” of one of his Raven’s Teeth. However they were all archers and Coldhands is not linked to a bow, … So there is no textual evidence for that.

Bloodraven & Satan

 

 

I think you can indeed say that Bloodraven has a lot of similarities with “Satan”. When people wanted to illustrate Satan, they use mostly the colors “Red” and “Black”. BR typically wore the colors of “blood and smoke”: blood of course refers to red and smoke refers to “a dark grey that was mottled and streaked with black”.

Satan is also associated with the abilty to pursuade people or is at least associated in many folklore, literature, movies, … with temptation. This part of your analysis make me remember an old Dutch poem we had to read during my high school years: Beatrijs. The English (and also the Dutch) Wikipedia does actually not mention that it was the devil who tempted Beatrijs with some young man. Because she wanted to leave with this young man she left the convent, lived with him, got children, lived a life full of sins, ...

I think how Bloodraven appears in Bran’s dreams does actually indeed resemble somewhat how Satan tries to persuade, tempts his victims, … He enters Bran’s dreams, tries to persuade him to go north. He also enters Jojen’s dreams, …

I also looked if the third-eye has a connection with Satan in old folklore, myths, … It looks however it mostly originates from Eastern legends in which the third-eye is connected to mediation, out-of-body experiences (LOL; skinchanging is a sort of out-body experience, no?), …
However in the more useful sites, I never see the third-eye connected with Satan (There are however sites which say opening your third eye is also opening your way to demons, … But let’s just say those site were really weird)

But to conclude, I really loved how you, BearQueen, connected Bloodraven with Satan. But I also agree with you that Bloodraven is not literally the devil.

 

 

The literal connection between Bloodraven and Satan is actually strengthened by the atmosphere in the caves: the bones lying on the ground, how Bloodraven refers to darkness, …

 

 

So all those descriptions give you a very creepy feeling and make you feel that something dangerous is going to happen to our heroes (=Bran, Jojen, Meera and Hodor). When people want to prove the Jojenpaste theory, IRCC they also use that atmosphere to prove something ominous is going to happen. 

 

I have however some few remarks about this: 

1. Bloodraven’s skin was sensitive to light. So, to him darkness is actually safer to him than living in the (sun)light. So his preference for darkness is actually in that way not very strange and kind of realistic.

2. Darkness can have many meanings. It just can be the absent of light in the literal meaning. It can also have some metaphorical meanings. Did Bloodraven want to say with embracing the darkness that Bran should embrace his dark side, the bad elements of character? Darkness does also sometimes refer to the fact someone is in dark place, that someone is for example upset about something he lost; so did Bloodraven wanted to say Bran should start to grief about the things he lost (his legs, his family, …)
The latter is however IIRC the complete opposite what the 3EC actually Bran wanted to do in one of Bran’s earlier chapters. In that chapter the 3EC actually wanted Bran to repress his feelings, his memories about jaime pushing him:

 

 

3. The enemy of R’hllor (by the awesome Wull called the Red Rahloo) is the Great Other, the god of dead, ice and darkness. In one of her visions Mel interprets Bloodraven (and Bran as his minion) as the enemy, as the Great Other.
The Great Other is actually "the Satan" in the religion of the Red Rahloo. So here makes GRRM another connection between Satan and Bloodraven. How ominous...

However, you must not forget that Mel’s interpretation of her visions are not always rights. So the vision does not actually automatically mean Bloodraven is the enemy in the fight against the Others.

Mel and Bloodraven are the two personages that can clarify the principles of their believes, of the religion of the God of Light and the old gods.* So it is interesting that both of them actually say the opposite.

Another opposition between the religion of the old gods and the religion of Red Rahloo, or at least between their followers is made by Leaf. Fire is very important for the rituals of the followers of the red god; at the same time Leaf says this about fire: “Fire burns them; fire always kills”(DwD, Bran II), which gave me the feeling the CotF are not entirely positive about fire. 

