Lord Damian Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 There must be some signifigance to this woman or at least her child and we can presume she got what she prayed for, a son. I think Mance Rayder may have been a love child sired by Lord Rickard but the mother was rejected when he married a woman of better political advantage. The woman may have been a commoner as well but given Mance's age (described as middle aged) assume early 40s or late 30s, Eddard was appox 34 at death which meant Brandon was would have been 36-37, it fits. Also, She may have been Rickard's true wife who was secretly put asside for a bride that helped Rickard in "Southron Ambitions" If I am right about Mance's mom being the pregnant woman in that her and Rickard married in secret but put asside, thus, her praying for a son to avenge her, then Mance would potentially be "Trueborn Heir to Winterfell" and the pink letter is at minimal, partially or whole his work. There is a possibilty that he and Ramsay are in a partnership.I want input on this potential bombshell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markg171 Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 It was probably the daughter from Bael the Bard. The wildlings would of course say that she loved Bael to grow the legend of Bael, but that might not have been the truth. And the son did get revenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted March 1, 2015 Author Share Posted March 1, 2015 It was probably the daughter from Bael the Bard. The wildlings would of course say that she loved Bael to grow the legend of Bael, but that might not have been the truth. And the son did get revenge. Yeah, I don't think she was raped by Bael, maybe a little ashamed of it but I have this strong gut feeling that it is Mance's momma. Mance seems a little attached to the Starks for some odd reason etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Mance was a Wildling, found north of the Wall. The visions Bran sees are going backwards in time and by the time he got to that woman, it would have been back before Mance's parents' generation. Mance is far more likely to be descended from Bloodraven than Rickard. The hints are subtle but they are there. And Bloodraven is very interested in the Starks! Mance also knows about the Others, and will know the history. There is something in Winterfell that he's looking for. Doesn't make him a Stark, just a smart guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KINGpanther Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Why would Mance team with Ramsay? Putting aside the whole potential Stark/Bolton animousity, Ramsay is a psycho and not a good ally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted March 1, 2015 Author Share Posted March 1, 2015 Mance was a Wildling, found north of the Wall. The visions Bran sees are going backwards in time and by the time he got to that woman, it would have been back before Mance's parents' generation. Mance is far more likely to be descended from Bloodraven than Rickard. The hints are subtle but they are there. And Bloodraven is very interested in the Starks! Mance also knows about the Others, and will know the history. There is something in Winterfell that he's looking for. Doesn't make him a Stark, just a smart guy. Than who do you think the woman was?, her child ? and the father? . You may be right but so far it seem to be a potential fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadlines? What Deadlines? Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Probably not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Mance is far more likely to be descended from Bloodraven than Rickard. He's a secret Targaryen? Oh, noes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markg171 Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 I know it's from the show, but this also might be a subtle indication about Mance from the upcoming season https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNVYaBfb3RA Mance is just nodding along as Jon lists his accomplishments, but when Jon mentions pride, Mance immediately bristles and says "Fuck my pride". We don't have the context of the scene, but I believe that Jon is trying to convince Mance to bend the knee to Stannis here and Mance is refusing. But why is his pride the reason why he gets angry? In the books he won't bend the knee because it means a loss of freedom, but here he gets angry at the thought of his pride and bending the knee. So he seemingly can't accept Stannis as his king. So maybe there's something more there concerning Mance's character and why the idea of pride and bending the knee makes him angry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadlines? What Deadlines? Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 They were arguing over who was going to pitch and who was going to catch. Let that sear into you brains for a moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 There must be some signifigance to this woman or at least her child and we can presume she got what she prayed for, a son. I think Mance Rayder may have been a love child sired by Lord Rickard but the mother was rejected when he married a woman of better political advantage. The woman may have been a commoner as well but given Mance's age (described as middle aged) assume early 40s or late 30s, Eddard was appox 34 at death which meant Brandon was would have been 36-37, it fits. Also, She may have been Rickard's true wife who was secretly put asside for a bride that helped Rickard in "Southron Ambitions" If I am right about Mance's mom being the pregnant woman in that her and Rickard married in secret but put asside, thus, her praying for a son to avenge her, then Mance would potentially be "Trueborn Heir to Winterfell" and the pink letter is at minimal, partially or whole his work. There is a possibilty that he and Ramsay are in a partnership. I want input on this potential bombshell. She could have been the wife of a stark lord killed in the skagos rebellion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Given that the visions go back in time, bloodraven being the father doesn't make sense, and Rickard being the father does fit chronologically. Not sure what timeline your looking at Lady Blizzborn, maybe you interpret events differently than I do but I thought the common interpretation of the next vision of Old Nan and Dunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 I think the pregnant woman is Old Nan, not the woman who kissed Dunk. Hodor is not a descendant of Dunk. He has giant's blood. Old Nan was wildling born. She came with Raymun's host. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hos the Hostage Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 There must be some signifigance to this woman or at least her child and we can presume she got what she prayed for, a son. I think Mance Rayder may have been a love child sired by Lord Rickard but the mother was rejected when he married a woman of better political advantage. The woman may have been a commoner as well but given Mance's age (described as middle aged) assume early 40s or late 30s, Eddard was appox 34 at death which meant Brandon was would have been 36-37, it fits. Also, She may have been Rickard's true wife who was secretly put asside for a bride that helped Rickard in "Southron Ambitions" If I am right about Mance's mom being the pregnant woman in that her and Rickard married in secret but put asside, thus, her praying for a son to avenge her, then Mance would potentially be "Trueborn Heir to Winterfell" and the pink letter is at minimal, partially or whole his work. There is a possibilty that he and Ramsay are in a partnership.I want input on this potential bombshell.Lord Rickard married some Northern woman. Catelyn was the first Southerner, non First Men descendant to be married to a lord Stark. But rest of the theory could be right. If the woman was a wildling captured and kept at the castle like Osha, and some Stark raped her, for which she swears revenge on him. The well known story of Mance's parentage could be a lie said to save the honor of Stark lords. Maybe Qhorin and some other senior rangers knew the truth. It was like Qhorin handpicked Jon Snow for the spy job as soon as he met Jon. He may have thought Mance won't kill Jon not to become a kinslayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerevanin Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 I thought it could be Ramsay's mother. Didn't Roose say that he raped her and killed her husband? That could be quite a reason to beg for revenge. Plus it happened in the North where the old gods are worshipped. I'm not sure what the lady would do at Winterfell but why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bironic Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Lord Rickard married some Northern woman. Catelyn was the first Southerner, non First Men descendant to be married to a lord Stark.But rest of the theory could be right. If the woman was a wildling captured and kept at the castle like Osha, and some Stark raped her, for which she swears revenge on him.The well known story of Mance's parentage could be a lie said to save the honor of Stark lords. Maybe Qhorin and some other senior rangers knew the truth. It was like Qhorin handpicked Jon Snow for the spy job as soon as he met Jon. He may have thought Mance won't kill Jon not to become a kinslayer.The Tullys are First Men according to TWOIAF. And there have been Southerners before her. At least one Royce and one Blackwood, and these are only the ones we know of. The greater part of Stark lineage is unknown to us.I thought the mother in Bran's vision was one of the She Wolves of Winterfell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oafkeeper Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 I think Bloodraven's dick probably stopped working when he was hooked up to the life-support tree. Just saying. Mance is what he seems: A son of a wilding and a member of the Night's Watch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Weirwoods Eyes Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 I'm pretty much certain it is Melantha Blackwood. If you look