thelittledragonthatcould Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Renly was trying to get Margaery married to Robert, because he hated the Lannisters. How does that change Joffrey, Tommen and Mycrella being next in line. Even if he somehow got Robert to give up his marriage, which seems unlikely, to marry a 14 year old girl he has never met that still does not change who the Kings heir is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I cannot understand why Robert should had done anything against his more powerful ally for something that sooner or later had to be done. The children had to die there was no other way and Tywin acted before Robert had any power over him. Robert had no way or actually saving the children so why crying over spilled milk? Why Robert should had punish crimes that happened before he took the Throne? If he should had punished Gregon was he supposed to have punished everyone for every crime that have ever be done before he became the King? By doing that he's practically spitting on the Martells seeing as Lewyn, Elia, Rhaenys and Aegon all died because of Robert That is totally and utterly wrong. We have seen that the Dornishmen have nothing against Robert. So for them Robert have done nothing wrong. Tywin is to blame for the children not the Baratheons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 That is totally and utterly wrong. We have seen that the Dornishmen have nothing against Robert. So for them Robert have done nothing wrong. Tywin is to blame for the children not the Baratheons. No, we haven't. We dont know what they thought of Robert when he was alive, as we were only introduced to the Dornish a year or so after he was dead. The fact the Doran was trying to replace Robert and didn't support either of his brothers against Joffrey/Tywin does not really add credence to the idea that they had nothing against Robert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 No, we haven't. We dont know what they thought of Robert when he was alive, as we were only introduced to the Dornish a year or so after he was dead. The fact the Doran was trying to replace Robert and didn't support either of his brothers against Joffrey/Tywin does not really add credence to the idea that they had nothing against Robert. Yet we have seen Dornish after Tywin's death and we have seen that they effing hate him even if he is dead. If they hated Robert why they never mentioned it at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balerion the kitten Posted March 5, 2015 Author Share Posted March 5, 2015 That is totally and utterly wrong. We have seen that the Dornishmen have nothing against Robert. So for them Robert have done nothing wrong. Tywin is to blame for the children not the Baratheons.No this is totally and utterly wrong. Oberyn tried to raise dorne for viserys, yeah I'm sure he had nothing against Robert. Robert then married the daughter of the man who ordered their nephew and niece's deaths, and VERY likely Elia's. We know full well the martells weren't fooled over what happened that night. And why would they be cool and chilled out when aegon their nephew was supposed to sit the throne but Robert came and said "no it's mine and I'm not only going to forgive the killers I'm going to reward them, but here's some bones". And if you remember in AGOT Robert said their were still people who whispered usurper behind his back and would gladly stab a knife in his and his children's backs. Can't think who that would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 No this is totally and utterly wrong. Oberyn tried to raise dorne for viserys, yeah I'm sure he had nothing against Robert. Robert then married the daughter of the man who ordered their nephew and niece's deaths, and VERY likely Elia's. We know full well the martells weren't fooled over what happened that night. And why would they be cool and chilled out when aegon their nephew was supposed to sit the throne but Robert came and said "no it's mine and I'm not only going to forgive the killers, I'm going to reward them but here's some bones". And if you remember in AGOT Robert said their were still people who whispered usurper behind his back and would gladly stab a knife in his and his children's backs. Can't think who that would be. Sorry but no. We have Dornish PoVs and what we see in them? That the Dornish blame the Lannisters and Tywin. There is no one blaming Robert for what happened to Elia, something that would be stupid btw since he had no power over Gregor. Every Martell and Sand we have seen so far are against Tywin. If they hate Robert why they never mentioned it? If they thought Robert as an usurper why they never mentioned it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A spoon of knife and fork Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I cannot understand why Robert should had done anything against his more powerful ally for something that sooner or later had to be done. The children had to die there was no other way and Tywin acted before Robert had any power over him. Robert had no way or actually saving the children so why crying over spilled milk? Why Robert should had punish