 

4. Like MoIaF already did, I think we must indeed ask ourself if the entire ominous atmosphere is a warning of the author that we need to pay attention, that maybe something dangerous is going to happen to our heroes…
Or is GRRM just playing with us?; with the fact that we are normally connect things in the darkness with evil, bad things…

 

One of the things GRRM wanted to accomplish with ASoIaF is teaching his readers that nothing is entirely white of black. So is he here maybe actually trying to say the fact BR and the CotF are living in the darkness, in a place were “light entered as a trespasser, unwanted and unwelcome", does not automatically mean they are evil?

 

 

You are absolutely right about the fact one of his personal motto’s is that “the ends justifies the means.”
But the question is why he would actually want Aenys death? Could it be that BR just did not want the throne in the hands of Blackfyre, because all those years fighting/scheming against them would be for nothing and/or because he wanted that the throne was still in the hands of the line of Dareon (fraternal love). Or did he know something more and was that the reason why Aenys needed to die in his eyes?

Some spoilers about Harry Potter (book 7):

Bloodraven does actually reminds me of Dumbledore from Harry Potter, An old guy who mentors the young hero. Both are some sort of Machiavellian Types, using the hero for the Greater Good.

JKR about Dumbledore:

“Although [Dumbledore] seems to be so benign for six books, he’s quite a Machiavellian figure, really. He’s been pulling a lot of strings. Harry has been his puppet,” she explained. “When Snape says to Dumbledore [toward the end of ’Hallows’], ’We’ve been protecting [Harry] so he could die at the right moment’ — I don’t think in book one you would have ever envisioned a moment where your sympathy would be with Snape rather than Dumbledore.”

Yeah, I kind of hate Dumbledore now. And during the first six books you actually believe he is a very good guy. And then you know Dumbles was actually just using Harry! I am still not over it. 

Balance and restoration; Bran=Ice?
 

 

I think you are right about the fact COTF and BR are not on the side of the Others and even not on the side of humans. They are indeed probably trying to restore the balance.

 

At first, I was totally against the idea that Bran would be the champion of Ice. Bran is indeed associated as a Stark with Ice. However with his close connections to the weirwoods, would he not be more on the side of the COFT, BR? Did they not call him to help them? The powers Bran is gaining have not directly to do something with more “earth-ly” magic than ice. So I have some trouble to see Bran as the champion of Ice.

 

But now I am thinking about it, I believe it becomes more probable. 

MARTIN’S MEANING in his GREY MISTS/FOG MOTIF
 

@Evita, I really loved this analysis.

 

Analysis Bran III

 

@MoIaF, Thanks for the good analysis

 

 

think it is going to far to call him “bad” or “evil” for this. However, it makes him less “pure” and “innocent”. So in my opionion, I think it is about the fact he is indeed a “real” person who is capable of good and bad actions.

The worst thing about Bran’s behaviour is that he is “warging” Hodor consciously and that he knows it is something he shouldn’t do.
 

My own remarks

 

Origin of the powers of skinchangers, greenseers, ...

 

 

Here Bloodraven tells us that the magical abilities of a greenseer has some physical consequences. While they are magical, their bodies are actually much weaker. 

 

GRRM gives only for few people with magical abilities associated to the old gods in the books background informantion: 

- Bran is a very powerful warg and greenseer(?), he is the only one of the Stark children who can consciously use warging abilities, ... His powers really started to grow after he fell and he lost his legs. He spent a long period in a coma

- Bloodraven is the other greenseer. Bloodraven is born with a birth defect, a lack of pigment in his skin, ... All his life he has a skin sensitive to the sun. (There are normally also other problems albino's can have) At the Battle of Redgrass Field, he was also injured and lost an eye. 

- Jojen. When he was young, he nearly died of greywater fewer. He was visited by the 3EC (BR loves to visit sick young children) and was then cursed/blessed with the greensight. IIRC, Jojen's body is not very physically strong, probably as result of the greywater fever?

- Varamyr Sixskins is seen as one of the most powerful skinchanger. He is however very small. He did not get his name until he was four. He tells about himself: "Lump had been born a month before his proper time, and he was sick so often that no one expected him to live".

 

Is it just coincidence that the people who are granted very powerful abilities by the old gods are at the same time physical more limited than other people? Is it some sort of "price"/sacrifice they had to pay to have those powers? 

