Ser Arthur Hightower Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Ned is the Hand and yet Jaime attacked him, put him in a coma and GOT AWAY WITH IT. Robert even told Ned to apologize to Jaime. You seem to be ignoring the obvious, Tyrion is the Roberts brother in law. Him being kidnapped is an attack on the Royal family. Yet Robert just wants peace and orders Ned to have Tyrion released. The idea that the Hand being attacked and put in a coma is OK in the Kings Landing, but Ned merely being captured in the Riverlands is worse is crazy. The worst case scenario is Tywin being executed, the best case scenario is Robert making both parties apologize and make peace. You really should try reading the books once in a while. Here is what Robb leaves Winterfell: We also see the Umbers resorting to using Green boys and old men and Alys Karstark complain that there was not enough men to bring in the last harvest. You say there are more men in White Harbor, fair enough, but there can also be more men in the Banefort, Crakehall or any number of Westerland settlements. Actually he says to make peace with Jaime, which is rather different to apologising to Jaime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Arthur Hightower Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 1. Because they were completely taken off guard and had a quarter of the kingdom effectively cut off by Tywin. Yet they still managed to raise 30,000 (four thousand at Golden Tooth, ten thousand at Riverrun, five thousand to add to Robb's force, and eleven thousand at the fords), not counting whatever forces went home for harvest or were spread thin to defend from Clegane's raiders (it was stated that they lost a lot of men due to that). Where is this roving army of mercenaries Tywin can hire? Why would they follow him when the Riverlands and North can also buy mercenaries? Why did he recruit from freaking Essos if he could just hire more mercenaries? 2. Wishful thinking at best. A direct attack on the king's authority is not something that can be shrugged off. Yes, they are. They're both possibly even more powerful. The Riverlands were only "crushed" because they were taken completely off guard by Tywin's quick militarization (an advantage of the Westerlands) and his defiance of the king's peace. Robb gathered 20,000 men fairly quickly, and in subsequent books many more thousands of men are raised in the North without even tapping into the core reserves (mainly Manderly, but also Dustin, Ryswell, etc.). Robb was completely smacking around the Lannisters until the Tyrells intervened, because Tywin got in way over his head by taking on two kingdoms at the same time. Before the Tyrells joined the Lannisters: two of Tywin's hosts had been obliterated. Another one was about to get curb-stomped by Stannis. The only one he had left was shrinking every day and was unable to even get back West, in addition to being outnumbered by the local Riverlands-North forces (not that it mattered much; they got their asses kicked by just Edmure's 11,000). His homelands were being ravaged by Robb, with him powerless to stop it. The Lannisters were getting completely destroyed past the opening stages of the war, and if the Tyrells hadn't contributed their massive power, the war would have been quite short. Heck, if Stannis hadn't been delayed several days by a storm, the war would have also been quite short (no way the Tyrells would try to storm the city after Stannis digs himself in, especially since many of the Tyrell bannermen want to join Stannis anyway, and he has most of the nobles with him). We don't know how many Rivermen fought at Riverrun or beneath the Golden Tooth, those numbers are entirely speculative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilEye Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 An absurdly optimistic "worst case" scenario, and an even more absurdly optimistic best case scenario. A kingdom has been invaded, the lords are gathering their strength, and the king has been directly attacked. There's no way to stop it now. Tywin getting executed would be the best case scenario. The worst case scenario is House Lannister itself ceasing to exist, at least as one of the Great Houses. A lord gathering his military strength? A kingdom invaded? The king's own forces attacked? To me, it looks like the best case scenario in this situation is Balon keeps his head, remains lord of House Greyjoy, and House Greyjoy remains overlords of the Iron Islands. Well, would you look at that, that's what happened. But you're right; Robert absolutely must execute Tywin, at the very least. There's simply no way around it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Tywin getting executed would be the best case scenario. The worst case scenario is House Lannister itself ceasing to exist, at least as one of the Great Houses. Hahahahahahaha this is mental. Why would he wipe out his wifes House, his own children have a claim on those titles and lands, there is Zero percent chance that he would wipe them out or replace them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raiyne388 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 I've always felt that most people disliking Stannis is a matter of perspective. he was written to dislike in the early books but if you were objective he was clearly a decent man and in fact the rightful king. Tyron being one of the most intelligent men in Westerod is fully aware of that and is also aware of Stannis' iron will be persevere and win the throne: of course Stannis will likely parish in the drive of winterfell which is a damn shame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tseka Posted March 27, 2015 Author Share Posted March 27, 2015 noun a person with a psychopathic personality, which manifests as amoral and antisocial behavior, lack of ability to love or establish meaningful personal relationships, extreme egocentricity, failure to learn from experience, etc Seems fairly accurate description of Tywin to me. Especially the amorality, the lack of ability to love and ego. All three of his children would agree, especially Tyrion. To the OP, I'm not sure about Tywin respecting or liking Stannis. He does recognize that he's a formidable adversary and one to be taken seriously. But beyond that, Tywin wouldn't hesitate for a moment to put his head on a pike. His whole personality is crafted from the experience he had of a child- of seeing his father disrespected and embarrassed and thus committing himself to be a man worthy of