Seaworth'sShipmate Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Now that Khal Drogo died, we know it is not him, or the son he and Danerys were to have. But who is it or who will it be? Need it necessarily be a Dothraki? Any possible candidates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 For me it is Dany... The reaction of Dosh Khaleen, Dany's unfinished job with Dothraki, her and Drogon most likely being involved with them... It's her, IMO. Or, to be more precise, they will believe it is her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 It's either Daenerys or a whatif about her son, if he had lived. A prophecy can be wrong. I can also buy the later because of the way he perished, via blood magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Maid Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I think is Dany, I realize that in one of her fever dreams after she lost Rhaego. I don't have the exact quote but Dany saw the dark armour Rhaego was wearing in her previous dream and she lifted his visor and she saw herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Now that Khal Drogo died, we know it is not him, or the son he and Danerys were to have. But who is it or who will it be? Need it necessarily be a Dothraki? Any possible candidates?Daenerys had three children, and in addition to her silver, she mounts a dragon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I think is Dany, I realize that in one of her fever dreams after she lost Rhaego. I don't have the exact quote but Dany saw the dark armour Rhaego was wearing in her previous dream and she lifted his visor and she saw herself. That was Rhaegar. But yes, Dany is going to named the SWMTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bastard of Walton Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Dothraki mumbo jumbo! The ravings of savages.... Now AA & TPTWP or the Last Hero, Clearly going to happen!Really though I think Mladen covered it nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnmaskedLurker Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 It's either Daenerys or a whatif about her son, if he had lived. A prophecy can be wrong. I can also buy the later because of the way he perished, via blood magic. I don't think that a prophesy simply can be "wrong" but maybe your suggestion that a prophesy can be avoided by powerful "blood magic" is correct. On the other hand, I cannot think of a prophesy in literature that failed to come to pass. So more likely, Dany is TSWMTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodWood Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Did the Dosh Kaleen really have a vision, or just making a best guess? Drogo was a very powerful Khal after all, and Dany had the makings of a powerful queen. The thing about prophecy is that it's not guaranteed, it's just enlightened prediction. Ultimately what happens is up to the characters and the choices they make. Dany could have chosen to let her husband go, and been satisfied knowing that he would live on in their son. But she doesn't, and so changes the historical outcome that sets her on the path she has taken so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnmaskedLurker Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Did the Dosh Kaleen really have a vision, or just making a best guess? Drogo was a very powerful Khal after all, and Dany had the makings of a powerful queen. The thing about prophecy is that it's not guaranteed, it's just enlightened prediction. Ultimately what happens is up to the characters and the choices they make. Dany could have chosen to let her husband go, and been satisfied knowing that he would live on in their son. But she doesn't, and so changes the historical outcome that sets her on the path she has taken so far. Did the Dosh Kaleen really have a vision, or just making a best guess? Drogo was a very powerful Khal after all, and Dany had the makings of a powerful queen. The thing about prophecy is that it's not guaranteed, it's just enlightened prediction. Ultimately what happens is up to the characters and the choices they make. Dany could have chosen to let her husband go, and been satisfied knowing that he would live on in their son. But she doesn't, and so changes the historical outcome that sets her on the path she has taken so far. I strongly disagree with the bolded language. I cannot recall ever coming across a prophecy in literature that was just a prediction that was not guaranteed. They always come true. They are "divinely" inspired. Some mystical source (a god or some other power) has given a vision to someone. This vision is a vision of the future. It will come true. It is not really a prediction -- it is a vision of the future from a power that knows what will happen in the future. Now very often the prophecy ends up being a "self-fulfilling prophecy" in which the attempt to avoid the prophecy is the ultimate cause of the prophecy coming to pass (think Oedipus Rex as the classic example). But in some way, shape or form, the prophecy always happens. Now, at one point, I thought GRRM might be going a different way in which he suggests that powerful blood magic can change the course of history and avoid a prophecy. But then I changed my mind and realized that authors don't do that. I just have never seen it -- and I think it is for a good reason. The point of putting in a prophecy is to keep the audience guessing and perhaps make them think it is one thing when it is really another. So GRRM makes readers think the prophecy of Rhaego as TSWMTW is avoided by his death -- when in fact ultimately Dany will fulfill the prophecy. That is how prophecy in literature works. How it will come to pass is not guaranteed -- but it is guaranteed that it will come to pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I find the argument that TSWMTW is Dany is be a good one.But, if this is the case, I do wonder what the readers' reaction would be to Dany leaving piles of heads and blazing cities in her wake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnmaskedLurker Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I find the argument that TSWMTW is Dany is be a good one.But, if this is the case, I do wonder what the readers' reaction would be to Dany leaving piles of heads and blazing cities in her wake.Arguably, she already has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Arguably, she already has.Not deliberately.TSWMTW is the Dothraki Genghis Khan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnmaskedLurker Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Not deliberately.TSWMTW is the Dothraki Genghis Khan.I think you are confusing what the prophecy says with how people in the series interpret the prophecy. The way that I understand that GRRM uses prophecy is that characters rarely interpret them correctly -- but they will come to pass. So we need the actual words of the prophecy. I don't know that we have them