 

The other Stark Children are at the same time also very powerful wargs and they did not suffer at least from some physical problems, or at least not serious/permanent ones:

Jon burned his hand seriously at the wight attack and his hand still has some scars. 

Arya was temporarily blinded. 

Robb was injured at the crag (Yeah, I believe all of the Stark children are wargs. Grey Wind was normally Robb's shadow. All the time he was following Robb, at least until the "death" of Bran and Rickon and his marriage)

Their powers did however exist before the moment they were injured. 

 

So it can be a coincidence that Bran, Bloodraven, Jojen and Varamyr are more physically weaker. But still, I think it still peculiar.

 

The old gods

 

In my post (#129; when we were discussing Varamyr) I explained my following idea:  

 

 

In Bran III, we find some fragment which confirms this idea:

 

SUPER JOB!  I am working in a longer piece comparing elements of the Catholic Mass with Bran in his magic cave.  Following is the crux of what is called the Transubstantiation of Christ, part of the ritual known as Communion.

When I saw that you are comparing Satan to Bloodraven, I thought a Christian take might appeal to you.

By Bran ingesting weirwood paste, which the CotF likely harvested from the tree to which Bloodraven is bound, Bran literally and figuratively is partaking of the body and blood of his teacher Lord Brynden, whom Leaf tells readers has given himself to the tree.

Bran’s Resurrection

Martin symbolizes Bran’s death through the fates of the Miller’s boys whom Theon uses to replace the Stark children in an effort to hide his failings.  He is too proud to admit that the Stark kiddoes outsmarted him.

The Miller’s corpses are on display, flayed, burned, and hung, a metaphoric crucifixion of innocents.  Meanwhile, Bran [and company] move underground, hiding in the crypts, in Ned’s empty tomb.  Thus, Bran is at rest in the darkness wherein his transformation takes root:  he opens his third eye, he wargs Summer for days, and he visits Jon’s dream.

After the sack of Winterfell, Bran “rises” from the crypts, a metaphoric resurrection, and beyond the Wall in a cave of skulls, Bran will experience an “Ascension” when he flies in the ravens.

****Above, you note how those blessed with gifts are physically weaker, or in some way handicapped.  This appears to be true; however, did you notice how Bran grows stronger the farther north he travels?  Martin emphasizes this by using Jojen's health as a foil for Bran's.  Jojen grows weaker as Bran grows stronger.

My theory has been that Bran draws strength through his bond with his direwolf Summer.

[Tijgy]

9 hours ago, evita mgfs said:

I am working in a longer piece comparing elements of the Catholic Mass with Bran in his magic cave.  Following is the crux of what is called the Transubstantiation of Christ, part of the ritual known as Communion.

When I saw that you are comparing Satan to Bloodraven, I thought a Christian take might appeal to you.

By Bran ingesting weirwood paste, which the CotF likely harvested from the tree to which Bloodraven is bound, Bran literally and figuratively is partaking of the body and blood of his teacher Lord Brynden, whom Leaf tells readers has given himself to the tree.

Bran’s Resurrection

 

Martin symbolizes Bran’s death through the fates of the Miller’s boys whom Theon uses to replace the Stark children in an effort to hide his failings.  He is too proud to admit that the Stark kiddoes outsmarted him.

The Miller’s corpses are on display, flayed, burned, and hung, a metaphoric crucifixion of innocents.  Meanwhile, Bran [and company] move underground, hiding in the crypts, in Ned’s empty tomb.  Thus, Bran is at rest in the darkness wherein his transformation takes root:  he opens his third eye, he wargs Summer for days, and he visits Jon’s dream.

After the sack of Winterfell, Bran “rises” from the crypts, a metaphoric resurrection, and beyond the Wall in a cave of skulls, Bran will experience an “Ascension” when he flies in the ravens.

Thanks. 