crimes that happened before he took the Throne? If he should had punished Gregon was he supposed to have punished everyone for every crime that have ever be done before he became the King? It was a war crime committed in his name. So it was his crime to punish, even if he hadn't taken the throne yet. Even if you ignore the kids deaths RAPING Elia fucking Martell is obviously a crime. It was political idiocy because robert blamed Elia by proxy for Rhaegars actions.Also it is BS that jt "had to be done" with the kids .As many have pointed out in this thread, there were other options. The wall, maesterhood, for Aegon, silent sisters for Rhaenys, or marry her to renly or Stannis. Finally, the rebels ruling through baby Aegon is another option. Everyone would be on board with this opition except Tywin and robert, IMO. That is totally and utterly wrong. We have seen that the Dornishmen have nothing against Robert. So for them Robert have done nothing wrong. Tywin is to blame for the children not the Baratheons.Doran was plotting to overthrow robert from the start, as was oberyn. Try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Storm Reborn Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 No this is totally and utterly wrong. Oberyn tried to raise dorne for viserys, yeah I'm sure he had nothing against Robert. Robert then married the daughter of the man who ordered their nephew and niece's deaths, and VERY likely Elia's. We know full well the martells weren't fooled over what happened that night. And why would they be cool and chilled out when aegon their nephew was supposed to sit the throne but Robert came and said "no it's mine". And if you remember in AGOT Robert said their were still people who whispered usurper behind his back and would gladly stab a knife in his and his children's backs. Can't think who that would be. It´s understandable the Martell´s lack of love for Robert, but hate?? Robert didn´t go for the IT thinking it was his, the Targ Monarch asked for his head, should he get the IT after killing Aerys then give it to Aegon? bad idea... should he chop his own head and give it to Aerys? even worse an idea... Dorne hated Robert? If they did, it was for the 10,000 Dornish who lost their lives fighting him, if they were such victims they should have taken their army to KL to rescue Elia and the children instead of giving in to Aerys... in the end she and the kids died anyway... and they hate the guy who they sent an army against to kill... (their hatred towards Tywin is fair, but Bob? no...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Doran was plotting to overthrow robert from the start, as was oberyn. Try again. Really did they? Then why they only made their move after Tywin's grandson took the throne? It was a war crime committed in his name. So it was his crime to punish, even if he hadn't taken the throne yet. Even if you ignore the kids deaths RAPING Elia fucking Martell is obviously a crime. It was political idiocy because robert blamed Elia by proxy for Rhaegars actions. :bs: No one does it. No one in ASOIAF has ever done it. Heck Dany who so call does it commits genocide. If they started to do that why not punishing Ned and Jon for what their men did during the war? Why caring for Rhaegar's children aka enemies and not for the children the Rebels killed?I don't know maybe because it doesn't effing make any sense at all? Also it is BS that jt "had to be done" with the kids .As many have pointed out in this thread, there were other options. The wall, maesterhood, for Aegon, silent sisters for Rhaenys, or marry her to renly or Stannis. That is just siply dreaming that people live in a word where there are no politicians and no conspiracy. Rhaegar's children were dead when the war started. If Tywin hadn't done it then Aerys would had done it. They were more dead than Ned. Finally, the rebels ruling through baby Aegon is another option. Everyone would be on board with this opition except Tywin and robert, IMO. You are right you IYO, no one in their right mind would had been ok with that. You don't start a Rebellion just to replace a Tyrant with another member of his family. That is a fairytale. What we have seen from the POVs and not from what we would like to happen in a perfect fairy tale word is that Dorne didn't hated Robert, they hated Tywin and his family. They never ever said anything against Robert in their PoVs. But lets guess who they do blame for what happen. I don't know maybe the Lannisters? If they hated Robert why they never mentioned it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Ancalagon Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Jon was cult so was Ned. So they should know the last time you tried to send a enemies like that to the Wall, his allies would free him and your dynasty would be in danger for a couple hundred years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Really did they? Then why they only made their move after Tywin's grandson took the throne? They had not been invited to Kings Landing till then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 They had not been invited to Kings Landing till then. Because in order to create