Jump to content

Aegon and/or JonCon showing up earlier in the series?


Good Guy Garlan

Recommended Posts

Do you think GRRM could've pulled this off? Many people, myself included, think Team Aegon showed up too late in the game, but could they have popped up earlier in another POV or something?

Obviously some modifications would be needed and things would have to be moved here and there, but how would you do it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I never really think GRRM should or should not do something involving his work. ASoIaF is his baby. He'll develop it the way he sees fit for the sake of the story.



With that said there are some things that I dislike here and there but I can't say I'd want the creator to listen to whining fans when something doesn't go their way.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Obviously some modifications would be needed and things would have to be moved here and there, but how would you do it?

I think he tried. Rereading aGoT, I kinda realised that the reason Griff is named Jon is (despite he will share his name with R's son) that maybe Martin wanted Illyrio and Varys to mention Jon but make Arya (and Ned) believe they were talking about Jon Arryn. Hence, the mention of the "Hands". Jon was also Hand for Aerys, as Jon Arrys was before he died. Of course, the plot needed Ned to be skeptic about what Arya listened, so, dropped off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you think Aegon is legitimate, sure his introduction is too late. But if he is fake, why not? He looks like plan B for Varys & Illyrio, or the second stage of a larger plan. If he is legitimate, I don't really understand why Illyrio was helping Viserys and Daenerys before. I would be surprised if he is legitimate. But elsewise, I see no problem.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you think Aegon is legitimate, sure his introduction is too late. But if he is fake, why not? He looks like plan B for Varys & Illyrio, or the second stage of a larger plan. If he is legitimate, I don't really understand why Illyrio was helping Viserys and Daenerys before. I would be surprised if he is legitimate. But elsewise, I see no problem.

This. If he turns out to be a false messiah, the timing of his introduction is damn near perfect.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't understand why people say stuff like this. Based on what? For all we know he could end up being a worse ruler than Aerys.

Because many regions have been torn apart by war, and there is a lot of hostility toward the current ruling family. Most regions have no reason to be hostile to AeGriff. AeGriff could help stabilize the north and Riverlands by supporting restoration of the Starks in the north and Tullys in the Riverlands. The Martells should be a natural supporter. The Tyrells would be smart to take any chance to leave the sinking Lannister-Baratheon ship, especially with the Ironborn they aren't likely to get much help with. He could turn out to be a poor king, but he is the candidate currently in Westeros with the best opportunity to restore some amount of peace to the kingdom.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do you think GRRM could've pulled this off? Many people, myself included, think Team Aegon showed up too late in the game, but could they have popped up earlier in another POV or something?

Obviously some modifications would be needed and things would have to be moved here and there, but how would you do it?

Well, JonCon in his current role may have been referred to in Game... "If one Hand can die, why not a second?" And if Aegon is the third head of the dragon, and if green alludes to him, blue alludes to Jon, and black alludes to Daenerys, then we have been given clues since very early in the series... "Under the sea, smoke rises in bubbles, and flames burn green and blue and black. I know, I know, oh, ..." All we needed was the Rosetta Stone that was released a little more than a year ago... "The Princess and the Queen, or, the Blacks and the Greens."
Link to comment
Share on other sites

His appearance doesn't fit what Illyrio was doing with Dany and Viserys in earlier novels. By the end of volume five, Westeros is ready for another civil war, Others are coming, and winter is on. Dany should be there to take advantage of the mess, but she's delayed in Meereen. Enter Aegon, fake or real, as a stopgap measure to deal with Dany's delay.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think he tried. Rereading aGoT, I kinda realised that the reason Griff is named Jon is (despite he will share his name with R's son) that maybe Martin wanted Illyrio and Varys to mention Jon but make Arya (and Ned) believe they were talking about Jon Arryn. Hence, the mention of the "Hands". Jon was also Hand for Aerys, as Jon Arrys was before he died. Of course, the plot needed Ned to be skeptic about what Arya listened, so, dropped off.

Hmmmm, interesting

If you think Aegon is legitimate, sure his introduction is too late. But if he is fake, why not? He looks like plan B for Varys & Illyrio, or the second stage of a larger plan. If he is legitimate, I don't really understand why Illyrio was helping Viserys and Daenerys before. I would be surprised if he is legitimate. But elsewise, I see no problem.

Well, yeah, but I was talking more in terms of reader investment in the character. Like, we've known Dany since the first book, but Aegon just showed up, so Dany has a considerable advantage over him in that sense

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, yeah, but I was talking more in terms of reader investment in the character. Like, we've known Dany since the first book, but Aegon just showed up, so Dany has a considerable advantage over him in that sense

Reader investment was something GRRM had to sacrifice in order to keep the revealing of Aegon's existence a secret.

Look, as I see it, in the GoT, there are two main players: LF and Varys. If we consider Feast and Dance one single storyline (which it is at the end), then it's in this one humongous book when we finally find out what they were up to all this time. LF and Varys very much ended their participations by having his intentions revealed (which I believe are honest, hence the BIG REVEALING). And, Aegon is to Varys what the Vale is to LF a medium to the end, and they are using Sansa and Jon to achieve it, who might end up being their doom.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think JonCon and Varys would have risked putting their plan into motion until Tywin was dead and the realm was in total dysfunction under Cersei. Since Tywin dies at the end of SoS and Aegon is introduced in the beginning of DwD (which takes place right after SoS), I think he's introduced at the earliest possible time he could have been.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, yeah, but I was talking more in terms of reader investment in the character. Like, we've known Dany since the first book, but Aegon just showed up, so Dany has a considerable advantage over him in that sense

Ok. But nothing says we have to invest more in him than Ned or Robb. I loved them, but GRRM could not have them longer and show us still the same story. We can't say something should have been different if we do not know the whole story. What would become of Daenerys storyline if we knew from the beginning she had a nephew with a better claim than her?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It would have been nice if before Dany was being married to Drogo, she maybe run into "Young Griff" and Duck nearby pentos doing something, but that's so cliche lol



But yeah, I would have liked some more concrete evidence. But IIRC he didnt even know who the three eyed Crow would be ultimately in AGOT, just that he was connected with the Targaryens, so perhaps he knew about Aegon, just not how he would show up in the story(in a pale boat in book 5)


Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think JonCon and Varys would have risked putting their plan into motion until Tywin was dead and the realm was in total dysfunction under Cersei. Since Tywin dies at the end of SoS and Aegon is introduced in the beginning of DwD (which takes place right after SoS), I think he's introduced at the earliest possible time he could have been.

Yes, but aDwD is still the fifth book in real life. If he had been introduced in aFfC then it would have been much better. To me, the beginning of the fourth book would have been the perfect time to introduce fAegon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, but aDwD is still the fifth book in real life. If he had been introduced in aFfC then it would have been much better. To me, the beginning of the fourth book would have been the perfect time to introduce fAegon.

As JonCon's Red Beard said AFFC and ADWD are actually one big book. We could discuss if it was smart to make two separate novels out of it, but that would be another discussion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...