I already love your idea  

In the Bran growing powers reread I myself suggested somewhere that Bran's wings, his rise out crypts, the man-cave of Winterfell, his ascensions, his greenseer power (which can be seen as a quest to learn the truth, ...) might relate to Plato's allegory of the cave wherein the prisoner also ascends out of the cave to see finally the light of the sun which symbolizes IIRC the truth? (The post is actually rather a first attempt)

I think in the post I did not really mention it but IIRC ((Greek) philosophy has never been my best subject and it has been a while since ) the allegory of the cave symbolizes how someone in the end will become a philosopher (the ones has the ability to see the Ideas and know the truth). Because philosophers are focused on the search of the truth, are in Plato's view of a perfect state the philosophers the ones who should be the leaders of the state (Go King Bran!). So in my opinion Bran's journey can be seen as a metaphor for becoming normatively the best leader and by that way is a legitimation for Bran's possible rule?

This also falls in line with some meta on Bran's or the Stark's symbolic role as the Fisher King which IIRC is a symbolic tale for the legitimation of the Stark's rule (for example).  

This is of course my own personal (weird) speculation. But I honestly believe the whole cave, ascension, flying, the truth, darkness, ... are indeed very important symbolic elements to Bran's story no matter in what way GRRM wanted to use them. So I would love to read your idea on Bran's Ascensions . 

9 hours ago, evita mgfs said:

****Above, you note how those blessed with gifts are physically weaker, or in some way handicapped.  This appears to be true; however, did you notice how Bran grows stronger the farther north he travels?  Martin emphasizes this by using Jojen's health as a foil for Bran's.  Jojen grows weaker as Bran grows stronger.

My theory has been that Bran draws strength through his bond with his direwolf Summer.

In AGOT Robb suggested that hearing Summer (and the rest of the wolves) did really give indeed strength to Bran and it is indeed very interesting that the one with the wolf grows stronger and Jojen grows weaker. 

I believe it might even just said in the text: 

"In a sense. Those you call the children of the forest have eyes as golden as the sun, but once in a great while one is born amongst them with eyes as red as blood, or green as the moss on a tree in the heart of the forest. By these signs do the gods mark those they have chosen to receive the gift. The chosen ones are not robust, and their quick years upon the earth are few, for every song must have its balance. But once inside the wood they linger long indeed. A thousand eyes, a hundred skins, wisdom deep as the roots of ancient trees. Greenseers."

To have balance, the ones who are blessed/cursed with the powers are indeed physical weaker. But greenseers/wargs have the possibility to gain strength from their animals/the trees (like Bloodraven). And sadly Jojen who is cursed/blessed with powers of the old gods is not a greenseer/skinchanger who can rely on his animal/the trees to gain strength  (this is so unfair!)

(or this is at least my theory to contradict the Jojen paste which claims there is need of a blood sacrifice so that Bran can have his powers. Bran actually paid already a very (high) price: is legs. This disability creates a balance within his story: while he has probably strong powers, he does not have his legs and actually lost his dream to become a knight. So I am not really sure why Jojen has to be turned into a paste but IMO he will indeed in the end die as a result of his physical weakness. This physical weakness would be then a balance to Jojen's own powers who were needed to liberate Bran's powers. Oh wait, IMO Jojen also becomes then  a sacrifice for Bran's journey to become a greenseer  (realizing some things where you write them is always kind of weird). He just does not turn into a paste and he actually already (chose to?) made that sacrifice.   

[evita mgfs]

5 hours ago, Tijgy said:

Thanks. 

I already love your idea  

In the Bran growing powers reread I myself suggested somewhere that Bran's wings, his rise out crypts, the man-cave of Winterfell, his ascensions, his greenseer power (which can be seen as a quest to learn the truth, ...) might relate to Plato's allegory of the cave wherein the prisoner also ascends out of the cave to see finally the light of the sun which symbolizes IIRC the truth? (The post is actually rather a first attempt)

I think in the post I did not really mention it but IIRC ((Greek) philosophy has never been my best subject and it has been a while since ) the allegory of the cave symbolizes how someone in the end will become a philosopher (the ones has the ability to see the Ideas and know the truth). Because philosophers are focused on the search of the truth, are in Plato's view of a perfect state the philosophers the ones who should be the leaders of the state (Go King Bran!). So in my opinion Bran's journey can be seen as a metaphor for becoming normatively the best leader and by that way is a legitimation for Bran's possible rule?

This also falls in line with some meta on Bran's or the Stark's symbolic role as the Fisher King which IIRC is a symbolic tale for the legitimation of the Stark's rule (for example).  

