Greymoon Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 1) The Meaning of Hodor: Osha says Hodor has Giant blood.... who are the Giants of the North? Why, the Umbers of course.... so what is the meaning of 'Hodor'? just a hint at Hodor's parentage, namely, the name of his father Hother Umber. Hother Whoresbane Umber. ;) thoughts? Hodor is over seven feet tall....The Greatjon is a very large man, nearly seven feet tall. Smalljon was nearly as tall and large as his father... 2) Tormund Giantsbane... When Tormund Talltalker tells the story of how during a particularly harsh winter he hid in the belly of a sleeping She-Giant, and crawled out come spring -- earning himself the monicker Tormund Giantsbabe, it's possible that what he really means, is that his mother had Umber blood. Or was an Umber. Mors Umber's daughter was abducted by wildlings. Mors is a very old man, uncle to the Greatjon, so it's quite possible for him to be Tormund Grandfather....making Tormund and the Greatjon as belonging to the same Umber generation.... Tormund's son Toregg is also called, Toregg the Tall. I'm not the first to mention that, so I don't get any credit for it :), but I've never seen a discussion on the possible repercussions Tormund's ancestry could have on the story... Does it matter, at all? What is the implication of secret Umbers running around the North? The Smalljon is dead, the Greatjon a prisoner.... Mors and Hother are old men...it's not like the Umbers couldn't do with a few more 'heirs' to Last Hearth.... How will Mors Umber react to Tormund Giantsbabe? might this be a uniting factor between northerners and wildings? Also...who else thinks Tormund Husband to Bears, had an affair with Maege Mormont? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamnDirtyApe Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Hodor's giant stature comes from the coupling of his ancestors Old Nan and Duncan the Tall. It is known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinner Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Hodor's giant stature comes from the coupling of his ancestors Old Nan and Duncan the Tall. It is known.It is known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greymoon Posted March 2, 2015 Author Share Posted March 2, 2015 Hodor's giant stature comes from the coupling of his ancestors Old Nan and Duncan the Tall. It is known. is there an SSM about it, or is that pure speculation? I have heard it said before, so I'm not unfamiliar with the theory, but it is just a theory, is it not? Brienne is suposedly descended from Ser Duncan as well. In any case, a child has two parents, a mother and a father. Old Nan's great-grand-daughter or whatever, would be Hodor's mother. That doesn't exclude Hother Umber as his father, in any way or form. So, no proper counter argument, try again ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musashisamurai Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 I believe that GRRM did say that there were 3 descendants of Dunk in the story, and that his descendants WOULD appear. I take that as Hodor, Brienne, and Brienne's father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 I believe that GRRM did say that there were 3 descendants of Dunk in the story, and that his descendants WOULD appear. I take that as Hodor, Brienne, and Brienne's father. Unless those genes came from Brienne's mother, who is dead, thus leaving us with one more descendant. I like this thread. Secret Umbers are way more fun than Secret Targs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balerion's Whiskers Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Hodor's actual name is Walder so there's no connection between his name and Hother's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamnDirtyApe Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 is there an SSM about it, or is that pure speculation? I have heard it said before, so I'm not unfamiliar with the theory, but it is just a theory, is it not? Brienne is suposedly descended from Ser Duncan as well. In any case, a child has two parents, a mother and a father. Old Nan's great-grand-daughter or whatever, would be Hodor's mother. That doesn't exclude Hother Umber as his father, in any way or form. So, no proper counter argument, try again ;) It's all speculation, but at least the N+D=H speculation has a weirwood vision to back it up. You've got two names that kinda sorta sound alike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Creeping Knight Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Wouldn't surprise me if Hodor is a descendant from Dunk and him and Old Nan (however she may be related to Hodor) where sent North in hiding or even just to live peacefully. I have no reasons to think this, it's all speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greymoon Posted March 2, 2015 Author Share Posted March 2, 2015 Unless those genes came from Brienne's mother, who is dead, thus leaving us with one more descendant. I like this thread. Secret Umbers are way more fun than Secret Targs. Thanks ;) it's all in good fun anyway... Hodor's actual name is Walder so there's no connection between his name and Hother's. I'm not saying his name is Hother, or Hodor. Only that 'Walder' is mispronouncing 'Hother'. It's all speculation, but at least the N+D=H speculation has a weirwood vision to back it up. You've got two names that kinda sorta sound alike. As I've already said above, a child has two parents. Old Nan lived in Winterfell, her female descendants probably lived in Winterfell too, and Hodor was most likely raised at the place of his birth -- meaning he was born at Winterfell, so his mother probably lived at Winterfell. His father otoh, didn't need to 'live' at Winterfell, only to have been there, for a visit, at a particular time. Hodor's mother being a grand-daughter of Duncan, doesn't prevent Hodor's father from being Hother Umber, in any way or form. It's not just the names, it's Osha's remark that Hodor has 'giant blood'. The Umbers have a giant on their sigil, and are quite tall. So what if Duncan was tall too? he's obviously not the only one who ever traveled to Winterfell and was about seven feet tall. The average Umber seems to be about that size, too. And they live up north, are sworn to the Stark...A visit to their liege lord is not impossible, not even a stretch. I'd say, it is even expected. My reasoning is that's we've been looking and searching for the meaning of 'hodor', being puzzled about it, wanting it to be 'meaningful'....but what if it isn't meaningful? Why should every small detail be meaningful? 'Hodor' being a clue to the guy's parentage is the simplest answer there is to the question. Why look for complicated when there is a perfectly reasonable, simple answer to the mystery? Hodor had to have a father, yes? His father couldn't have been Duncan, just as his mother wasn't Old Nan. Old Nan is Hodor's great-grand-mother. So there is nothing in the Duncan theory that directly contradicts Hodor having Umber blood. Absolutely nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Hodor's giant stature comes from the coupling of his ancestors Old Nan and Duncan the Tall. It is known. It is not known. Hodor's giant stature comes from Old Nan who was wildling born and had giants blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Cold Fingers Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Unless those genes came from Brienne's mother, who is dead, thus leaving us with one more descendant. I like this thread. Secret Umbers are way more fun than Secret Targs. What if the Umbers are secretly Targaryens! Dun DUN DUUUNNN... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamnDirtyApe Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Look, sometimes a Hodor is just a Hodor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Cold Fingers Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Look, sometimes a Hodor is just a Hodor. While you may be correct...how does that discussion kill time until TWoW? Speculation helps pass the time. This helps too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamnDirtyApe Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 I realize that. I post crazy speculative stuff myself. But I feel pretty comfortable in speculating that neither Hodor nor the Umbers matter all that much any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Cold Fingers Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 I realize that. I post crazy speculative stuff myself. But I feel pretty comfortable in speculating that neither Hodor nor the Umbers matter all that much any more. That's what they want you to think... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greymoon Posted March 2, 2015 Author Share Posted March 2, 2015 Look, sometimes a Hodor is just a Hodor. I don't claim the theory was earth-shattering. I don't think it changes much of anything, it's just one of these small wink wink, that GRRM drops here and there...and why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Suburbs Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 House Clegane is also known to breed very large men. Their sigil is three dogs on a field of yellow, and the three sons are Gregor, Sandor and Hodor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fossoway Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 I am a secret Umber.. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Cold Fingers Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Tyrion "What is the name of the entrance to the brothel?" Hodor "Hodor". Tyrion "You see, he does have a sense of humor". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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