but I think you are referencing what MMD after the death of Rhaego: The stallion who mounts the world will burn no cities now. His khalasar shall trample no nations into dust. Based on this quote, I suspect that original stated that TSWMTW will burn cities and trample nations to dust. The prophecy never says that the stallion will do these things intentionally or will be evil. No -- just powerful. The other quote I could find on TSWMTW is as follows: As swift as the wind he rides, and behind him his khalasar covers the earth, men without number, with arakhs shining in their hands like blades of razor grass. Fierce as a storm this prince will be. His enemies will tremble before him, and their wives will weep tears of blood and rend their flesh in grief. The bells in his hair will sing his coming, and the milk men in the stone tents will fear his name. The prince is riding, and he shall be the stallion who mounts the world. Based on this quote, we know that the stallion will be powerful and feared. But again, this quote does not indicate evil or deliberately causing death and destruction. Just don't stand in the stallion's way or you will be sorry is the message I get. Now, IIRC, Dany did indicate at the end of DwD that she will be more true to her family motto of blood and fire. So I suspect more death and destruction are coming. But I was merely trying to make a point about interpreting prophecies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I think you are confusing what the prophecy says with how people in the series interpret the prophecy. The way that I understand that GRRM uses prophecy is that characters rarely interpret them correctly -- but they will come to pass. So we need the actual words of the prophecy. I don't know that we have them but I think you are referencing what MMD after the death of Rhaego: The stallion who mounts the world will burn no cities now. His khalasar shall trample no nations into dust. Based on this quote, I suspect that original stated that TSWMTW will burn cities and trample nations to dust. The prophecy never says that the stallion will do these things intentionally or will be evil. No -- just powerful. The other quote I could find on TSWMTW is as follows: As swift as the wind he rides, and behind him his khalasar covers the earth, men without number, with arakhs shining in their hands like blades of razor grass. Fierce as a storm this prince will be. His enemies will tremble before him, and their wives will weep tears of blood and rend their flesh in grief. The bells in his hair will sing his coming, and the milk men in the stone tents will fear his name. The prince is riding, and he shall be the stallion who mounts the world. Based on this quote, we know that the stallion will be powerful and feared. But again, this quote does not indicate evil or deliberately causing death and destruction. Just don't stand in the stallion's way or you will be sorry is the message I get. Now, IIRC, Dany did indicate at the end of DwD that she will be more true to her family motto of blood and fire. So I suspect more death and destruction are coming. But I was merely trying to make a point about interpreting prophecies.I don't think that TSWMTW needs to be someone who takes delight in other peoples' suffering; nor to be someone who is utterly selfish and callous.But, I think it's clear that any great conqueror will inflict great suffering on their enemies, and be both loved by their followers, and hated by their enemies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Maid Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I think Dany is on her way to fulfil the prophecy of «The Stallion that mounts the world»:- She will unite a lot of Khalassars with the help of Drogon.- She will cement her conquer of the Slaver's Cities.So IMO she is fulfilling the part that says that the STMTW will unite all the Khalasars and that he will be a great conqueror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysfan Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Prophecies are like a half trained mule! I think blood magic could change the future (ie: the prophecies or visions whatever you want to call them) especially as the only exact and precise prophecies seem to come from the frogs blood magic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysfan Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Although of course "the world" could just be Essos as well considering the Dothraki don't cross the sea and even if they went to westeros we know that's not the whole world and we aren't going to see sothyros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnmaskedLurker Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Prophecies are like a half trained mule! I think blood magic could change the future (ie: the prophecies or visions whatever you want to call them) especially as the only exact and precise prophecies seem to come from the frogs blood magic! The quote about the half-trained mule supports the argument that prophecies will come true -- not the argument that some force may stop them from happening. What that quote is about is basically the observation that people who hear the prophecy invariably misinterpret the prophecy and engage in behavior that is against their own interest but will not stop the prophecy from happening. In the end the prophecy typically is only useful to the reader. The characters are almost always led astray by them -- by trying to interpret them or avoid them (the self-fulfilling prophecy). But they are never avoided. After the fact, the readers can figure out how the prophecy ended up coming true. The frog may be the only prophecies that have some specificity (although we still don't know who is the valonqar or the more beautiful queen). But the other prophecies will happen in some form. TPTWP will win the Battle for the Dawn 2.0. TSWMTW will arise and become a great and feared leader of the Dothraki. Dany will have her three loves, three mounts, three betrayals, etc. (or whatever that prophecy was -- cannot remember the details). Attempts to interpret and act on an understanding of a prophecy is likely to backfire (the mule comment), but the prophecy will happen. That is what is mean to be a prophecy in literature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysfan Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Yea sorry I wasn't trying to link the mule with blood magic just started my comment with that as I think it's apt to every prophecy, as all can be interpreted in different ways if only slightly but still make a big difference. For example what encompasses the "world" the stallion will mount, will presuming it means more than essos actually lead to the dothrakis demise, will presuming the more beautiful queen is Margery fulfill the prophecy by making Cersei miss what the real danger is!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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