This is of course my own personal (weird) speculation. But I honestly believe the whole cave, ascension, flying, the truth, darkness, ... are indeed very important symbolic elements to Bran's story no matter in what way GRRM wanted to use them. So I would love to read your idea on Bran's Ascensions . 

In AGOT Robb suggested that hearing Summer (and the rest of the wolves) did really give indeed strength to Bran and it is indeed very interesting that the one with the wolf grows stronger and Jojen grows weaker. 

I believe it might even just said in the text: 

"In a sense. Those you call the children of the forest have eyes as golden as the sun, but once in a great while one is born amongst them with eyes as red as blood, or green as the moss on a tree in the heart of the forest. By these signs do the gods mark those they have chosen to receive the gift. The chosen ones are not robust, and their quick years upon the earth are few, for every song must have its balance. But once inside the wood they linger long indeed. A thousand eyes, a hundred skins, wisdom deep as the roots of ancient trees. Greenseers."

To have balance, the ones who are blessed/cursed with the powers are indeed physical weaker. But greenseers/wargs have the possibility to gain strength from their animals/the trees (like Bloodraven). And sadly Jojen who is cursed/blessed with powers of the old gods is not a greenseer/skinchanger who can rely on his animal/the trees to gain strength  (this is so unfair!)

(or this is at least my theory to contradict the Jojen paste which claims there is need of a blood sacrifice so that Bran can have his powers. Bran actually paid already a very (high) price: is legs. This disability creates a balance within his story: while he has probably strong powers, he does not have his legs and actually lost his dream to become a knight. So I am not really sure why Jojen has to be turned into a paste but IMO he will indeed in the end die as a result of his physical weakness. This physical weakness would be then a balance to Jojen's own powers who were needed to liberate Bran's powers. Oh wait, IMO Jojen also becomes then  a sacrifice for Bran's journey to become a greenseer  (realizing some things where you write them is always kind of weird). He just does not turn into a paste and he actually already (chose to?) made that sacrifice.   

Wow!  Awesome stuff.  I remember your Cave analogy, and I am going to bring it forward on my thread and write a good reply to what you have theorized.  Since Wizz is occupied the next few days, I should be able to catch up.  I love PMing with him, and we have been sharing videos and the like on GoT.  Link me to anything that you listen to or watch.  I enjoy reading and watching or listening to anything GoT.

You probably mention it in your cave analogy, but I have read on the Forums speculations that the lower levels of the crypts are actually underground caves/caverns.  Some postulate that an ice/and/or fire dragon sleeps below as well.  But the crypts as caves is on point with your discovery of Plato's cave.

In my blood motif thread, I put forth the idea that after the direwolves ingest blood, their Stark counterpart displays special strength of body or mind.  Robb demonstrates uncharacteristic strength after Grey Wind kills an elk, with Summer's help, in the wolfwoods. Robb lifts the elk onto his horse, no easy feat.  He then slays several men who threaten Bran, along with his direwolf:  they take down the most offenders than any others in the fight.

I posted a lot of it on my thread, but I am not as keen as you to add convenient links to my older material.  It is easier for me to repost my essays directly from my personal files, which I know better than what and where I posted on the forums.  Oh, after Summer kills Bran's would-be-assassin and licks Cat's fingers, only then does Bran finally wake from his coma, with Summer at his side.  Furthermore, Summer is the one who notifies Bran that he is crippled - before Bran learns from anyone else.  It is one of my favorite themes.

Another theory I have is that ALL the deities are somehow connected, as they are in real life.  Themes in all religions and mythologies are similar:  great floods, rebirths, crucifixions, etc.  So I think that the godhoods will need to come together to balance the world of ice and fire.  The Starks are the keys to this happening:  Bran is earth, Arya is water, and Sansa is air/wind/birds.  Rickon is a force of nature, the uncontrollable sides to all the elements, and Jon is ice and fire.  That's it in a nutshell.

Your insights have greatly inspired me to do more investigating and writing.  Thanks so much for your WONDERFUL REPLY!  I'll be back, here or elsewhere, or both places, with more thoughtful analyses.  What I wrote here is an off-the-cuff reply.