fear and respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GallowsKnight Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Err most Stannis fans believe that Donal Noye was wrong and that Stannis is the true Steel Or that Stannis was Iron, but was forged into true steel after the Blackwater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Onion Kniggit Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 His whole personality is crafted from the experience he had of a child- of seeing his father disrespected and embarrassed and thus committing himself to be a man worthy of fear and respect. Not to mention he himself was constantly belittled and tormented by Aerys during his time at Kings Landing as well as made fun of behind his back by the other lords at court, in spite of all the things he's accomplished. That's another striking similarity between Tywin and Stannis when you think about it. Both have accomplished some of the greatest achievements of their time without getting any real credit or respect for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForgottenKnight Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Something like that yes. Both are experienced and reputable battle commanders. Both men also share a very intense integrity to their beliefs. Where other men would falter in times of great adversity, they do not relent and refuse defeat under all circumstances. Both men also have a keen understanding of strategy and the realities of what it takes to fight your enemy. Tywin and Stannis also share a great deal of discipline and honesty. Of all the military commanders fighting in Westeros, these two have accomplished the most. I think they would recognize each other as similar men and had circumstances been otherwise, would have been unstoppable together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Onion Kniggit Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I think they would recognize each other as similar men and had circumstances been otherwise, would have been unstoppable together. Imagine if you also throw Randyll Tarly into the mix as well Thanks a lot Cersei! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForgottenKnight Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Imagine if you also throw Randyll Tarly into the mix as well Thanks a lot Cersei! Now that the Mountain is "dead", Loras melted, Jamie one-handed, and Brianne captured, there aren't any super epic Knights fighting in Westeros right now. If either one had a true champion then I think the scales would have slid a bit more. To be fair, Ser Davos has probably been more useful with his diplomacy than anyone else has been with their sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tseka Posted April 28, 2015 Author Share Posted April 28, 2015 It's interesting because Tywin thought of Robert Baratheon as a drunk oaf and a dumb brute but he clearly holds Stannis in a higher regard. Probably because Stannis has that stoic element about him much like Tywin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truly Just Man Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Why coy? Okay, let's play: do younger brothers possess a claim, or is it exclusive to the eldest brother?They possess a claim and their claim is pretty much down to their place in the line of succession.You can argue all year about what would have Renly probably done if 'this' or unless 'that', but he is dead. Which is pretty much all right since he tried to get the throne without having any claim. And choosing to fight your brother over the Iron Throne he has legitimate claim over, having the people who almost starved you to death behind your back is pretty much pretty shite move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 The guy certainly doesn't mind killing children out of spite. Just look at the Targ kids. It wasn't out of spite, as is stated in the asoiaf books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wavey Sauce Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 He saw first hand how lethal Stannis was in the Greyjoy rebellion, after Tywins fleet was burned, Stannis got stuff in control and set a great trap which was the big turning point. Tywin was always just a very smart guy. He knew that unless Stannis was dead, he was going to keep coming and was going to be a major pain in the ass. Even after battle defeats he knew the troubles would not be over until he was dead or captured Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 It was Vegetius who said the enemy is to be destroyed by famine. If you wanna argue with the premier ancient military authority go ahead. Don't bother, I guess no one who disagrees with Tywins military tactics in this regard has studied military history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 I do love Tywin discussions. They certainly help you with your postcount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wavey Sauce Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Really?? The man extinguished 2 entire houses...reynes and tarbrecks....didn't he drown most of the tarbrecks when they retreated underground? yeah totally not a psychopath :rolleyes: Also dont forget what he did to Tyrions first love. How he made him watch as she was raped by all of his soldiers and then made him go last Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batbob45 Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 I wonder when they saw each other if Tywin got along with Stannis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wavey Sauce Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 That would be Tywin and Roose actually. Maybe Brynden Meh Tywin was getting schooled by Robb Stark every which way. If not for the red wedding plot he was getting crapped on. Even in Roberts Rebellion, Tywin stayed out like a scared 5 year old. He could have joined either side during the end of the war and made a huge impact. But he stayed out and sacked KL to try and show he was down for the rebel cause. But back to my main point, Robb Stark made him look like a joke, Jaime ended up a prisoner and Robb won every battle he was in and outsmarted him every which way. I mean even when the scout returned to Tywin to tell him Robbs message on what he was doing........how the hell did he fall for that? Why would they just release a scout to talk smack? Red flags should have been going off left and right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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