Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Not vacumn, not emptiness, nothing? No matter, no time, nothing. Can nothing exist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 you knock off early and bust out the absinthe today, scot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 2, 2015 Author Share Posted March 2, 2015 Nope, I'm reading Jim Holt's book Why Does The World Exist. The first question he tackles is the possiblity for "nothing" and in the face of Ockam's Razor why something exists rather than nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kikajon Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Could we draw a parallel with zero?In terms of numbers it is a nothing. If you add it to another number "nothing" happens. So "nothing" is something that exist, at least in our mind when we think of the outcome of that operation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 2, 2015 Author Share Posted March 2, 2015 Kikajon,Yup, that's the problem. How can an absence of everything exist? Our establishment of the possiblity of nothing's existence presupposes a perception of nothing. If it is perceived something exists. The only way to perceive nothing would be to be outside the sphere of nothingness and thereby estalish that "something" does exist. If nothing can't be does that mean our universe is, necessarily, infinite in time and space? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castel Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Nope, I'm reading Jim Holt's book Why Does The World Exist. The first question he tackles is the possiblity for "nothing" and in the face of Ockam's Razor why something exists rather than nothing. The minute I saw the thread title I was reminded that I never did quite finish that book... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB. Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 No, but we should pretend that it does, to be polite... orYes, but we should pretend that it does not, to be polite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 The obvious answer is that it certainly can and does. In fact that's usually what's going on in my mind around late afternoon on any given day. you knock off early and bust out the absinthe today, scot? When I saw the thread title, I assumed the author was either Scot, Sci or WS. eta:don't most creation myths start out with In the beginning there was nothing. And then from the void sprang a turtle. Something something about turtles all the way down. kowabunga! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 2, 2015 Author Share Posted March 2, 2015 Larry,Abstraction and abstract thought are fun. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arataniello Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 At a very simplistic level, nothing cannot exist - the number zero is not a "natural number". However, all human logic and philosophy is based on our own relative perception of the "universe", which is not complete (our perception that is, not the universe). So it is entirely possible that there is something outside our universe, which FROM our perspective is 'nothing', but from a perspective external perspective is 'something'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The guy from the Vale Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 You might want to read Sartre, Scott. "Being and Nothingness" is one way of thinking about those questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weeping Sore Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Physicists have established that the vacuum of space is not nothing, both because of far-flung particles and the field of quantum potentiality*. But can we say that beyond the expanding membrane of space-time that started with the Big Bang there is nothing? Well, there is not anything beyond that capable of interacting with the universe as we know it. Trying to solicit proof of the positive existence of nothing is probably a fool's** errand... *Buddhism calls this potentiality "emptiness" which is explicitly not "nothingness" **coincidentally The Fool's number is zero in the Tarot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seli Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Within the boundaries of our universe, no not really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weeping Sore Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Couldn't we posit the "existence" of smaller-than-planck-length nothings? After all, a nothing could be smaller than anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seli Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Couldn't we posit the "existence" of smaller-than-planck-length nothings? After all, a nothing could be smaller than anything. I don't think so, assuming heisenberg holds down to those scales. Although the universe might get complicated at those scales anyway, isn't that where some models assume the missing dimensions are hiding away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weeping Sore Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 I don't think so, assuming heisenberg holds down to those scales. Although the universe might get complicated at those scales anyway, isn't that where some models assume the missing dimensions are hiding away? It's another literally unknowable place to put nothing; so not much different than saying "beyond space-time" But, yes to your second question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas! Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 You might want to read Sartre, Scott. "Being and Nothingness" is one way of thinking about those questions.Or the Tao te Ching? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altherion Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Is it possible? Sure, why not. Imagine a multiverse and suppose that there are holes in its topology. That is, there are regions outside of universes where there is neither time nor space nor any particles nor fields. Some multiverse models have such regions and since these things an nigh-unfalsifiable with our current technology, we can't say that they're wrong. So it's possible, but I wouldn't bet money on it and even if they exist, you're not likely to interact with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gears of the Beast Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Asking whether or not nothing can exist and whether or not our universe could have come from nothing are two completely different questions. It's kind of difficult to talk about things being possible before our universe because all our physical laws come into existence with our universe, they don't apply to stuff that isn't our universe. Believe it or not there are limits to what humans can figure out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weeping Sore Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 ...there are regions outside of universes where there is neither time nor space...The being verb in the present tense requires Time and the idea of "regions" requires Space. Maybe we should say that nothingness exists as a potentiality alongside somethingness, with everything existing and not existing simultaneously.So there is a provisional, but not absolute nothingness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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