[evita mgfs]

Since we have been discussing the "third-eye", this is part of an essay I wrote about Bran's growing powers, and speculation on how he reaches Jon through a wolf-dream:

Bran Opens Jon’s Third Eye

 

“Don’t be afraid, I like it in the dark. No one can see you, but you can see them. But first you have to open your eyes. See? Like this. And the tree reached down and touched him”.

 

·        Because Bran influences and inspires Jon’s wolf dream, the greenseer in the tree leans over to touch Ghost between the eyes, a symbolic gesture that compels the warg to open his third eye, after which the forest setting suddenly vanishes.

 

Bran deftly executes opening Jon’s third-eye in a wolf dream, which is unlike Bran’s own painful experience when the three-eyed crow forces open Bran’s third-eye in a dream, ordering Bran again to “Fly or die!” [ACoK 260].

 

After Bran prays to the Old Gods to send him dreamless sleep, Bran receives an answer by way of a “nightmare” not a dream, and Bran thinks, “they [the Old Gods] mocked his hopes, for the nightmare they sent was worse than any wolf dream” [260].  The pitiless three-eyed crow attacks a pleading Bran with his “terrible sharp beak,” blinding both Bran’s eyes.  Then, the three-eyed crow pecks at Bran’s brow”, finally wrenching out “slimy . . . bits of bone and brain” [260].  This sorcery allows Bran to see again, through all his eyes. 

 

What materializes in the vision  is pure terror: Bran relives his crippling fall, and even more frightening than a wolf dream.  Bran sees “the golden man” who saves Bran, then pushes him, excusing his murderous act with these words: “The things I do for love” [260].

 

In actuality, Bran’s nightmare has inspiration from real events that he experienced recently in his daily life, and what Bran “hears” has such an impact on Bran that he becomes physically ill, unable to breathe, his blood roaring in is ears

 

Visiting guests Cley Cerwin and his knights are joking about Stannis making his claim to the throne based upon Joffrey’s bastardy.

 

Several key sentences bandied about by the bannermen evocate a visible reaction from Bran:

 

1.     “Queen Cersei bedded her brother” [259].

2.    “Small wonder he’s [Joffrey] faithless, with the Kingslayer for a Father” [259].

3.    “the gods hate incest.  Look how they brought down the Targaryens” [260].

 

Sadly, in three lines, Martin sums up what Bran witnesses from outside the window of the gargoyle guarded tower:  Bran’s vision, sent via the wizardry of the three-eyed crow deliberately after Cley and his knights jolt Bran’s waking memory, is evidence of incest, proof that the Queen and the Kingslayer are guilty as charged, but more importantly, the three-eyed crow imparts to Bran undeniable verification of the identity of the golden knight who causes Bran to fall.

 

A greenseer must learn to see and to acknowledge what is true, no matter how painful the truth may be.  Bran buries his most unpleasant memory deep in his subconscious, disguising it in darkness, choosing not to acknowledge to himself what he now knows for sure to be true. 

 

Even after the agony of his nightmare,  Bran is not keen on acceptance; however, Bran denies many truths about himself, something that Jojen Reed learns while educating a reluctant Bran on his powers.  Bran gets angry at Jojen’s talk of Bran as a warg in Summer, and he doesn’t understand how to open his third-eye.  Nor does he share with the Reeds, or anyone else, that the Kingslayer caused his fall.

[evita mgfs]

About Jojen paste, I debunked that theory long ago - it would violate the sacred laws of hospitality if the CotF served Jojen to Bran.

However, dismissing this possibility does not dismiss the fact that Bran has eaten shady meat - as in men are meat - either himself or through his direwolf Summer.

[Lost Melnibonean]

8 minutes ago, evita mgfs said:

About Jojen paste, I debunked that theory long ago - it would violate the sacred laws of hospitality if the CotF served Jojen to Bran.

However, dismissing this possibility does not dismiss the fact that Bran has eaten shady meat - as in men are meat - either himself or through his direwolf Summer.

If thE Jojen paste theory is correct, then Jojen knew why he was going, and what would happen when he got there. Would the laws of hospitality, assuming they apply to the singers, be violated under such circumstances?