at the Stark family tree you can see the big line of Artos, Roderick, Donnar, Errold, Brandon, Alysanne, Berena & Willam. Willam was married to Lyanne Glover who gave birth to Brandon, Brandon is the boy Brandon who Old nan came to winterfell to nurse after his mother died in childbed. Old nan is the young girl kissing a tall knight in the vision directly next to the one of the pregnant woman. Dunk is headed to winterfell and it's him kissing her, Willam re married Melantha Blackwood and it seems very likely that this is part of the She Wolves of Winterfell plot Melantha had a daughter by Willam, and a son. Edwyle who went on to be lord. BUT if Willam dies during her pregnancy and the daughter was born first. This gives a perfect reason for a pregnant old gods following widowed lady of winterfell to be praying for a Son. Because her position is at risk, she only has a girl and Willam had lots of Brothers. I propose that Roderick the wandering wolf returns during the story which centres around the remaining sisters and widows vieing for power, and takes the seat, or attempts to. And Melantha gets it back when she births a much desired and prayed for son. If you tie this in with the fact that later down the family line Edwyles son Rickard marries Rodericks daughter Lyarra it makes a lot of sense. As they are re binding the aggrieved sides of the family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greymoon Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 I think it's possible the woman is Marna Locke, wife of Edwyle Stark. They only had one son together, Rickard, Ned's father... this would suggest that 1) one of the spouses died before another child could be conceived, or 2) that all other children of that union died. Edwyle and Marna having only one son, is part of the reason the Stark family dwindled down to only one branch, that and Rickard's marriage to Lyarra Stark. Edwyle Stark is mentioned by Catelyn to Robb, we don't know how he died...but, we known that Rickard had ambitions of strengthening the north's influence in the realm -- whether you buy into the southron ambition theory or not, it is clear that Rickard wanted the Starks out of the isolation of the north.... and this could tie into the 'revenge' that the pregnant woman prayed for. That the woman is Bran's great-grandmother makes more sense than her being a random Stark who has no relation to the current members of that House. She could be Arya Flint as well, who only had two daughter... in favor for Arya Flint, is the fact that she is mentioned by Jon to Alys, in the very same book. At her wedding, Jon tells Alys that his father's maternal grandmother was a Flint... Arya Stark was named after her, (or rather, GRRM named Arya Flint after Arya Stark) so it's possible GRRM has something particular in mind for her... it's possible too, that Rodrick Stark returned from his wandering years and married because so many Starks were killed.... Either of these women could be one of the 'She-Wolves'. The vision likely happened sometime around or after Aegon's visit to Winterfell. Between ~ 215 and Rickard's (or Lyarra's) birth (around 230 - 249 AC). The Citadel has a larger time frame from 215 to 290, but tbh, I think we can dismiss the vision as showing Lyarra Stark...She had three sons, four children, and presumably died before her husband.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greymoon Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 I'm pretty much certain it is Melantha Blackwood. If you look at the Stark family tree you can see the big line of Artos, Roderick, Donnar, Errold, Brandon, Alysanne, Berena & Willam. Willam was married to Lyanne Glover who gave birth to Brandon, Brandon is the boy Brandon who Old nan came to winterfell to nurse after his mother died in childbed. Old nan is the young girl kissing a tall knight in the vision directly next to the one of the pregnant woman. Dunk is headed to winterfell and it's him kissing her, Willam re married Melantha Blackwood and it seems very likely that this is part of the She Wolves of Winterfell plot Melantha had a daughter by Willam, and a son. Edwyle who went on to be lord. BUT if Willam dies during her pregnancy and the daughter was born first. This gives a perfect reason for a pregnant old gods following widowed lady of winterfell to be praying for a Son. Because her position is at risk, she only has a girl and Willam had lots of Brothers. I propose that Roderick the wandering wolf returns during the story which centres around the remaining sisters and widows vieing for power, and takes the seat, or attempts to. And Melantha gets it back when she births a much desired and prayed for son. If you tie this in with the fact that later down the family line Edwyles son Rickard marries Rodericks daughter Lyarra it makes a lot of sense. As they are re binding the aggrieved sides of the family. That's possible as well....Rickard and Lyarra's marriage would be a result/resolution of this conflict by the next generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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