chaos or fight someone or even say that you hate him you should have been invited to his home? :bang: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Because in order to create chaos or fight someone or even say that you hate him you should have been invited to his home? :bang: What did they actually do? When have they created chaos? When have they fought someone without a Lannister asking them to do so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 What did they actually do? When have they created chaos? When have they fought someone without a Lannister asking them to do so? Attack the one they blame. No one of the Dornish have expressed any kind of hate towards Robert and they only act after Robert dies and against someone who is a Lannister. Why is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryanfury Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Because it was never proven that Gregor was the one who killed Elia and Aegon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Attack the one they blame. No one of the Dornish have expressed any kind of hate towards Robert and they only act after Robert dies and against someone who is a Lannister. Why is that? It was a trial by combat. It was agreed upon, it was not an attack but something legally sanctioned by Tywin and his Small Council. They have done very, very little. They could have sent troops to join Renly in fighting Joffrey and his grandad Tywin and they instead chose to sit it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFDanny Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 It´s understandable the Martell´s lack of love for Robert, but hate?? Robert didn´t go for the IT thinking it was his, the Targ Monarch asked for his head, should he get the IT after killing Aerys then give it to Aegon? bad idea... should he chop his own head and give it to Aerys? even worse an idea... Dorne hated Robert? If they did, it was for the 10,000 Dornish who lost their lives fighting him, if they were such victims they should have taken their army to KL to rescue Elia and the children instead of giving in to Aerys... in the end she and the kids died anyway... and they hate the guy who they sent an army against to kill... (their hatred towards Tywin is fair, but Bob? no...) Robert takes the Iron Throne from not only Rhaegar, and Rhaegar's heir, but from Elia's son - the Prince of Dorne's nephew. Dorne had made an alliance with Aerys and received in return the prospect of a Dornishmen sitting as the King of Westeros. Robert took all of that away when he proclaims his own right to the throne over all others. The Dornish reaction may not have been hate from Prince Doran for Robert personally, but it was certainly a view of Robert as a major political enemy. Nor did they agree to Robert's claim until well after the war was over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 It was a trial by combat. It was agreed upon, it was not an attack but something legally sanctioned by Tywin and his Small Council. They have done very, very little. They could have sent troops to join Renly in fighting Joffrey and his grandad Tywin and they instead chose to sit it out. Am I the only one who have read about how much the Martells hate Tywin Lannister when they say nothing of Robert in their PoVs? . Robert took all of that away when he proclaims his own right to the throne over all others. Never hapenned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Attack the one they blame. No one of the Dornish have expressed any kind of hate towards Robert and they only act after Robert dies and against someone who is a Lannister. Why is that?The realm was under the appearance of unity for most of Robert's reign, there is a five faction civil war throughout most of Joffrey's, even still they do almost nothing during the chaos. They clearly hate Tywin more but I am sure they don't just give Robert a pass since it was rather obvious he approved of Tywin's actions. Robert himself seems to think they don't like him, he sends Jon to negotiate and I think he never sets foot in Dorne throughout his reign.Also Joffrey is a Baratheon in name, I can't remember if the Martells ever voice their opinion on Stannis' letter but I suppose it would be irrelevant to them anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Am I the only one who have read about how much the Martells hate Tywin Lannister when they say nothing of Robert in their PoVs? Robert has been dead for two years before we get a Martell POV. I bet they were pissed with Rhaegar and Aerys as well, but we never hear about it as they have been long dead. Oberyn Martell has just been killed by Gregor, infront of Tywin, this is fresh in their memories. This is why they are currently furious. Now while I dont deny that they hated Tywin more than Robert, just like they hated Gregor more than Tywin they still hated all three men and Doran was working on their downfall(at glacier pace). Robert has been killed, his legacy destroyed by his brothers and 'sons'. Why would they carry on hating 2 years after his death? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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